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Old
12-04-2006, 09:50 PM
  #26
hototogisu
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
If I'm Gainey I try to get a centre in return for him to play with Sammy and Higgins, move Plekanec back to the 4th line with Begin and Murray/Downey.
For sure, Kovalev for a number 2 center would suit me fine. Heck I'd even be in favor of letting Kostitsyn play on the second so we can keep Higgins on the first.

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Old
12-05-2006, 01:17 PM
  #27
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hilo

We don't have a second or fourth line they exist in numbers only.If we don't get a 2nd line center we won't make the playoffs .You won go gar on make shift lines what do the players in hamilton think of using a defenceman up front all the time, crap i guess.


Last edited by laubelroc: 12-05-2006 at 04:06 PM.
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Old
12-05-2006, 01:30 PM
  #28
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I cant believe that were still using a d man up forward .Have we got a farm system with some forwads playing .This dont say much for our prospects noone worth trying up front .

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12-05-2006, 01:42 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
For sure, Kovalev for a number 2 center would suit me fine. Heck I'd even be in favor of letting Kostitsyn play on the second so we can keep Higgins on the first.
Kovy for Forsberg ?

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Old
12-05-2006, 01:51 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by !nkubus View Post
Kovy for Forsberg ?

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Old
12-05-2006, 03:09 PM
  #31
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Kovalev isn't going anywhere... he's not getting traded.

At any rate, I also think we should go with putting Kovalev with Koivu. I don't see how trying it out for a few games would hurt so much. Heck, why not try Samsonov-Koivu-Kovalev for a few games. I think we have enough secondary scoring to support that line and maybe the three of them would click?

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Old
12-05-2006, 03:16 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by greatlakeshab View Post
I now consider Perez-Bonk-Johnson the second line.
they have as many goals (1 more in fact) as the "official 2nd line" while shutting down the opponent top line...

they are our 2nd.

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Old
12-05-2006, 04:01 PM
  #33
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Last game's forward lineup

Latendresse-Koivu-Ryder
Samsonov-Plekanec-Kovalev
Johnsson-Bonk-Perezhogin
Streit-Bégin-Murray

Plekanec belongs on the fourth line unless it's for key faceoffs, and that way, Bégin at wing is much more effective. As for the problem with offensive lines, I believe the habs are double shifting the wrong guy in Kovalev, because it's Koivu's drive and talent that's lacking on that second line. I think we can all agree that it's not wise to use Koivu 23 minutes a game, as we want him to be in great shape for the playoffs, and for that reason, it's obvious we need to fix this issue quickly and trade for a good center.

That center doesn't have to be big, mind you. What's important is his ability to put the puck in the net, if he's to paly between Samsonov and Kovalev. All our centers are playmakers with, at best, average scoring ability. I don't want to sound lame but Yannick Perreault, with all his flaws, would have been very effective in that role. He is much more of a scorer than a playmaker.

I think we can all agree that the Habs are still lacking some key players to become an elite, flawless team. Logic says the habs and similar contending teams in the league have some issues somewhere in their lineup, yet still manage to win.

The Montreal Canadiens are a defensive team first, but that's not news. They probably have the best defensive system in the league. Most people would argue that the Habs 3 pairs of Dman is inferior to Calgary's or Ottawa's. The truth is, a defensive system is as good as the devotion the forwards have for it.

Our dmans really aren't as good as our team's GA would lead us to believe.

And the Habs are systematic. This is the reason why special teams have been excellent and even strenght has not. The Habs PP and PK runs exactly the same way, whoever Carbo puts on the ice. At even strenght, they run the same system over and over again. Overall, it is effective, but it lacks creativity, and gives the other team a chance to adjust during the game, especially at even strenght.

Buffalo acquired some key players in the last few years, and now enjoy extreme success with a similar mentality.

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Old
12-05-2006, 04:20 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
If I'm Gainey I try to get a centre in return for him to play with Sammy and Higgins, move Plekanec back to the 4th line with Begin and Murray/Downey.

Why would you want to move Plekanec back to the fourth line. Night after night he and Perezhogin have shown a tremendous amount of hustle?

Trading Souray NOW would just be PLAIN STUPID too.

We are a -20 something 5 on 5, the only way we score is on the PP and you want to kill that too!!!!

We don't need a second line center right now, what we need is a more friggin effort from the two Russian wingers in all three zones!!!

Once Higgins comes back, maybe he or Lats moves onto that line and you can move Sergey "I can stickhandle, but I can't finish" Samsanov!!!

Geez... trading Souray now who leads the team with 10 goals... trading Ryder... what the hell are you people smoking, we have trouble scoring now and you want us to mail in the rest of the season!!

How do you know what we get in return won't have trouble adjusting to our system and we could end up with another Samsanov!!!

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Old
12-05-2006, 04:21 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !nkubus View Post
Kovy for Forsberg ?
Ummmm...NO... at least Kovy is IN the lineup!!!

