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Official 2014 NHL Draft Discussion, Suck for Sam or Play Bad For Ekblad?

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Old
10-20-2013, 01:31 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
And since when do we have this core with Stepan, Staal, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Callahan, Girardi, Lundqvist? Three years, more or less. Since then our last rebuild (even though it wasn't done the Penguins way) is finished. Since then we have done some minor retooling and one major retooling (Bash trade). This core still has quite a few years left and until then you try it with them. You do not blow everything up after just two or three years of trying, you blow it up when your core players are at the very end of their prime. Otherwise you'd be rebuilding like 70% of the time, which is just stupid.

And some of you really have wrong expectations of a rebuild. Only a few rebuilds lead to a serious contender. Even Pittsburgh, with their double jackpot of Malkin and Crosby has made it to the ECF just twice until now. Even four top-2 picks in a row with two generational talents is not guarantee for success. And Pittsburgh obviously is one of the better examples for a rebuild. Edmonton has sucked for years now and shows little improvement. But it even gets worse: There's no guarantee for continous top 3 picks either, even if you tank. Then this team could be the new Florida Panthers.
When have we had that core? For the last few years. You are aware of that right? You answered your own question. Last Rebuild? The Rangers have never done a true rebuild. The retooling isn't working.

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10-20-2013, 01:33 PM
  #77
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This team is light years away from Pittsburgh, Boston, Detroit and I don't want to even talk about the elite western teams. Being mediocre is the worst thing you can be in sports. Retooling only leads to more mediocrity. I would absolutely blow things up. I would mandate trading UFA that won't resign and I would absolutely make every effort to move Nash before the summer. Nash is like the new John LeClair and getting his contract and Richards off the books by the offseason will allow the team to properly rebuilt. But of course this won't happen.
I agree completely. Nash has the look of being damaged goods.

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10-20-2013, 01:36 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Savant View Post
This team is light years away from Pittsburgh, Boston, Detroit and I don't want to even talk about the elite western teams. Being mediocre is the worst thing you can be in sports. Retooling only leads to more mediocrity. I would absolutely blow things up. I would mandate trading UFA that won't resign and I would absolutely make every effort to move Nash before the summer. Nash is like the new John LeClair and getting his contract and Richards off the books by the offseason will allow the team to properly rebuilt. But of course this won't happen.
How do we blow things up? If we blow things up, we still have a decent team with guys like Stepan, Staal, Hank, McD, Moore, and the rest of the young players. Or are we trading Hank, too? Are we trading Stepan? McD?

You say we should blow this up but then don't say how you would. Nothing worse in the world than throwing out suggestions like that and leaving it open ended on how it would be accomplished. Utterly lazy.

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10-20-2013, 01:58 PM
  #79
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The Rangers missed their time to "rebuild". That should have happened in the mid 2000's. Now? Pretty stupid. This is not an aging roster, where there's no chance of winning in the near future. There are too many solid to good young players on the team and system.
Throw in the fact that there is a top 3 goalie.

Absurd talk. lol

What they need to do is make a couple of smart trades to improve the top 6.

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10-20-2013, 02:24 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
How do we blow things up?
Been watching the Jets game. Going in and out of HF.

I actually started a thread on how I would attempt to rebuild like a week and a half ago.

Think the team has a lot of options. The only players I keep untouchable are Stepan, McDonagh and Richards because of the amnesty.

I already mentioned I would trade Nash. My first call is to Toronto knowing Nash would waive for Toronto and they would give up assets. Maybe you get JVR or Lupul with Gardiner or Franson maybe Reimer gets thrown around. Whatever.

Ryan Callahan I trade if he wants Dustin Brown money. If he wants anything over a cap hit of 5.3 I don't think the rangers can afford to keep him. Call up Colorado, might want some vet leadership. They also like Del Zotto. Why not Callahan, Del Zotto and Pyatt for O'Reilly Downie and Barrie.

