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Official 2014 NHL Draft Discussion, Suck for Sam or Play Bad For Ekblad?

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Old
10-20-2013, 11:18 AM
  #51
Barbara Underhill
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10-20-2013, 11:21 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BB v2 Chiefs View Post
I'd like to take a forward provided the team drafts top 10, although I'm guessing we'll probably land around 18-23.

I know nada about this draft. Would anyone like to enlighten me? Found this: Bob McKenzie's preseason top-15
Insane if u think we are making playoffs.

18-23

Lololololol

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Old
10-20-2013, 11:29 AM
  #53
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Insane if u think we are making playoffs.

18-23

Lololololol
The only thing insane are the people writing this team off 8 games into the season with a lot of our top players injured on and off.

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Old
10-20-2013, 11:30 AM
  #54
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You don't throw everything away because of eight mostly bad games under a new coach. You don't even throw everything you have away after one bad season, simply because it takes much longer to get it back.

Just show me how many "rebuilds" have resulted in better teams than what we have now (and with now I don't mean the eight games with a depleted lineup, but the team that regularly makes the playoffs and even got to the conference finals). I can easily name two, Chicago and Pittsburgh. And then?
It's not about this year. It's about every year. Every year is not good enough. There are no partial rebuilds. Retooling isn't working. Whats wrong with trying something else?

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10-20-2013, 11:31 AM
  #55
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The only thing insane are the people writing this team off 8 games into the season with a lot of our top players injured on and off.
Thank you. Someone with a sensible head speaking.

Way too much overreaction here.

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10-20-2013, 11:39 AM
  #56
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It's not about this year. It's about every year. Every year is not good enough. There are no partial rebuilds. Retooling isn't working. Whats wrong with trying something else?
You are contradicting yourself. First you say 18 months ago doesn't matter, now it's every year. We were among the four best teams 18 months ago. You can argue that we overachieved, but we weren't that far of from winning it all. Maybe you need to realize, that there are 30 teams in the league, but only one can win each year. You say it isn't working, but it was working pretty good. You don't start from scratch because it doesn't work in one season. It takes multiple years to rebuild, and what do you do if your new core only gets you to the 2nd round? You start again from scratch after two years of really trying?

At the end of the day, this calling for a full out rebuild is ridculous after eight games. I think this thread is a good place to dream a bit about a high pick after such demoralizing losses like last night's. But what you want just makes no sense. This core is pretty young and it's far easier and probable to improve though good trades, free agency and drafting than by blowing it all up. Even this season is far from lost.

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Old
10-20-2013, 11:44 AM
  #57
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You are contradicting yourself. First you say 18 months ago doesn't matter, now it's every year. We were among the four best teams 18 months ago. You can argue that we overachieved, but we weren't that far of from winning it all. Maybe you need to realize, that there are 30 teams in the league, but only one can win each year. You say it isn't working, but it was working pretty good. You don't start from scratch because it doesn't work in one season. It takes multiple years to rebuild, and what do you do if your new core only gets you to the 2nd round? You start again from scratch after two years of really trying?

At the end of the day, this calling for a full out rebuild is ridculous after eight games. I think this thread is a good place to dream a bit about a high pick after such demoralizing losses like last night's. But what you want just makes no sense. This core is pretty young and it's far easier and probable to improve though good trades, free agency and drafting than by blowing it all up. Even this season is far from lost.
I'm not contradicting myself at all. You were talking about 18 months ago like it was some huge achievement. It wasn't. If you look at the overall body of work, it was an aberration.

It's not about just the 8 games. Retooling isn't working. Hasn't worked before. Should we just keep banging our head against the wall and hope that the next time we do it, it won't hurt?

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10-20-2013, 11:54 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
I'm not contradicting myself at all. You were talking about 18 months ago like it was some huge achievement. It wasn't. If you look at the overall body of work, it was an aberration.

It's not about just the 8 games. Retooling isn't working. Hasn't worked before. Should we just keep banging our head against the wall and hope that the next time we do it, it won't hurt?
You say it isn't working, I say the chances of it working with our current core are far better than rebuilding for the next five years. I guess we just disagree on this.

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10-20-2013, 11:57 AM
  #59
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Yes, new starting last year, all teams have a shot at the top pick
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Oh maybe you are right, I'm not sure really.
Nope, you sir are correct. Thanks for the clarification.