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Old
12-05-2006, 04:24 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by laubelroc View Post
I cant believe that were still using a d man up forward .Have we got a farm system with some forwads playing .This dont say much for our prospects noone worth trying up front .

Gotta agree with you on that one...

So far we have had

Begin--Murray---Dandy
Begin--Murray---Downey
Begin---Murray--Streit


How about

Begin---Lappy---Kots (with a decent amount of ice time!)

when Higgins is back

Higgins---koivu---Ryder
Lats---Plekanec---Kovy
Perezhogin---Bonk--Johnson
Samsanov---Lappy---Begin (two energy guys may give Sammy more room)

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Old
12-05-2006, 05:12 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
The problem on the second line is Kovalev.
5 on 5 I would even say he's the worst forward of the first 3 lines.

Probably the most talented but the less effective...

Kovalev is now a PP specialist.
I hate to let facts get in the way of a good story, but this is just ridiculously wrong. Kovalev? The worst forward on the whole team 5 on 5?

Guess who leads the team in even-strength points. If you said Garth Murray, wrong. Alex Kovalev. Guess who's tied with Kovalev? Koivu, yes. But guess who else is tied with those two? Sergei Samsonov.

Kovy, Sammy and Saku each have 11 even-strength points, which leads the team. So if you honestly want to claim that Kovalev isn't producing, or is ineffective 5 on 5, fine. But you also better complain about Koivu, Ryder, and everyone else.

I know it's trendy and popular to blame the one-game losing streak, the 13-year Stanley Cup drought, global warming, and the upcoming plague of locusts on the Kovalev-Samsonov duo, and it's easy to say the 2nd line sucks. But that's plain wrong. Sure it could maybe be improved, but they're producing better than anyone else 5-on-5.

And before someone jumps in with the plus-minus, let me just say that a Muller-Carbonneau-Jarvis line would have been minus-3 last night with the same uncharacteristically awful goaltending by Huet and the ridiculous Brisebois-like turnover coughed up by Bouillon.

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Old
12-05-2006, 05:26 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by gc2005 View Post
I hate to let facts get in the way of a good story, but this is just ridiculously wrong. Kovalev? The worst forward on the whole team 5 on 5?

Guess who leads the team in even-strength points. If you said Garth Murray, wrong. Alex Kovalev. Guess who's tied with Kovalev? Koivu, yes. But guess who else is tied with those two? Sergei Samsonov.

Kovy, Sammy and Saku each have 11 even-strength points, which leads the team. So if you honestly want to claim that Kovalev isn't producing, or is ineffective 5 on 5, fine. But you also better complain about Koivu, Ryder, and everyone else.

I know it's trendy and popular to blame the one-game losing streak, the 13-year Stanley Cup drought, global warming, and the upcoming plague of locusts on the Kovalev-Samsonov duo, and it's easy to say the 2nd line sucks. But that's plain wrong. Sure it could maybe be improved, but they're producing better than anyone else 5-on-5.

And before someone jumps in with the plus-minus, let me just say that a Muller-Carbonneau-Jarvis line would have been minus-3 last night with the same uncharacteristically awful goaltending by Huet and the ridiculous Brisebois-like turnover coughed up by Bouillon.
Amen !


Kovalev is 2-5-7 in his last 7 games.


Souray on PP rack up goals because we always make pass to the point. Souray is awful in his own, he log more then 20 minutes but he's very bad each time.


Anyway, we always like to bash high paid players but when they're PPG last 7 games ? Sound stupid.

7-12-19 in 26GP (7 posts in regulation time + 2 on shootout)

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Old
12-06-2006, 09:02 PM
  #39
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Best Lines Again Tonight!

Keep It Up Guy!

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Old
12-07-2006, 09:48 AM
  #40
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I understand not wanting to Change the 1st and 3rd but.....

It is not like the moment they are seperated that they woould lose there chemistry forever, I mean change the lines up and see what happens. If the new combos dont work then put them back. I am not understanding the thick headedness of the coaching staffs in keeping Kpvy and Sammy together... It is not working so change the lines and see what gives. Yes that means breaking up the 1 and 3 line but the can always be put back later.

Habman

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Old
12-07-2006, 09:52 AM
  #41
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Do you not see the 15 billion other threads about this on the first page?:

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Old
12-07-2006, 10:03 AM
  #42
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I have mixed feelings on this issue.

I am very frustrated with the lack of production coming from the second line. While I do commend the patience of the coaching staff for "sticking with them", I feel that some line changes may be necessary. That being said, I would wait until Higgins gets back (~ week or so). If they haven't started clicking by then some changes will happen (they'll happen anyway getting him back in the lineup). Getting Higgins back healthy just gives this team a lot of options.

How about:

Latendresse - Koivu - Kovalev
Samsanov - Higgins - Ryder
Perezhogin - Bonk - Johnson
Begin - Plekanec - Streit

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Old
12-07-2006, 10:07 AM
  #43
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The fact is that Samsonov isn't happy, he used to be an important player on his team, the kind of guy you put on the ice when you need a goal and that plays a lot of power play and I don't think he ever had his chance here in Montreal, no power play time, 11-12min a game almost all on 5v5 and with all the penalty that the team is taking he can sit on the bench for like 5-6min + the 2min publicity...

