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St. Louis Blues @ Winnipeg Jets | FSMW - TSN - Y98 FM | 7:00 PM CST

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10-20-2013, 05:19 AM
  #526
bluesman11
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Originally Posted by Izzy Mandelbaum View Post
We're already behind in terms of games played. By the time we get finished this week off, we'll have like 4-5 less games played than everyone else.
Things that make you go hmmm...

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Old
10-20-2013, 08:59 AM
  #527
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November is a busy month for us. A lot of games.

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10-20-2013, 10:11 AM
  #528
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first goal was 100% possible to save if he gets in front of the puck instead of trying to grab it, but those types of things happen. 2nd goal was fluky too and the third goal happened after the team just collapsed into the middle of the ice and let them do whatever they wanted with the puck.
Agreed. That first goal was totally on Elliott he gave up that huge rebound and misplayed the flutter shot. I know it was his first game but come on.

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10-20-2013, 10:49 AM
  #529
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So giving up 1-2 goals is negative? last time I checked, a 2.00 GAA was pretty dang good.
I'm not sure what part of my post wasn't clear. We're not talking about a season, we're talking about one game.

The Blues had everything going their way when the first goal was scored for the Jets and yes it absolutely should have been saved.

Nothing you can do about the second as stated. Just bad luck.

I'd have to go back and look but I don't think he was really screened on the third.

But despite all that, the Blues score twice in a row in the shootout and we need one save......and he lets in a very soft 5 hole goal.

Was Elliott horrible? No, but it wasn't like he was let down by the offense either. On a season long basis, you're right. But it wasn't a good game and he absolutely shares in the blame.

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Old
10-20-2013, 02:41 PM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falco Lombardi View Post
I'm not sure what part of my post wasn't clear. We're not talking about a season, we're talking about one game.

The Blues had everything going their way when the first goal was scored for the Jets and yes it absolutely should have been saved.

Nothing you can do about the second as stated. Just bad luck.

I'd have to go back and look but I don't think he was really screened on the third.

But despite all that, the Blues score twice in a row in the shootout and we need one save......and he lets in a very soft 5 hole goal.

Was Elliott horrible? No, but it wasn't like he was let down by the offense either. On a season long basis, you're right. But it wasn't a good game and he absolutely shares in the blame.
He also made 4 stops in a row in the shootout to keep the Blues in it and the shooters couldn't capitalize. Obviously he shares the blame, but not as much as your post seems to imply.

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Old
10-20-2013, 04:52 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82 View Post
He also made 4 stops in a row in the shootout to keep the Blues in it and the shooters couldn't capitalize. Obviously he shares the blame, but not as much as your post seems to imply.
Agreed.

Elliot played very well in the shootout and gave the Blues multiple chances to win. I don't see any argument against that statement outside one shot. But the people complaining about that one shot are not taking into account his larger body of work in that shootout.

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Old
10-20-2013, 06:07 PM
  #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivoshy 1774 View Post
Agreed. That first goal was totally on Elliott he gave up that huge rebound and misplayed the flutter shot. I know it was his first game but come on.
That's the type of goal that will happen to every goalie. He was more than fine for the rest of the game.

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10-20-2013, 06:14 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Falco Lombardi View Post
I'm not sure what part of my post wasn't clear. We're not talking about a season, we're talking about one game.

The Blues had everything going their way when the first goal was scored for the Jets and yes it absolutely should have been saved.

Nothing you can do about the second as stated. Just bad luck.

I'd have to go back and look but I don't think he was really screened on the third.

But despite all that, the Blues score twice in a row in the shootout and we need one save......and he lets in a very soft 5 hole goal.

Was Elliott horrible? No, but it wasn't like he was let down by the offense either. On a season long basis, you're right. But it wasn't a good game and he absolutely shares in the blame.
And then he makes 4 stops in a row in which the Blues can't capitalize on any of those chances.

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10-20-2013, 08:04 PM
  #534
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Yes Elliott made saves in the shootout. He's to blame for the soft goal.

I don't get the argument that he's somehow less to blame than anyone else. He's equally at fault. Anytime this team scores 3 goals, they should win. They just should.

He's no less at fault, he's no more at fault. What is so wrong about that? I don't get why he's somehow less responsible than anyone else.

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10-20-2013, 09:13 PM
  #535
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Lol, I love the two extremes of Elliott. There's the hate group who thinks he's absolutely awful and should be traded for a 7th rounder, and then the group that constantly defends him and is convinced we could go to the Stanley Cup with him as our starter.

Both sides are completely wrong, but it's fun to watch them argue after just about every game he plays.

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10-20-2013, 09:44 PM
  #536
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Elliott played mediocre, which is exactly what he is.

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10-20-2013, 09:59 PM
  #537
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Elliott played mediocre, which is exactly what he is.
Exactly

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Old
10-20-2013, 11:19 PM
  #538
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Lol, I love the two extremes of Elliott. There's the hate group who thinks he's absolutely awful and should be traded for a 7th rounder, and then the group that constantly defends him and is convinced we could go to the Stanley Cup with him as our starter.

Both sides are completely wrong, but it's fun to watch them argue after just about every game he plays.
It is not that cut and dry. There are plenty of people who see him for what he is a good to decent backup. Just because that group isn't as vocal in these debates doesn't mean they having made their thoughts known.

