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Kreider and Mashinter recalled to Rangers

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Old
10-20-2013, 11:06 PM
  #101
a tribe cq
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The Mashinter call up is great iah

He'll run all over the ice, drop if needed (saw him eat up Jansen live in the preseason), and can or at least may put the puck in the net.

We need these type of players to fill out the bottom six

The high intensity bottoms of lineups always wear down on top lines

We need to be hard to play against again

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Old
10-20-2013, 11:06 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
I'm generally not pessimistic about the Rangers recent drafting. They have done an admirable job with their early picks from non-premium draft positions, and found several late round gems. That said, I fully believe that the current state of this team is defined by 3 drafts, 1 in which they got incredibly unlucky, and 2 in which they just plain old ****ed up.

2003 - yes, this was a long time ago now, but literally half of that first round are all-stars. I will take the Jessiman regret to my grave since that was the first draft I really paid attention to.

2007 - bad luck, and a tragedy for such a promising young player. I remember my heart racing as Cherry started his fall into our laps - such a bummer.

2010 - I know people like to defend this one, but given the state of the team and the league, you cannot pass up on a talent like Tarasenko for a project defenseman whose player type has been largely marginalized in the modern NHL. That pick was a mistake.

Of course the entire trajectory of the team could/would have been different had they not swung and missed in Jessiman 10 years ago, but even if you take that potential player out of the equation, this current team looks a hell of a lot more balanced and dangerous with the two stud Russian wingers providing secondary (and maybe even primary) scoring.
Can we stop with the implication that all the Rangers needed to do to fix their scoring woes was draft Vladimir ****ing Tarasenko? Dear lord. The guy was passed up by like 18 other teams for a reason you know. It's easy to ***** about the pick in hindsight (for the record, I did not want Tarasenko), but the pick was only a "mistake" in that three years later, a hole that he would've filled is open. The Rangers of then weren't a scoring machine either, but for a John Tortorella team, would an enigmatic Russian have been what Sather wanted for his team? The scouting staff + Sather are not a group of stupid sieves just picked off the side of the road (although sometimes I wonder), they know the picks and prospects. I freaking love McIlrath and when he's breaking faces in the NHL, I seriously don't want to hear it from you guys that he's great. The 2003 draft and 2007 draft there's nothing to say, you're right. But wow, the McI hate will never end will it?

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10-20-2013, 11:09 PM
  #103
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This is about as lazy a point as possible. It reeks of the implication that all coaches are perfect and no informed fan can ever be right if a coach makes a decision. Awful point especially based on the reality of the last season and a half but why let reality get in the way of a lazy generalization?
How is it "lazy", when it's true? Are you arguing that people on this board are more knowledgeable than a veteran hockey coach of like 20 years? Give me a break. AV probably liked what he saw, and decided he should be in the NHL to help the team. Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

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10-20-2013, 11:18 PM
  #104
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Meh, Tarasenko was passed only because teams were afraid he wouldn't come over to North America. His dad was his coach in Russia and he was really happy there. Everyone knew he had top 3 talent. He's here now, and he's showing that he's very likely going to be a top 20 scorer in his prime. He has the entire package and he was exactly the kind of gamble that would have been intelligent for this team to make. It was a choice between gambling on a guy like McIlrath ever being more than #6/7 (waste of a #10 pick) or a guy like Tarasenko not coming over (waste of a #10 pick). We had a much greater need for a player like Tarasenko though as guys like McIlrath can be found, and not typically for a high cost. I'm not going to harp on it like some fans, but I disagree with saying Tarasenko was passed on "for a reason" or that he's only a better pick "in hindsight". Everyone knew how good Tarasenko was. The questions were whether he wanted to play in the NHL.

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10-20-2013, 11:19 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Can we stop with the implication that all the Rangers needed to do to fix their scoring woes was draft Vladimir ****ing Tarasenko? Dear lord. The guy was passed up by like 18 other teams for a reason you know. It's easy to ***** about the pick in hindsight (for the record, I did not want Tarasenko), but the pick was only a "mistake" in that three years later, a hole that he would've filled is open. The Rangers of then weren't a scoring machine either, but for a John Tortorella team, would an enigmatic Russian have been what Sather wanted for his team? The scouting staff + Sather are not a group of stupid sieves just picked off the side of the road (although sometimes I wonder), they know the picks and prospects. I freaking love McIlrath and when he's breaking faces in the NHL, I seriously don't want to hear it from you guys that he's great. The 2003 draft and 2007 draft there's nothing to say, you're right. But wow, the McI hate will never end will it?
Don't you know if we drafted tarasenko we would have won a cup by now....

