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Why this year's hot start isn't like last year's

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Old
10-11-2013, 11:32 AM
  #26
Gene Parmesan
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What killed the Sharks against St. Louis was the lack of speed..that isn't an issue anymore. The Sharks also can't be cute...go go go at all times.

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10-11-2013, 11:58 AM
  #27
Timo Time
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Not only has 5 on 5 play been worlds better than last years, but the shoot first mentality combined with speed. How many breakaway chances have we had? How may odd man rushes where we put the puck on net while crashing the net? So many factors and little things the Sharks were weary of doing last year, that they are now doing this year. And the obvious speed of this team is like a night and day difference.

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10-11-2013, 12:02 PM
  #28
do0glas
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i think having a puck mover on every pair has helped the overall game as well

braun, demers, and boyle can all be seen skating the puck out on their own, or making a stretch pass to get us out of trouble. add in the fact that they clearly have license to jump in and it makes for a deadly combo.

it also justifies in my mind burns at F.

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10-11-2013, 12:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TheCondor View Post
How many breakaway chances have we had?
Hertl is getting 2+ breakaways a game because he is very good at reading the defense and getting in the perfect position to split the Defense when he gets the pass. Defenders will eventually catch on to this, but that will make zone entries easier for Thornton and Burns because they'll start cheating towards the middle when the see Hertl getting in position.

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10-11-2013, 12:22 PM
  #30
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This team, so far, is completely different than last year. We couldn't generate chances with our speed like we are doing now.

If we can somehow get Irwin to improve on his defense the way Braun has last year, we'd be complete.

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10-11-2013, 12:45 PM
  #31
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-Vlasic looks like a Norris contender (never thought I would say that).
-Pavelski has not scored, but the number of golden scoring opportunities his line gets borders on ridiculous.
-Demers is going to make bone-head plays, he is also critical to the team's success as he is the 2nd best puckmover on the backend. We have to live with the bonehead plays, though hopefully Robinson can help him to limit them.
-I want to see Nieto play at least 15-20 games before being sent down, at which point he can refresh and (hopefully) dominate in the AHL. The value the Kings got from Tofolli in the bottom 6 last year was immense. Against a team like LA or Chicago, high-end talent on the 4th line can be the difference.
-Let Havlat take as long as he wants, we don't need him to make the playoffs. 85% health in the playoffs and he is a game changer. There isn't a better forward acquisition we could get at the deadline even if cap wasn't an issue.

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10-11-2013, 01:33 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
TI-89's are literally the fastest way to fail out of an engineering 400 level course.
I needed a graphing calc back in 8th grade and was going to get the TI-84, but my parents got me the 89 instead because they thought I could just use it in college anyway. They were right. It was great in my engineering courses; I just didn't rely on it.

Back to the actual topic, this team does feel different from last year's hot start. There's consistent speed and forechecking. Scoring is balanced and even strength play is awesome right now.

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10-11-2013, 02:18 PM
  #33
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Biggest differences from last season thus far ...

- breakout/clearing the defensive zone is way more consistent

- PP entry much cleaner

- d-men, especially Vlasic, making intelligent pinches, and following the play into the slot for scoring chances

- Hertl

- team speed, obviously

Four games does not a trend make, but add Havlat and Torres into the mix, and give Hamilton a legit opportunity to prove he can contribute, and this could be a very deep, talented, capable team come playoff time.

Injuries are always a huge factor, that nobody can predict.

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10-11-2013, 02:27 PM
  #34
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Games on the TI-89 are on another level. I was always a fan of the TI-85 though. I sold the 89 after college, but still have my 85.

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10-11-2013, 03:13 PM
  #35
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I like the things that Jux listed as well as some of the other contributions.

I do want to repeat the warning on sample size and add my own issue regarding matchups. We want to see what happens when they run into LA, Minny and St. Louis, either home or road. Can they slow the Sharks? Can the Sharks run and gun with Chicago and Anaheim or will TM be tempted to try to slow the opposition?

The second Vancouver game gave us a glimpse. They didn't entirely stop the Sharks, but the did clog the middle on exits and in the neutral zone and it cut down on Sharks' chances. They were pretty rigorous about keeping their third man high and in the middle and it forced the Sharks to the boards a lot more. It bears watching to see if others do it and if the Sharks can work multiple strategies to defeat opposition counter strategies.

I don't like the implication that the Sharks must dump the puck with a north south strategy. Any strategy should seek to maximize the number of clean entries, not dumps or chips, that the Sharks can get while minimizing the risk of those entries.

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10-11-2013, 04:30 PM
  #36
do0glas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I like the things that Jux listed as well as some of the other contributions.

