HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

George McPhee II

View Poll Results: Do the Caps need a new GM? Fire George, or keep George?
Fire George 80 81.63%
Keep George 18 18.37%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-18-2013, 09:44 PM
  #926
Chukcha
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: mongolian steppes
Country: Mongolia
Posts: 910
vCash: 500
I hope Ray Shero was watching his future team last game vs rags. He has finished his mission in Pittsburgh after Malkin and Letang extension, so nothing left to do there. He needs a new challenge, and long-suffering caps franchise is an ideal fit for him.

Chukcha is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 11:00 PM
  #927
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by champ19 View Post
What the caps need is a second line center with speed and tenacity, somebody who can penalty kill, somebody you can put out against say Joe Thorton, head to head and he wont come out second best. Where o where can we get a player like that? Cody Eakin 1st star, toi 21.40, 1 goal 1 assist Joe Thorton 0 pts -2. Of all of Mcphees stupidity and the list is endless, this will be the gift that keeps on giving. And because he's the font of all knowledge in things relating to GMing he threw in a second round pick just to prove how smart he was.
You know, once upon a time McPhee's motto was "we are building a team for longevity", back when he hoarded his young talent". Amazing how far he has gone the other direction.

Capsman is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 06:49 AM
  #928
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,047
vCash: 500
Honestly the more I think about it the more I believe GM needs to go. Even if it is simply a horizontal move in terms of ability as a GM, I believe only new blood would be able to go to Ted and say "listen, this is a mess we are in. We have about 3 outrageously bad contracts and a guy who was not ready to be a coach tying us down. We may have to wait until the end of the 14-15 season to begin to improve. Let's not cause any more damage in the meantime." George, on the other hand, cannot say that for obvious reasons even though it's the right approach and he knows that. He is a smart man, if he came to this team 3 years ago there is no way on earth he makes the moves he has. And I'm pretty convinced that when he is hired by some other organization he will build a regular season winner (whether he has learned enough to build a SC winner I don't know).

Capsman is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 07:15 AM
  #929
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,006
vCash: 500
which are the three OUTRAGIOUSLY bad contracts?
oates isn't ready to be a head coach? come on.

txpd is online now  
Old
10-19-2013, 08:08 AM
  #930
BiPolar Caps
Emotionally Wounded!
 
BiPolar Caps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 6,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaroc View Post
I buy the general premise but Erat is a legit top 6 guy. I don't think he is a good example at all. I think a healthy Erat is a factor in the playoffs. He certainly isn't a passenger.

If you want to point to his teams not doing well in the playoffs just look at his refusal to fix the 2LD situation or to run with substandard goaltending multiple times. Or to overpay for guys like Erskine and Laich and Neuvirth and Brouwer.
You missed my point entirely. At the time of the Erat trade (the TDL) the Caps were aware that Laich would not be returning and the team was still on the bubble as far as making the playoffs. In an almost act of desperation, McPhee made that trade at the "11th hour" of the TDL. McPhee's purpose of the trade was to get the team to the playoffs and anything more than that would be gravy. No way is Erat the missing piece to get the team to the SC Finals then or now. For McPhee getting the Caps to the playoffs and earning another SE banner is a successful season and Ted getting some extra games at higher ticket values (playoff games) at the VC is what's important to him.

BiPolar Caps is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 08:32 AM
  #931
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
which are the three OUTRAGIOUSLY bad contracts?
oates isn't ready to be a head coach? come on.
Ward, Laich, Erat, Neuvrith. Oates is trying to fit round pegs into square holes (or asking GM to go find round holes).

Capsman is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 09:15 AM
  #932
Xaroc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
You missed my point entirely. At the time of the Erat trade (the TDL) the Caps were aware that Laich would not be returning and the team was still on the bubble as far as making the playoffs. In an almost act of desperation, McPhee made that trade at the "11th hour" of the TDL. McPhee's purpose of the trade was to get the team to the playoffs and anything more than that would be gravy. No way is Erat the missing piece to get the team to the SC Finals then or now. For McPhee getting the Caps to the playoffs and earning another SE banner is a successful season and Ted getting some extra games at higher ticket values (playoff games) at the VC is what's important to him.
My mistake for misunderstanding you.