Henrik if he won't sign by trade deadline I absolutely trade because I think it is very naive to think he is a lock to resign. You move him for a 1st a young nhl ready goalie and an expiring contract. Maybe like a Jake Allen type (first guy that came to mind).

Would trade Dan Girardi for either a better Bouwmeester offer (first and two prospects) or you can try to get someone established. Girardi for Purcell and a pick? Maybe Girardi to Detroit to get a guy like Smith back with more.

Would also trade Hagelin in any deal to upgrade the top six. I think Hagelin is really a third line winger and if you can package him to upgrade too six you do it.

Basically Rangers should be rebuilding by targeting players under team control and aren't overpaid for what they offer the team. This is a little jumbled but maybe later I expand a bit.

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10-20-2013, 02:28 PM
  #81
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While I disagree with just about everything you wrote, I do give you credit for at least spelling it out instead of resting on the previous statement. Props for that.

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10-20-2013, 02:41 PM
  #82
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While I disagree with just about everything you wrote, I do give you credit for at least spelling it out instead of resting on the previous statement. Props for that.
Thanks.....I think.

I'm just tired of the team taking half measures. I just think finishing 6-10 in the conference every year doesn't allow you to be in position to draft premium talent. The rangers recently have been drafting players that top out at 2nd and 3rd liners. In order to be a contender you have to be terrible enough to draft high like Pittsburgh and Chicago, hit on all your late picks like Detroit and Boston or take advantage of Paul Holmgren.

Rangers fit none of these criteria. They are however in a position to rebuild. That being said I would be remiss to not ask you how you would approach things.

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10-20-2013, 02:48 PM
  #83
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Thanks.....I think.

I'm just tired of the team taking half measures. I just think finishing 6-10 in the conference every year doesn't allow you to be in position to draft premium talent. The rangers recently have been drafting players that top out at 2nd and 3rd liners. In order to be a contender you have to be terrible enough to draft high like Pittsburgh and Chicago, hit on all your late picks like Detroit and Boston or take advantage of Paul Holmgren.

Rangers fit none of these criteria. They are however in a position to rebuild. That being said I would be remiss to not ask you how you would approach things.
Haha, you should think it was worth saying thanks. I meant that in a nice way. A lot of guys on here refuse to go in depth when asked to. I'm glad you did.

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10-20-2013, 03:01 PM
  #84
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i really want to know what connor mcdavid could do for this team

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10-20-2013, 03:03 PM
  #85
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i really want to know what connor mcdavid could do for this team
a lot

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10-20-2013, 03:03 PM
  #86
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Haha, you should think it was worth saying thanks. I meant that in a nice way. A lot of guys on here refuse to go in depth when asked to. I'm glad you did.
In that case you're welcome. If I wasn't on my phone id drop the "Did we just become best friends?!?" pic from Step Brothers.

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10-20-2013, 03:04 PM
  #87
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a lot
it would be amazing

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10-20-2013, 03:34 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
And since when do we have this core with Stepan, Staal, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Callahan, Girardi, Lundqvist? Three years, more or less. Since then our last rebuild (even though it wasn't done the Penguins way) is finished. Since then we have done some minor retooling and one major retooling (Bash trade). This core still has quite a few years left and until then you try it with them. You do not blow everything up after just two or three years of trying, you blow it up when your core players are at the very end of their prime. Otherwise you'd be rebuilding like 70% of the time, which is just stupid.
We haven't had a true rebuild since God knows when.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
And some of you really have wrong expectations of a rebuild. Only a few rebuilds lead to a serious contender. Even Pittsburgh, with their double jackpot of Malkin and Crosby has made it to the ECF just twice until now. Even four top-2 picks in a row with two generational talents is not guarantee for success. And Pittsburgh obviously is one of the better examples for a rebuild. Edmonton has sucked for years now and shows little improvement. But it even gets worse: There's no guarantee for continous top 3 picks either, even if you tank. Then this team could be the new Florida Panthers.
Pittsburgh's rebuild was a success because they won the cup.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you rather have 6 years of making it to the playoffs, or 5 years of mediocrity and 1 cup?