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10-20-2013, 11:22 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
How is it "lazy", when it's true? Are you arguing that people on this board are more knowledgeable than a veteran hockey coach of like 20 years? Give me a break. AV probably liked what he saw, and decided he should be in the NHL to help the team. Your post makes no sense whatsoever.
I don't understand why AV watching one Hartford game before calling Kreider up is proof to some of you guys that he "liked what he saw" or that he's giving Kreider his stamp of approval. What options does he have? Who else was he going to call up? His team is performing horribly and has no top-six players healthy. He needs SOMEONE who can at least have a chance of scoring a goal. He can't just call up Mashinter and another plug and expect this team to produce any offense. For all you know, he watched, said to himself "hmm, no he's not really ready, we'll only bring him up for a short time, until we get healthy and than we're going to need to give him more time when we can afford to". Right now, what other options are there really? Kreider has NHL experience. The team is floundering. Calling up a guy whose equally not ready, and has zero experience in a guy like Kristo or Hrivik, isn't going to do the team much better.

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10-20-2013, 11:36 PM
  #107
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Tarasenko is enigmatic? Oh, that's right, he's Russian so yes. While I won't go so far as to say the Rangers would have won a Cup if they drafted him, I will go out on a limb and say that he alone is good enough to drastically alter the look of this lineup. The pick was a mistake, and this is not hindsight, go find the old draft threads.

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10-20-2013, 11:51 PM
  #108
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LMAO at wanting Haley instead of Mash...wow. Like it even matters.

Kreider should play top 6 minutes or else his recall is pointless. I am confident he will. I mean...who else will instead?

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Old
10-21-2013, 12:13 AM
  #109
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I don't understand all the love for Haley. Does it really make much of a difference whether it's him or Mashinter? They're both marginal players who will be asked to fill marginal roles.
I will not speak to Haley or Mashinter because Idk them well enough but I will say your dead wrong, its so competitive that every single player makes a difference even playing 5 mins.

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10-21-2013, 12:17 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
How is it "lazy", when it's true? Are you arguing that people on this board are more knowledgeable than a veteran hockey coach of like 20 years? Give me a break. AV probably liked what he saw, and decided he should be in the NHL to help the team. Your post makes no sense whatsoever.
Being a coach in the league does not make them god. Sather has been a GM for what 30 years and I can guarantee I would have made much better decesions in personal than he has done. Why because I wouldint base my whole view of a player on 1 play that he liked lol.

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10-21-2013, 12:20 AM
  #111
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Pretty sure the Kreider callup is something nobody here suspects or can even fathom.
Its a SHOWCASE folks
Pretty obvious IMO
Not kidding

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10-21-2013, 12:25 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Pretty sure the Kreider callup is something nobody here suspects or can even fathom.
Its a SHOWCASE folks
Pretty obvious IMO
Not kidding
Crossed my mind, but the truth is, I'm pretty sure we overestimate his current value and that there's not much to showcase. Not saying he doesn't still have plenty of potential, but I mean that any GM who wants to see what Kreider's got can watch tape of any of his NHL performances. He doesn't have anything new to show. He hasn't made a leap in his development. Showcasing Kreider barely makes sense. We're not going to get quality immediate help in return for Kreider so unless he's part of a package I really doubt we're going to see him moved right now.

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10-21-2013, 12:31 AM
  #113
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Kreider is not being show cased. That's crazy.

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10-21-2013, 12:31 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
Tarasenko is enigmatic? Oh, that's right, he's Russian so yes. While I won't go so far as to say the Rangers would have won a Cup if they drafted him, I will go out on a limb and say that he alone is good enough to drastically alter the look of this lineup. The pick was a mistake, and this is not hindsight, go find the old draft threads.
While I am one to always support sticking to your beliefs in scouting, and being original in a field that is usually peer pressured, this team should have went for the best talent on the board. **** Gordie and Gorton's egos and wanna be genius mentality, go with the consensus.