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10-20-2013, 11:59 AM
  #60
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You say it isn't working, I say the chances of it working with our current core are far better than rebuilding for the next five years. I guess we just disagree on this.
Your solution is instead of trying to do something different, continue to try to pound a square peg into a round hole. Got it. I said it isn't working because it's not. You're advocating doing the same thing over and over again. Sure has worked hasn't it? Oh wait, it hasn't.

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10-20-2013, 12:03 PM
  #61
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To be completely honest, I'm terribly embarrassed that we have a thread like this already. Even if it's somewhat tongue in cheek (is it?), this is just such a poor reflection on this board.

I expect us to be picking 20th or so. Any chance Virtanen will fall that far?

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Old
10-20-2013, 12:09 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
Your solution is instead of trying to do something different, continue to try to pound a square peg into a round hole. Got it. I said it isn't working because it's not. You're advocating doing the same thing over and over again. Sure has worked hasn't it? Oh wait, it hasn't.
It's not exactly the same thing trying different players, is it? Of course there's something lacking in the assembly of the roster, but doing something different doesn't mean we have to blow it up. Maybe we don't try to sign so many plugs first. Or we try to trade one piece of our pretty strong defense. There are lots of things that you can do different before you have to blow everything up.

You know, you might be right, that this retooling simply won't quite work for the next five years, but then our chances of winning it all will still be significantly better than if we just trade everybody away now. And even with a full rebuild it's far from a sure thing that we will be even just as good as we are now in five or even ten years time.

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Old
10-20-2013, 12:12 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
To be completely honest, I'm terribly embarrassed that we have a thread like this already. Even if it's somewhat tongue in cheek (is it?), this is just such a poor reflection on this board.

I expect us to be picking 20th or so. Any chance Virtanen will fall that far?
Like I said, I think this thread is a nice diversion after this bad start to the season and these brutal losses. Here, at least, you can take a tiny positive out of that loss and dream about high picks. In the end of course I also expect us to just make the playoffs or just miss out on them, resulting in the ~15th pick.

The talk about blowing it all up and doing a full rebuild is ridiculous though, I quite agree.

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Old
10-20-2013, 12:16 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
It's not exactly the same thing trying different players, is it? Of course there's something lacking in the assembly of the roster, but doing something different doesn't mean we have to blow it up. Maybe we don't try to sign so many plugs first. Or we try to trade one piece of our pretty strong defense. There are lots of things that you can do different before you have to blow everything up.

You know, you might be right, that this retooling simply won't quite work for the next five years, but then our chances of winning it all will still be significantly better than if we just trade everybody away now. And even with a full rebuild it's far from a sure thing that we will be even just as good as we are now in five or even ten years time.
They've already been doing those things - has. Not. Worked. Don't understand how that is a tough concept to grasp but it seems like it is for you. You are advocating for a retooling, same thing for years which has yielded zero fruit.

If a full rebuild is far from a sure thing, doing the same thing we are doing now over and over is even further from that.

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Old
10-20-2013, 12:16 PM
  #65
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They're not picking that high unless they continue to have season breaking injuries. ie Nash out the rest of the year and Lundqvist breaks a leg/arm.

Quick.

Someone hire Jeff Gillooly in a player trainer role.

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10-20-2013, 12:17 PM
  #66
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Gavin Bayreuther is an overager who has already jumped onto SLU's top power play unit, he could attract some late round attention this year if he finishes near a ppg, which is possible playing with the Carey brothers.

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Old
10-20-2013, 12:24 PM
  #67
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Is this the thread where we can also talk about undrafted free agents?

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Old
10-20-2013, 12:28 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
To be completely honest, I'm terribly embarrassed that we have a thread like this already. Even if it's somewhat tongue in cheek (is it?), this is just such a poor reflection on this board.

I expect us to be picking 20th or so. Any chance Virtanen will fall that far?
What about the almost identical thread two weeks ago that got locked?

I think we need to make some changes, not tank and rebuild so I agree this thread is silly.

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Old
10-20-2013, 12:36 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
They've already been doing those things - has. Not. Worked. Don't understand how that is a tough concept to grasp but it seems like it is for you. You are advocating for a retooling, same thing for years which has yielded zero fruit.