Xaroc is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 09:33 AM
  #933
fedfed
@FedFedRMNB
 
fedfed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Moscow City
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 4,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
Ward, Laich, Erat, Neuvrith. Oates is trying to fit round pegs into square holes (or asking GM to go find round holes).
Erat's contract isn't bad at all. Three others are subpar, but every team has a few of those.

fedfed is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 10:36 AM
  #934
Devil Dancer
Registered User
 
Devil Dancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 12,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Erat's contract isn't bad at all. Three others are subpar, but every team has a few of those.
Maybe not when he signed it, but it's awful now.

Devil Dancer is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 10:43 AM
  #935
fedfed
@FedFedRMNB
 
fedfed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Moscow City
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 4,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
Maybe not when he signed it, but it's awful now.
http://capgeek.com/comparables/?player_id=1043
Cap comparables. I'd take Erat over more than a half of this list.

fedfed is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 11:08 AM
  #936
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
http://capgeek.com/comparables/?player_id=1043
Cap comparables. I'd take Erat over more than a half of this list.
You have to look at the contact in the context of the team's need. 3.7 million for guy like Erat who is the missing piece for a team on the cusp of a Stanley Cup is one thing. For a team that had much deeper needs than a left hand it's an albatross, especially when he is playing 4th line for your team that cannot score even strength goals.

Capsman is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 11:23 AM
  #937
californiacapsfan
Registered Voter
 
californiacapsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berzerkeley, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
You have to look at the contact in the context of the team's need. 3.7 million for guy like Erat who is the missing piece for a team on the cusp of a Stanley Cup is one thing. For a team that had much deeper needs than a left hand it's an albatross, especially when he is playing 4th line for your team that cannot score even strength goals.
I hated the trade for the fact that our other needs were (and are) so much more glaring and for the loss of FF for what was a very low value. But, Erat's here and LW is not a strength position for the team. So, let's see if he will succeed now in a proper line spot. Cap situation or no, $4.5 M is fine for a 2 LW who is a difference maker. Whether that will prove true, is TBD.

Of course, he still isn't playing with a real scoring line center, but...


Last edited by californiacapsfan: 10-19-2013 at 12:00 PM.
californiacapsfan is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:00 AM
  #938
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Filip Forsberg

10 Games 1 G, 3A -8

Erat looking good on the top line and Latta looking VERY good in his role hitting, agitating and playing good D.

Small sample size but not looking as bad as made out to be huh?

BobRouse is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:05 AM
  #939
broad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,040
vCash: 500
Well you admitted it was a small sample size.

Regardless, even if Forsberg busts, it was still not a good trade. I simply can't believe that no other team would have offered more for him. In fact, I remember on deadline day one of the TSN talking heads quoted some anonymous GM saying that if he knew Forsberg was available, he'd have tendered a (better) offer.

This is from someone who thinks McPhee is a decent GM who doesn't want him fired.

broad is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:16 AM
  #940
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broad View Post
Well you admitted it was a small sample size.

Regardless, even if Forsberg busts, it was still not a good trade. I simply can't believe that no other team would have offered more for him. In fact, I remember on deadline day one of the TSN talking heads quoted some anonymous GM saying that if he knew Forsberg was available, he'd have tendered a (better) offer.

This is from someone who thinks McPhee is a decent GM who doesn't want him fired.
I think time will tell if you are correct.

Remember there was some suspicious stuff going on. How did Forsberg fall from #3 to #11 in the draft? Clearly there were some GMs who weren't sold on his "high ranking" so maybe they saw something they didn't like?