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10-21-2013, 12:57 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft Guru View Post
Kreider is not being show cased. That's crazy.
Welcome to Ranger land
Where crazy is normal
And normal is a crazy dream

Quote:
Originally Posted by SERE 24 View Post
Crossed my mind, but the truth is, I'm pretty sure we overestimate his current value and that there's not much to showcase. Not saying he doesn't still have plenty of potential, but I mean that any GM who wants to see what Kreider's got can watch tape of any of his NHL performances. He doesn't have anything new to show. He hasn't made a leap in his development. Showcasing Kreider barely makes sense. We're not going to get quality immediate help in return for Kreider so unless he's part of a package I really doubt we're going to see him moved right now.
Pretty sure that would be the plan. Package Kreider, a pick (or another prospect) and someone else on the roster for proven NHL offensive talent. With evident flaws that disintegrate his value totally & immediately when arriving in NYC of course


Last edited by BBKers: 10-21-2013 at 01:04 AM.
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Old
10-21-2013, 01:15 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Welcome to Ranger land
Where crazy is normal
And normal is a crazy dream



Pretty sure that would be the plan. Package Kreider, a pick (or another prospect) and someone else on the roster for proven NHL offensive talent. With evident flaws that disintegrate his value totally & immediately when arriving in NYC of course
haha....That last sentence is so sad yet true

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10-21-2013, 02:07 AM
  #117
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Well, we want youth, here it is. Fast, Miller, and Kreider all have that opportunity right now. If they can't take advantage of this, then we really are in deep crap not only in the present but for the foreseeable future.
Too much to say and not enough minutes. One last time:

AV's system, like all systems is flawed but does have a track record. It works. However, it requires SPEED.

Some Rangers have basic speed, rest are too slow.
Guys like Girardi, not a particularly bad fit (though others are a better fit, because his principal job is shot blocking as part of D, and that is not radically changed in any system).

The problem is the talent and skill of our Fs, which is exacerbated w/current injuries.

The two Fs we have w/the best motors (besides injured Hags + Cally) are Miller + Kreider. Thus, it is not open to discussion, the best way to exploit the system we are using AND have a synergistic effect is to pair these 2. Miller has shown he is comfortable enough at either spot, so he is the C. Kreider was an effective C, and once it became clear he also developed a shot, we directed him to W, saying it would less responsibility for him. That may be true, but I have always maintained at C, without a board to use to restrict his skating, Kreider might be even more effective. That supplemental posture, whether or not Kreider can ultimately be another Patrick Sharp, is something that can be considered after he is settled in at W.

But we CANNOT have either of these guys w the likes of Boyle (still useful but prefer he is traded for a 2nd round pick or equiv.) or esp. Pyatt, AND AV, LISTEN UP, DON'T BE AN EXPLETIVE DELETED IDIOT, I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S RUMP IF YOU ARE THE COACH, Pyatt is not the best filler for this club on the lower 6 (Yogan and others are better options), BUT IN NO CASE CAN YOU RUIN TOP TALENT WITH THESE GUYS. LET THAT SINK IN AND GIVE IT UP!!!!

These are the lines that need to be run (if all available, since we are stuck w Richards when we should have bought him out and not incurred the risk he would turn into another Pronger on us):

1st Richards - Brassard - Nash
2nd Kreider - Miller - Callahan
3rd Hagelin - Lindberg - Fast
4th Yogan - Moore - Haley/Asham

Yogan I don't want to lose for nothing. Get value, if you want, trade him AFTER his value is established after he's played. Don't let him walk for nothing.

trade Stepan + MDZ + for Seth Jones +
Boyle get a 2nd
Dorsett looked good last year, this year COMPLETELY out of it. See if he brings a 3rd rounder.
Pouilot needs a wake up call, AHL, or trade.

Give away Pyatt, Powe, Zucarello (not enough speed for offense except as shoot out specialist and not good enough defense vs NHL size opposition), these guys give away (conditional 7th not realized), just for the added cap space.
--------
With Nash, Hags and Cally all injured atm, and Kristo reportedly a year away at earliest, I would consider Hrivik and St. Croix to hold the fort. Might get lucky, catch fire.

Also, while the current state of the Rangers is not the time to do it, before the end of the year, I'd give Bourque his 5-10 games cup of coffee; he may be physically crushed if he lasts that many games, but he will bust his ass and, while a lightweight, will provide speed.