If a full rebuild is far from a sure thing, doing the same thing we are doing now over and over is even further from that.
You say they'd have done retooling all the time, but really how many times did the retool with our current core, that's still decently young and made it to the conference final? Once with the Nash trade and you could say the coach change might be another retool with the result still unknown. That's far too early to give up and blow everything up.

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10-20-2013, 12:37 PM
  #70
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You say they'd have done retooling all the time, but really how many times did the retool with our current core, that's still decently young and made it to the conference final? Once with the Nash trade and you could say the coach change might be another retool with the result still unknown. That's far too early to give up and blow everything up.
Every year. Every year they retool with our current core. Next?

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10-20-2013, 12:53 PM
  #71
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Every year. Every year they retool with our current core. Next?
Have some patience. Despite everything looks like a horror show so far we got a great goalie, some young and again great young defenders. Sure we need to fix our forward line up but a rebuild isn't the way to go.

This might as well be a some kind of a gap season where we ends up with a solid pick and guys like Kreider and Miller can stick with the big club and make some notable difference next year.

After two big trades in a short time this team needs some continuity more than anything.

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10-20-2013, 12:53 PM
  #72
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No matter how many times we go to the ECF, we still lost. Unless you win the cup, you lose.

The ECF team was an anomaly. People seem to think that just because that happened, we are a good team. That year, the stars aligned and everything worked out perfectly. I will guarantee, right now, that will never happen again. We need to rebuild the correct way.

We haven't won a cup in 20 years. We haven't been successful in 20 years.

If you don't think we have a chance to win the cup in the next 2-3 years why hold onto our current roster? We should sell them before their value plummets.

The longer we sit around the 15-25 spot, the worse off we will get. NYR needs to make a decision right now. Rebuild or retool. If we decide to keep the same core, we need MAJOR retooling.

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Old
10-20-2013, 01:00 PM
  #73
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Have some patience. Despite everything looks like a horror show so far we got a great goalie, some young and again great young defenders. Sure we need to fix our forward line up but a rebuild isn't the way to go.

This might as well be a some kind of a gap season where we ends up with a solid pick and guys like Kreider and Miller can stick with the big club and make some notable difference next year.

After two big trades in a short time this team needs some continuity more than anything.
What is with this have some patience argument? I'm advocating for a rebuild, which requires ultimate patience. I've had patience with this team for the last couple of years. How many more years of patience before we realize what we are doing isn't working? I don't have patience for incompetence, which is what I am seeing year after year. This team isn't good enough and nothing has changed except for our D and G being worse.

The great goalie and D are two of our biggest problems right now. 30th in the league in goals against.

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10-20-2013, 01:07 PM
  #74
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Every year. Every year they retool with our current core. Next?
And since when do we have this core with Stepan, Staal, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Callahan, Girardi, Lundqvist? Three years, more or less. Since then our last rebuild (even though it wasn't done the Penguins way) is finished. Since then we have done some minor retooling and one major retooling (Bash trade). This core still has quite a few years left and until then you try it with them. You do not blow everything up after just two or three years of trying, you blow it up when your core players are at the very end of their prime. Otherwise you'd be rebuilding like 70% of the time, which is just stupid.

And some of you really have wrong expectations of a rebuild. Only a few rebuilds lead to a serious contender. Even Pittsburgh, with their double jackpot of Malkin and Crosby has made it to the ECF just twice until now. Even four top-2 picks in a row with two generational talents is not guarantee for success. And Pittsburgh obviously is one of the better examples for a rebuild. Edmonton has sucked for years now and shows little improvement. But it even gets worse: There's no guarantee for continous top 3 picks either, even if you tank. Then this team could be the new Florida Panthers.

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10-20-2013, 01:14 PM
  #75
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This team is light years away from Pittsburgh, Boston, Detroit and I don't want to even talk about the elite western teams. Being mediocre is the worst thing you can be in sports. Retooling only leads to more mediocrity. I would absolutely blow things up. I would mandate trading UFA that won't resign and I would absolutely make every effort to move Nash before the summer. Nash is like the new John LeClair and getting his contract and Richards off the books by the offseason will allow the team to properly rebuilt. But of course this won't happen.

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