If thats the case then how would you know there would be GMs out there who would have offered more?

Also Erat is a proven player and GMGM clearly did his research on Latta. This kid can flat out play and is long what we have needed (pesky gritty agitating)

BobRouse is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:25 AM
  #941
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 17,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Filip Forsberg

10 Games 1 G, 3A -8

Erat looking good on the top line and Latta looking VERY good in his role hitting, agitating and playing good D.

Small sample size but not looking as bad as made out to be huh?
How many ways was this a horrible trade?

1) Could have gotten better value for Forsberg in the offseason.
2) If Erat was brought in for immediate help, he provided nothing.
3) If Erat was brought on as a long term solution, he is paid $4.5 million and is on pace for 27 points. For the mathematically disinclined, that's one more point than Forsberg.
4) One of Erat or Laich is redundant, yet both are on our roster.
5) With the addition of Erat we've committed $30 million of the cap to wingers. As a result, our D is atrocious and we have no depth.
6) We have no cap flexibility. To the point where compliance necessitated a stupid trade. Deadline acquisitions will be very difficult/impossible without moving a roster player.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:32 AM
  #942
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Filip Forsberg

10 Games 1 G, 3A -8

Erat looking good on the top line and Latta looking VERY good in his role hitting, agitating and playing good D.

Small sample size but not looking as bad as made out to be huh?
It was never likely to look as bad as it was in the near term. Erat better perform a heck of a lot better than a young kid playing his first season in North America.

I don't think anyone ever argued that Erat doesn't make this team better right now than Forsberg would. But that doesn't make it a good trade.

Millhaus is online now  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:33 AM
  #943
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Erat got hurt and as soon as he did we stopped playing as well in the playoffs.

I don't buy this "we could have gotten more" argument. HFboards has long overvalued prospects and I believe this to be a case of that. Everyone acts as if we got nothing. Erat and Latta is decent value

Maybe Forsberg will be a bust? Maybe a great many GMs saw him as a high bust potential player and thus that was a reason he fell? If thats the case then it certainly would have hurt his value no?

We are thin at LW. Agree with it or not that is how Oates wants the team constructed..handedness matters to him.

We've had years to address the D and have had assets and Cap space to do it but haven't. That I will give you. I just don't think Erat had any affect on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
It was never likely to look as bad as it was in the near term. Erat better perform a heck of a lot better than a young kid playing his first season in North America.

I don't think anyone ever argued that Erat doesn't make this team better right now than Forsberg would. But that doesn't make it a good trade.
Don't forget about Latta now. This is EXACTLY the kind of player we have needed for a while. This is a Tinner type player for sure so I'm biased. We needed a Keith Acton/Steve Ott type player and haven't had that since Hunter left. (perhaps Konowalchuk)

BobRouse is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:45 AM
  #944
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 17,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Erat got hurt and as soon as he did we stopped playing as well in the playoffs.

I don't buy this "we could have gotten more" argument. HFboards has long overvalued prospects and I believe this to be a case of that. Everyone acts as if we got nothing. Erat and Latta is decent value
As Broad noted, Forsberg apparently wasn't even shopped. The deadline day trade wasn't even the best we could have got for him.

And in July, Silfverberg plus futures returned exponentially more than Forsberg did.

Top prospect at the deadline got us a broken down, over the hill Erat.
Top prospect in July got Ottawa a 26 year old 30 goal scorer.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:49 AM
  #945
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Don't forget about Latta now. This is EXACTLY the kind of player we have needed for a while. This is a Tinner type player for sure so I'm biased. We needed a Keith Acton/Steve Ott type player and haven't had that since Hunter left. (perhaps Konowalchuk)
Sure Latta has looked pretty good in his 5 NHL games this season. He fits with the current 4th line makeup and has looked ok on the PK also. I'm going to give it a while before I put him in the same class as some very proven NHL players though. But yeah I like what he brings to the table so far...