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10-20-2013, 03:39 PM
  #89
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Pittsburghs rebuild was a success because they got Crosby and Malkin.

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10-20-2013, 03:42 PM
  #90
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I highly doubt the Rangers will be so bad that they are out of it by the deadline, but if they were they could get so decent returns. I would think Boyle, D. Moore, Pouliet, and possibly Girardi would be rental trades. If the Rangers didn't want to invest the dollars needed to resign Girardi they could probably get a 1st plus something for him.

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10-20-2013, 04:19 PM
  #91
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I just don't see us being out of it by the deadline. I'd be incredibly surprised to see this team be that bad. If this team is that bad, it means that Lundqvist is continuing to play like he currently is.

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10-20-2013, 05:47 PM
  #92
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Getting back good young players IS a retool NOT a rebuild....... also keeping our good young established core would make it very, very unlikely we finish as low as you guys are suggesting..... i think some of you guys just like to complain to hear yourselves say i told you so...and then leave a small out incase positive things do happen

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10-20-2013, 05:48 PM
  #93
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Pittsburghs rebuild was a success because they got Crosby and Malkin.
Their success was also due in large part to some very shrewd moves made by management. The Pens built around those two. The Hawks built around Toews and Kane. It's not as easy as getting high picks. You need to add the supporting cast. Those teams have done that, and each year they continue to do it.

The Rangers could deal away pieces like Girardi, Callahan, Nash and Lundqvist, and with the remaining pieces, plus a few good draft picks and the assets returned in trade, potentially be ready to compete again in 2 or 3 years. Stepan, Staal, McDonagh, Moore, Brassard, Miller, etc. That's a much better core than most rebuilding teams have to start from.

To get back on topic, Reinhart is the kind of guy you can build a forward group around, and the same can be said for Ekblad on D. My only concern with Ek is that he is an absolute physical monster right now. That gives him a huge advantage in juniors.

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10-20-2013, 06:34 PM
  #94
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Their success was also due in large part to some very shrewd moves made by management. The Pens built around those two. The Hawks built around Toews and Kane. It's not as easy as getting high picks. You need to add the supporting cast. Those teams have done that, and each year they continue to do it.

The Rangers could deal away pieces like Girardi, Callahan, Nash and Lundqvist, and with the remaining pieces, plus a few good draft picks and the assets returned in trade, potentially be ready to compete again in 2 or 3 years. Stepan, Staal, McDonagh, Moore, Brassard, Miller, etc. That's a much better core than most rebuilding teams have to start from.

To get back on topic, Reinhart is the kind of guy you can build a forward group around, and the same can be said for Ekblad on D. My only concern with Ek is that he is an absolute physical monster right now. That gives him a huge advantage in juniors.
I think when you already have the elite players you get by drafting in the top three it makes it significantly easier to add to your supporting cast.

Your second paragraph I completely agree with although I would shop Brassard.

I think this years draft is about 6-7 players deep. Would not be optimistic of getting what the Rangers needs if drafting 10th or higher. I am a big fan of Draisaitl and Virtanen.

I agree about Ekblad. I am wary of players that are too physically dominant. I usually like players that don't have to grow into their bodies over the opposite, but as long as they arent relying on their size.

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10-20-2013, 06:48 PM
  #95
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I think when you already have the elite players you get by drafting in the top three it makes it significantly easier to add to your supporting cast.

Your second paragraph I completely agree with although I would shop Brassard.

I think this years draft is about 6-7 players deep. Would not be optimistic of getting what the Rangers needs if drafting 10th or higher. I am a big fan of Draisaitl and Virtanen.