I do want to repeat the warning on sample size and add my own issue regarding matchups. We want to see what happens when they run into LA, Minny and St. Louis, either home or road. Can they slow the Sharks? Can the Sharks run and gun with Chicago and Anaheim or will TM be tempted to try to slow the opposition?

The second Vancouver game gave us a glimpse. They didn't entirely stop the Sharks, but the did clog the middle on exits and in the neutral zone and it cut down on Sharks' chances. They were pretty rigorous about keeping their third man high and in the middle and it forced the Sharks to the boards a lot more. It bears watching to see if others do it and if the Sharks can work multiple strategies to defeat opposition counter strategies.

I don't like the implication that the Sharks must dump the puck with a north south strategy. Any strategy should seek to maximize the number of clean entries, not dumps or chips, that the Sharks can get while minimizing the risk of those entries.
The ice was also very slow that game. We overcame it pretty soundly in my opinion.

We play less behind the net, and I see more high risk high reward plays.

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Old
10-11-2013, 05:38 PM
  #37
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Yes, I agree. ES numbers tell us a new story. We need to see how we do against other teams first before we can call our system successful.

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Old
10-11-2013, 05:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
The ice was also very slow that game. We overcame it pretty soundly in my opinion.

We play less behind the net, and I see more high risk high reward plays.
Bad ice contributed to the poor NZ passing (less cross ice), but it didn't impact the lesser selection of middle ice exits. That was more Vancouver. I have always clamored to get away from up-the-boards exits, but it must be a part of an entire strategy to maximize aggressive exit plays, like cross ice and up the middle or even fast low support to windup and skate it out quickly. They need to tailor the strategy to what the opposition is doing.

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:56 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Good thread Jux but we all already know this

Just ignore the people in the main boards

I was gonna make this thread in the main boards after ten games, but right now it's four games, still not enough time

I think any Sharks fan who isn't just being a pessimist for the sake of being a pessimist can understand this is the best team we have ever iced.
Best team ever iced? The 01-02 and 08-09 Shark teams would like to have a word with you.

Last year's 7-0 start was due to mostly PP dominance from from the big 4. This year its much different. Mostly everyone is contributing, especially offense from the defenseman which was one of the team's biggest concerns with Boyle getting older. Its still early so Im not overly optimistic. The team at least feels fresh.

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Old
10-11-2013, 07:18 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Best team ever iced? The 01-02 and 08-09 Shark teams would like to have a word with you.

Last year's 7-0 start was due to mostly PP dominance from from the big 4. This year its much different. Mostly everyone is contributing, especially offense from the defenseman which was one of the team's biggest concerns with Boyle getting older. Its still early so Im not overly optimistic. The team at least feels fresh.
08-09 team was good, but it lacked scoring depth, so in the playoffs when Michalek-Pavelski-Clowe played like poop, no one was scoring behind Thornton and Marleau. This season if Marleau or Thornton go cold, you have Couture, Burns, Pavelski, Hertl, Kennedy, and potentially Havlat and Wingels to back it up. Not Marcel Goc.


Last edited by Juxtaposer: 10-11-2013 at 07:26 PM.
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Old
10-11-2013, 07:26 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Best team ever iced? The 01-02 and 08-09 Shark teams would like to have a word with you.

Last year's 7-0 start was due to mostly PP dominance from from the big 4. This year its much different. Mostly everyone is contributing, especially offense from the defenseman which was one of the team's biggest concerns with Boyle getting older. Its still early so Im not overly optimistic. The team at least feels fresh.
I agree about the 08/09 team, that season really shouldn't have ended the way it did and I think that team was probably the Sharks best chance at a Cup to date.

Elite forwards, elite d-men, good depth, elite possession team...average goaltending.

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Old
10-11-2013, 07:27 PM
  #42
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I agree about the 08/09 team, that season really shouldn't have ended the way it did and I think that team was probably the Sharks best chance at a Cup to date.

Elite forwards, d-men, possession team...average goaltending.
Not enough offensive forward depth and Nabby was meh that year, plus awful luck and bad injuries in the playoffs. I'd kill for that defensive corps again. Ehrhoff on the 3rd pair, good night.

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Old
10-11-2013, 08:39 PM
  #43
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The plus-minus doesn't lie:

Lol looks like nhl 14

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Old
10-11-2013, 08:53 PM
  #44
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Obviously rolling 4 lines everyone contributing has played major factors to their success. Niemi has been quietly good his best game was last night. Our 5 on 5 play is the biggest factor. For how many years have we just relied on our pp and if I didn't score or we didn't win specials teams battle we lost. This year we have already been on the wrong end of special teams and we win by mulitple goals. As much as the 5 on 5 scoring may come bk to earth a bit so will our power play which will get better. We have had balance. The emergence of Braun demers Vlasic have been outstanding this year. Boyle has 1 pt and they are carrying the team Vlasic looks like he did in the Blake days. Demers confidence is sky high now and it shows on the ice '. Brauns injury most have been holding him bk more then we thought but his outlet and shot look much better. Full training camp for the d with Robinson has helped at bit. Feels much different this year. And for many fans of other teams said our future is bleak window us almost shut. I will say couture hertl pavs burns nieto wingels. Vlasic Braun demers not to shabby the future is looking a little brighter. Very exciting to see. It's early long way to go but enjoying it

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10-11-2013, 08:57 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I like the things that Jux listed as well as some of the other contributions.