Millhaus is online now  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:54 AM
  #946
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
As Broad noted, Forsberg apparently wasn't even shopped. The deadline day trade wasn't even the best we could have got for him.

And in July, Silfverberg plus futures returned exponentially more than Forsberg did.

Top prospect at the deadline got us a broken down, over the hill Erat.
Top prospect in July got Ottawa a 26 year old 30 goal scorer.
Wait....are you seriously going their "Silferverberg plus futures"?

That trade was basically 3 1sts (or 2 1st and a 2nd) for Bobby Ryan EDIT: It was 3 1st round picks. Stefan Noesen, Jakob Silfverberg, and a first round pick

Caps traded a 1st for Erat AND Latta

Don't make it out that Forsberg and a couple throw away futures could have gotten us Bobby Ryan.

Also if Anaheim REALLY wanted Forsberg could they have not just used their pick to select him?? They were one of the teams who passed on him after he fell. Knowledge is power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Sure Latta has looked pretty good in his 5 NHL games this season. He fits with the current 4th line makeup and has looked ok on the PK also. I'm going to give it a while before I put him in the same class as some very proven NHL players though. But yeah I like what he brings to the table so far...
Even if he turns out to be akin to Rob Murray I'll be excited. Caps need a player like this.

Latta crushes fools too. His hits seem to hurt I can tell you that.

BobRouse is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 11:05 AM
  #947
Liberati0n*
Full Hammock
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I think time will tell if you are correct.
It won't, because we already know he is. I agree that that's what bothers me more than anything else about the trade.

Also, I love Latta and agree they can use a player like him, but that has nothing to do with his trade value. He probably had little of it.

Liberati0n* is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 11:08 AM
  #948
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 17,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Wait....are you seriously going their "Silferverberg plus futures"?

That trade was basically 3 1sts (or 2 1st and a 2nd) for Bobby Ryan EDIT: It was 3 1st round picks. Stefan Noesen, Jakob Silfverberg, and a first round pick

Caps traded a 1st for Erat AND Latta

Don't make it out that Forsberg and a couple throw away futures could have gotten us Bobby Ryan.

Also if Anaheim REALLY wanted Forsberg could they have not just used their pick to select him?? They were one of the teams who passed on him after he fell. Knowledge is power
Anaheim also had 3 picks before Silfverberg (a second rounder) so I'm not really following your logic.

I guess it's your right to think that the return of 30 year old Martin Erat in the midst of the worst season of his career plus a possible third liner is an ok return for a highly rated prospect. It's also your right to think that trading that player in the first place was a smart move.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 11:09 AM
  #949
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
It won't, because we already know he is. I agree that that's what bothers me more than anything else about the trade.
No you don't know. You like to think you do but none of us do.

We don't know how NHL scouts and management valued Filip. What we DO KNOW is that he was projected as the #3 pick and fell to #11.

I find it funny how you all are ABSOLUTELY certain his value (to other NHL GMs and front offices whom none of you have intimate knowledge about) is more than Erat+Latta.

BobRouse is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 11:18 AM
  #950
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Anaheim also had 3 picks before Silfverberg (a second rounder) so I'm not really following your logic.

I guess it's your right to think that the return of 30 year old Martin Erat in the midst of the worst season of his career plus a possible third liner is an ok return for a highly rated prospect. It's also your right to think that trading that player in the first place was a smart move.
Silverberg was a proven player (or at least not a true prospect) tho so he surpassed being a draft pick by the time Anaheim made that trade. They saw him play and produce at the NHL level.

Again...you know little to nothing about how "highly rated" FF really was or how much his stock fell after the draft. None of us do.

Martin Erat is not out of gas as you are trying to imply and Latta looks to be an NHLer for his hitting/D/agitation/grit alone.

You do know that Kelly Miller was a "3rd liner" too right? Konowalchuk too. Don't try to lower the value of a player who can contribute.

BobRouse is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.