But the single most important thing now about Kreider is to play him w/Miller.

And AV, STOP WITH THIS CRAZINESS ABOUT DEFLECTIONS OFF THE SCREEN.

It is an acquired skill. You see a guy and you think, wow this guy could be another Rod Carew. But then you see he can't bunt. And you are adamant that you are going to drop everything and make this guy NOW learn how to bunt. The guy could be friggin Bryce Harper, but you are going to break him.

That kind of crap, my way or the highway, should have left w/Torts.

You want a big body type to work on deflections, fine, but it's something you work on over time as a side thing in practice.

There were 3 things Kreider did during preseason: play w/Miller - looked great; do the deflections thing, not so much; and complement Pyatt and Boyle. Kreider did as he was told and met expectations. He should not brought up here to play on the 4th line, or with 4th liners.

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10-21-2013, 02:36 AM
  #118
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Don't you know if we drafted tarasenko we would have won a cup by now....
Only one?

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10-21-2013, 05:01 AM
  #119
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Too much to say and not enough minutes. One last time:

AV's system, like all systems is flawed but does have a track record. It works. However, it requires SPEED.

Some Rangers have basic speed, rest are too slow.
Guys like Girardi, not a particularly bad fit (though others are a better fit, because his principal job is shot blocking as part of D, and that is not radically changed in any system).

The problem is the talent and skill of our Fs, which is exacerbated w/current injuries.

The two Fs we have w/the best motors (besides injured Hags + Cally) are Miller + Kreider. Thus, it is not open to discussion, the best way to exploit the system we are using AND have a synergistic effect is to pair these 2. Miller has shown he is comfortable enough at either spot, so he is the C. Kreider was an effective C, and once it became clear he also developed a shot, we directed him to W, saying it would less responsibility for him. That may be true, but I have always maintained at C, without a board to use to restrict his skating, Kreider might be even more effective. That supplemental posture, whether or not Kreider can ultimately be another Patrick Sharp, is something that can be considered after he is settled in at W.

But we CANNOT have either of these guys w the likes of Boyle (still useful but prefer he is traded for a 2nd round pick or equiv.) or esp. Pyatt, AND AV, LISTEN UP, DON'T BE AN EXPLETIVE DELETED IDIOT, I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S RUMP IF YOU ARE THE COACH, Pyatt is not the best filler for this club on the lower 6 (Yogan and others are better options), BUT IN NO CASE CAN YOU RUIN TOP TALENT WITH THESE GUYS. LET THAT SINK IN AND GIVE IT UP!!!!

These are the lines that need to be run (if all available, since we are stuck w Richards when we should have bought him out and not incurred the risk he would turn into another Pronger on us):

1st Richards - Brassard - Nash
2nd Kreider - Miller - Callahan
3rd Hagelin - Lindberg - Fast
4th Yogan - Moore - Haley/Asham

Yogan I don't want to lose for nothing. Get value, if you want, trade him AFTER his value is established after he's played. Don't let him walk for nothing.

trade Stepan + MDZ + for Seth Jones +
Boyle get a 2nd
Dorsett looked good last year, this year COMPLETELY out of it. See if he brings a 3rd rounder.
Pouilot needs a wake up call, AHL, or trade.

Give away Pyatt, Powe, Zucarello (not enough speed for offense except as shoot out specialist and not good enough defense vs NHL size opposition), these guys give away (conditional 7th not realized), just for the added cap space.
--------
With Nash, Hags and Cally all injured atm, and Kristo reportedly a year away at earliest, I would consider Hrivik and St. Croix to hold the fort. Might get lucky, catch fire.

Also, while the current state of the Rangers is not the time to do it, before the end of the year, I'd give Bourque his 5-10 games cup of coffee; he may be physically crushed if he lasts that many games, but he will bust his ass and, while a lightweight, will provide speed.

But the single most important thing now about Kreider is to play him w/Miller.

And AV, STOP WITH THIS CRAZINESS ABOUT DEFLECTIONS OFF THE SCREEN.

It is an acquired skill. You see a guy and you think, wow this guy could be another Rod Carew. But then you see he can't bunt. And you are adamant that you are going to drop everything and make this guy NOW learn how to bunt. The guy could be friggin Bryce Harper, but you are going to break him.

That kind of crap, my way or the highway, should have left w/Torts.