Plus Kovy isn't happy either, I heard that on the road, he's eating in his room instead of going out with other guys, he's always alone, he almost never talk to anyone...

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Old
12-07-2006, 10:11 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ppil View Post
The fact is that Samsonov isn't happy, he used to be an important player on his team, the kind of guy you put on the ice when you need a goal and that plays a lot of power play and I don't think he ever had his chance here in Montreal, no power play time, 11-12min a game almost all on 5v5 and with all the penalty that the team is taking he can sit on the bench for like 5-6min + the 2min publicity...

Plus Kovy isn't happy either, I heard that on the road, he's eating in his room instead of going out with other guys, he's always alone, he almost never talk to anyone...

and where did you heard that ?

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Old
12-07-2006, 10:14 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Habman View Post
It is not like the moment they are seperated that they woould lose there chemistry forever, I mean change the lines up and see what happens. If the new combos dont work then put them back. I am not understanding the thick headedness of the coaching staffs in keeping Kpvy and Sammy together... It is not working so change the lines and see what gives. Yes that means breaking up the 1 and 3 line but the can always be put back later.

Habman

it is getting stupid... at least try something different, there are options

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Old
12-07-2006, 10:14 AM
  #46
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With their supposed talent the Kovalev/Samsonov line should be leading this team. Praising them because they're tied with Koivu on even strength points is an attempt to whitewash their lack of contribution. How many games have we seen where the Koivu and Bonk lines provide points and Kovalev and Samsonov could barely manage to get the puck into the offensive zone let alone get a point? Implying that Kovalev and Samsonov contribute the same as Koivu is just plain ridiculous. Is it Koivu's fault Ryder is in a slump or that his other winger is 19 years old? If you really blame Plekanec for the lines' problems then that blame should be put where it belongs, on Gainey.

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Old
12-07-2006, 10:14 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big_habs_fan View Post
I have mixed feelings on this issue.

I am very frustrated with the lack of production coming from the second line. While I do commend the patience of the coaching staff for "sticking with them", I feel that some line changes may be necessary. That being said, I would wait until Higgins gets back (~ week or so). If they haven't started clicking by then some changes will happen (they'll happen anyway getting him back in the lineup). Getting Higgins back healthy just gives this team a lot of options.

How about:

Latendresse - Koivu - Kovalev
Samsanov - Higgins - Ryder
Perezhogin - Bonk - Johnson
Begin - Plekanec - Streit
I am loving that, the looks of that lineup make me drool lol

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Old
12-07-2006, 10:34 AM
  #48
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Carbo has some difficult decisions to make in the short term. I am willing to bet Gainey is waiting another 4-6 weeks to be 100% certain of what he has and then will move accordingly. To me, what is clear is that Samsonov looks slow and uninterested at the moment, and so does Kovalev. Kovy is battling a knee problem, though, I believe. The chemistry on that line is awful and something needs to be done. But, I don't believe all is lost with Samsonov. If it was me, I'd actually give him some PP time. Sometimes, all it takes is 1 goal to get a player going again. The Habs also need a better fourth line.

When Higgins returns, there are 2 options...put him back on line 1 or move him to line 2. Then, there is a domino effect. My preference is to put him back on line 1 because of how well that line played early in the season but this then moves Latendresse to lines 2 or 4, which I think will really limit Gui's effectiveness. So, by default, especially since Higgins can play anywhere, I would try him on the second line. Thereby, Pleks moves to line 4. While Higgins would play centre (which is what he played when he was drafted), I think Kovalev would still handle a lot of the "offensive" responsibilities of a centre (carrying the puck etc) while Higgins would handle the "defensive" responsibilites (first forward back, covering the slot for the 3rd man). This would work...but I would say temporarily.

Expect BG to pluck a centre for the second line prior to the trade deadline.

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Old
12-07-2006, 10:46 AM
  #49
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I do not understand why they don't split up Sammy and Kovy. It's beyond me why they wouldn't have tried splitting them up. It makes no sense whatsoever. From the first day, people were saying they weren't made to play together and for 3 months they have proven that, yet they continue to play together.

They couldn't produce with Ribs, they couldn't produce with Pleks, and they couldn't produce with Kovy centering either.

To me, it's an obvious decision to split them up.

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Old
12-07-2006, 10:49 AM
  #50
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Carbo should try Samsonov with Koivu and Lats as soon as the Habs loose another game, or move Kovalev to the first line. Samsonov and Kovalev don't fit together imo. And the first line is far from being untouchable. When Higgins come back, we should really try him as the second center after giving him 3 or 4 to get back on the game.

Right now:

Samsonov - Koivu - Latendresse
Ryder - Plekanec - Kovalev

when Higgins is back

Samsonov - Koivu - Latendresse
Ryder - Higgins - Kovalev

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