I agree about Ekblad. I am wary of players that are too physically dominant. I usually like players that don't have to grow into their bodies over the opposite, but as long as they arent relying on their size.
Those teams were drafting some of their best players before they were drafting 1, 2, 3 overall. Keith, Seabrook, Letang... all great drafting by their respective teams and the highest there was Seabrook (14th overall in 2003), with the other two not being drafted in the 1st round. They also added some of their supporting cast that way.

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10-20-2013, 08:24 PM
  #96
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I think when you already have the elite players you get by drafting in the top three it makes it significantly easier to add to your supporting cast.

Your second paragraph I completely agree with although I would shop Brassard.

I think this years draft is about 6-7 players deep. Would not be optimistic of getting what the Rangers needs if drafting 10th or higher. I am a big fan of Draisaitl and Virtanen.

I agree about Ekblad. I am wary of players that are too physically dominant. I usually like players that don't have to grow into their bodies over the opposite, but as long as they arent relying on their size.
It's easier, but many hockey minds will tell you that finding the right players to compliment stars is an art in itself. It takes a certain kind of player to relegate himself to the idea that he'll never be the best player on his line and he'll be forever a product of the star he's playing with.

Too early to say how deep the draft is. A lot can change in 9 months. I do really like Virtanen though. Reminds me a lot of Scott Hartnell, but is a much better skater and has a better release. One of the few prospects who project to be that nasty powerforward who can beat you with his body as well as his shot.

I think Ekblad will be great, but it's just always something I keep in the back of my mind with kids of that size. I'd gladly take him in the top two. Too hard to pass up that combination.

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10-21-2013, 07:29 AM
  #97
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It's easier, but many hockey minds will tell you that finding the right players to compliment stars is an art in itself. It takes a certain kind of player to relegate himself to the idea that he'll never be the best player on his line and he'll be forever a product of the star he's playing with.

Too early to say how deep the draft is. A lot can change in 9 months. I do really like Virtanen though. Reminds me a lot of Scott Hartnell, but is a much better skater and has a better release. One of the few prospects who project to be that nasty powerforward who can beat you with his body as well as his shot.

I think Ekblad will be great, but it's just always something I keep in the back of my mind with kids of that size. I'd gladly take him in the top two. Too hard to pass up that combination.
Agree with the first point. You really need to try to find guys that compliment what your players try to do, as opposed to just throwing the biggest name in there.

Virtanen to me reminds me a little of another former Calgary Hitman, Andrew Ladd, who I would have loved to have been a Ranger, definitely see the Hartnell comparison too.

Ekblad is in my top 2 for sure, I would just temper expectations of him as a rookie.

In no particular order the guys I like the most in the draft are Reinhart, Ekblad, Virtanen, Draisaitl and Nylander. Dal Colle, Ritchie and Bennett are okay and I also like Schmaltz if the Rangers get stuck in the middle of the draft.

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10-21-2013, 07:48 AM
  #98
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I just don't see us being out of it by the deadline. I'd be incredibly surprised to see this team be that bad. If this team is that bad, it means that Lundqvist is continuing to play like he currently is.
I do. I have a feeling Nash is out for a while and if that's the case, then this team is in serious trouble. Callahan out for a month? Hagelin still out. All it takes is 1 more injury.

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10-21-2013, 08:42 AM
  #99
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I do. I have a feeling Nash is out for a while and if that's the case, then this team is in serious trouble. Callahan out for a month? Hagelin still out. All it takes is 1 more injury.
If the Metro stays bad they could be in contention for a low playoff seed, but I don't see the point of fighting for a 6-8 seed, so I would back up the truck. Team isn't good enough and there are not a multitude of realistic trades to improve the team, and make it sustainable.

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10-21-2013, 08:57 AM
  #100
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Nash may remain out for awhile but I don't consider him damaged goods, nor am I worried about it in the future. It's uncommon to take a shoulder directly to the face and that hit probably concusses 90% of the players in the league.

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