You want a big body type to work on deflections, fine, but it's something you work on over time as a side thing in practice.

There were 3 things Kreider did during preseason: play w/Miller - looked great; do the deflections thing, not so much; and complement Pyatt and Boyle. Kreider did as he was told and met expectations. He should not brought up here to play on the 4th line, or with 4th liners.
Go to sleep....your delirious

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10-21-2013, 05:11 AM
  #120
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Not a big fan of Russian players and more and more they leave early to go back to the KHL. McIlrath was the right pick. If nobody has noticed, this team has had Nash and McDonagh run badly the last two years and nobody on this team did a damn thing. Other teams aren't afraid to take runs like that. McIlrath will change that. McIlrath is the kind of player that doesn't need to come in at 22. He's not the kind of player you have to worry about when he's 32 with his offensive skills declining. What he does he should be able to do very well until 35.

There was a Devil standing right in front of Lundqvist the other game, two Rangers defenseman were right there and never attempted to move him. Disgusting. Players like McIlrath don't play like that. I never feel when other teams forwards skate across our blueline that they run the risk of being leveled. McIlrath will change that. He's going to struggle with his puck handling at the NHL level for a year. Who cares. The guy is a very good skater for his size and he destroys people with open ice hitting. This team badly needs what he brings.

I don't think Kreider is being showcased. I think the Rangers already love Allen who is playing very well at Hartford. I think he can fill the spot of MDZ. I think what you are looking at is a MDZ-Boyle-Zuccarello package for one wing. Who that is I have no idea. It is unlikely but the Flyers and the Rangers are ideal partners right now. The Flyers badly need a defenseman and a checking center. Sather has always loved Simmonds. He tried to get him from the Kings. If you can get past his 6 year contract which is not a huge cap hit, that package for Simmonds makes a lot of sense.

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10-21-2013, 05:41 AM
  #121
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So what do the lines possibly look like with these callups?

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10-21-2013, 05:48 AM
  #122
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I think people look at McI as just a big D-man who's sole purpose is to crush people. We all knew he was going to be a project but he is coming along very nicely.

He skates very well for someone his size and makes good first passes. Not to mention he has a pretty good shot as well. This is on top of his ability to clear the crease, make clean punishing checks and fight.

From the games I've watched he needs to work on his gap control and improve his stick work a bit. I think he will be a good top four D-man for this team. He could see a call up later this season or definitely makes the team out of camp next season.

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10-21-2013, 06:00 AM
  #123
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McLI has pretty much as many points this year as he did all of last year already. Him and/or Allen will get a shot around Christmas time and if they do, Girardi or Del Z may be on the way out.

As for lines, please please PLEASE AV try something like this;

Richards-Brassard-Fast
Kreider-Stepan-Miller/Zuc
Boyle with Pyatt, Miller/Zuc
Mashinter-Moore-Dorsett

Poulliot scratched.

I know he won't and there's a decent chance Pyatt gets top six minutes still and that Fast gets scratched but if he wants to create offense now, Pyatt is too slow for the top six and you need Fast and Kreider to create something on the cycle or at least be given the opportunity to do so.

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10-21-2013, 06:42 AM
  #124
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Kreider was better in the AHL. He has gotten better and better with his AHL stints. Stronger on puck. He can retrieve pucks and make a play. Go the net or set up a teammate. Its either give Kreider and Milller top minutes in New York or in Hartford. There is no else in the organization. How many organizations can lose three of their top 6/7 forwards and not feel it? Lets be honest about that. Be patient with the young guys. If they have a bad game,play them in the same spot in the next game. The veteran guys are rolled out on a nightly basis and they don't accomplish much. The young guys have a chance to improve. Teach them and work with them. Might as well start planning for the future now. Get a head start.

Put Kreider with Stepan.

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10-21-2013, 07:08 AM
  #125
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Quote:
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So what do the lines possibly look like with these callups?
Hm...

Pyatt - Stepan - _________
Kreider - Brassard - Pouliot
Miller/Fast - Boyle - Zuccarello
Mash - Moore - Dorsett

is what I would do.

Double up on physicality with Mash and Dorsett, and sit Fast against the Flyers.

Still yet to be impressed at all with Miller in this call up.

*sigh* I knew these lines looked weird. Plugged in Cally by accident, and forgot Richards.


Last edited by silverfish: 10-21-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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