I do want to repeat the warning on sample size and add my own issue regarding matchups. We want to see what happens when they run into LA, Minny and St. Louis, either home or road. Can they slow the Sharks? Can the Sharks run and gun with Chicago and Anaheim or will TM be tempted to try to slow the opposition?

The second Vancouver game gave us a glimpse. They didn't entirely stop the Sharks, but the did clog the middle on exits and in the neutral zone and it cut down on Sharks' chances. They were pretty rigorous about keeping their third man high and in the middle and it forced the Sharks to the boards a lot more. It bears watching to see if others do it and if the Sharks can work multiple strategies to defeat opposition counter strategies.

I don't like the implication that the Sharks must dump the puck with a north south strategy. Any strategy should seek to maximize the number of clean entries, not dumps or chips, that the Sharks can get while minimizing the risk of those entries.
I think the Sharks can handle the Hawks either way. They can play the run and gun game as long as they keep the momentum and take the wind out of their sails whenever they have those surges. Chicago has the tendency to sometimes backcheck too hard and you got a wide open goalscorer somewhere. The key is to deflate them and don't let them get back into the game.

They could also slow the game down, but you need to play a much more tighter checking game ala Pheonix and keep everything on the perimeter. Gotta have a good counter attack and finish your chances.

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Old
10-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RainbowDash View Post
I think the Sharks can handle the Hawks either way. They can play the run and gun game as long as they keep the momentum and take the wind out of their sails whenever they have those surges. Chicago has the tendency to sometimes backcheck too hard and you got a wide open goalscorer somewhere. The key is to deflate them and don't let them get back into the game.

They could also slow the game down, but you need to play a much more tighter checking game ala Pheonix and keep everything on the perimeter. Gotta have a good counter attack and finish your chances.
The Hawks do come back deep, but you don't want to spend a lot of time getting the puck to their net. Playing a cycle game plays into their hands. They wait for turnovers low in their zone to jumpstart their offense. It is an anti-JT strategy. They do a lot of middle exits and they do it fast.

The Sharks have never played the slow down, trap, counterattack game well. They get occasional plays, but it isn't consistent nor organized like Trotz's system. I do like that all 3 of the Sharks' centers have already generated counterattack goals this year, but it isn't structured. The Sharks' own zone defense has never been like that of the top defensive teams; they are more dependent on ozone possession time for their quality defensive numbers.

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Old
10-12-2013, 06:46 PM
  #47
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*#1 is Depth, which has been our nemesis for some time now. Nieto and Hertl and Kennedy (as well, especially when Torres and Havlat come back) more than compensate for an unproductive Clowe, Handzus and Galiardi;
*As well, the emergence of Couture, from last season of course but he is only getting better by time and teams simply can no longer focus their best on Jumbo alone;
*The solid play of Braun and Demers in the back solidifying our complete D core;
*The power forward in Burns in which Jumbo needed to play with;
*and the few personnel changes focusing on more team speed.

I would really like to see Hamilton get a shot on the squad at some time soon.

Added together with the solid vets on our squad, it does look very good and promising.


Last edited by 19sharks19: 10-12-2013 at 07:15 PM.
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Old
10-13-2013, 05:33 AM
  #48
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Nothing but good things going on around here for Sharks fans. I am happy to finally be feeling positive again. Last year was a disaster and I was driving the wambulance....

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Old
10-20-2013, 09:22 AM
  #49
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5 on 5 Scoring is Way up after 8 games!

I've been pretty impressed with the teams 5 on 5 scoring so far this season. The GM, coaching staff and players have focused on this area (others also) for this season. I have not seen enough games to see what the difference is in their system in this area. For those that have seen most of the games, what are they doing differently with regard to systems that is resulting in this increase in 5 on 5 scoring?

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Old
10-20-2013, 10:47 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
I've been pretty impressed with the teams 5 on 5 scoring so far this season. The GM, coaching staff and players have focused on this area (others also) for this season. I have not seen enough games to see what the difference is in their system in this area. For those that have seen most of the games, what are they doing differently with regard to systems that is resulting in this increase in 5 on 5 scoring?
They are playing a very aggressive puck pursuit system and are focusing more on fast zone entries and taking it to the net immediately. They are doing exactly what we've been begging for this team to do for years.

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