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Old
10-20-2013, 11:42 PM
  #539
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It is not that cut and dry. There are plenty of people who see him for what he is a good to decent backup. Just because that group isn't as vocal in these debates doesn't mean they having made their thoughts known.
Exactly. He's a decent back-up. But, due to Halak having missed a lot of games due to injury, I think a lot of us would not feel confident having Elliott be The Blues' starter during the playoff run and/or in the playoffs.

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Old
10-21-2013, 12:13 AM
  #540
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It is not that cut and dry. There are plenty of people who see him for what he is a good to decent backup. Just because that group isn't as vocal in these debates doesn't mean they having made their thoughts known.
Yeah, that's my point. Those people aren't vocal about it, so you have the two extremes arguing.

He's a good backup, but nothing more really.

The problem is basically the situation he's in. If Halak could stay healthy, he wouldn't have to start for us in the playoffs. On the other hand, if Allen didn't have such a bright future, more people would be content with keeping him around.

He's basically just caught in a similar numbers game that other players have been in before. While he's on the team, it seems unlikely that we will be able to commit to him after this year.

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10-21-2013, 01:10 AM
  #541
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Short time lurker here, just registered.

I wanted to pile onto the 1rst-goal-against comments. Elliott was absolutely not in position to make that glove save and it was his fault. Naturally these things happen, but one would hope they are limited to once per career, and hopefully this experience will stick with him. The high wobbly rebound was not his fault as he played that dump-in shot properly. When an NHLer dumps a shot on net from outside the zone it is about the hardest shot you will ever see in-game. If it is as low and flat as that shot was, the only thing a goalie can do is have his thigh risers together and stick slightly angled out at the bottom; there's no handling that rebound. The puck hammered his stick and then his body, finally making that unfortunate bobbling arc towards the right circle. Elliott's mistake was to not come out, or even be in good position to the puck where it was going to drop. He would have had a 90% chance of gloving the funkiest rainbow shot if his skate blades were at least on the crease line in that scenario. There was no pressure from the left side as the first shooter had held up. Jokinen had a Blue's player front and back of him so it would be unlikely he could have pulled off a strong move to the net, either.

I'm pro Elliott, primarily due to his amazing season in 11/12. There has to be something good there to play that well for that long. Overall he let in one really bad goal and the team didn't capitalize on an otherwise dominating performance, so Hitch should be pushing everybody to get it together for the Canucks at home next week. They just lost to Columbus, BTW, so apparently poop happens outside of STL.

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Old
10-21-2013, 07:09 AM
  #542
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Yup, need to get your body in front of that, but then again, if anyone has seen Mighty Ducks 2 you'd know how hard it is to stop a knucklepuck.

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10-21-2013, 09:15 AM
  #543
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thigh risers
lol

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Old
10-21-2013, 04:49 PM
  #544
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10-21-2013, 05:13 PM
  #545
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Agreed.

Elliot played very well in the shootout and gave the Blues multiple chances to win. I don't see any argument against that statement outside one shot. But the people complaining about that one shot are not taking into account his larger body of work in that shootout.
This. I can't complain about his game, and he was stellar in the shoot out. Maybe if Reaves would have went after Peluso we would have had a different outcome...ha ha.

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Old
10-21-2013, 05:36 PM
  #546
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Elliott should have stopped the first one, but that is the issue when you have a goaltender who is not a completely fundamentally solid goaltender. Elliott is very much a reactionary goaltender which is why he has the wild swings between being locked in completely and unable to stop a beachball (or as I call the latter: Cloutiering) and his odd positioning came to play on that first goal.

Regardless of that though, the Blues need to find that final push when they are staring a win in the face from 5 minutes away. The killer instinct they exhibited earlier was absent and that cannot happen, no matter how tired a team is.
But even that was understandable...but I do not understand is this:
Hitch sent out the following skaters for the shootout:

Oshie -- good
Steen -- fine
Tarasenko -- good (at some point he will figure these out)
Sobotka -- huh? (I can almost understand this, I disagree but I understand)
Shattenkirk -- fine
Berglund -- W...T...F?
Stewart -- No.

Where was Schwartz? Roy? Pietrangelo? I would put Jackman out there before Berglund...I would put my long dead grandfather out there before entering Berglund's name for the shootout list.

That part of the game I put the blame squarely on Hitch's shoulders.

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Old
10-21-2013, 05:49 PM
  #547
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Berglund looked pretty good on his penalty shot last season.

Eh, the Blues should never have gone to OT in this game. There was some mental fatigue, a bad bounce or two, but they need to put games away in the 3rd period.

What I see is: the Blues are now a team that other teams in the league circle mentally as a top team, and St Louis is going to see focused efforts. The Blues will not sneak up on anyone ever again.

I'm not going to overreact to the disappointing last 10 minutes vs Winnipeg (and give the Jets credit for playing hard and making their own luck). I'm more impressed by the response vs Chicago after the San Jose game than I am down on the mental let-down.

Hitchcock is still building the Blues into form. I really don't think we've seen them clicking on all cylinders yet, despite having a few good outcomes in games. I also think Elliott wasn't as sharp as we've seen him at times, but maybe that's unrealistic for a back-up who is only going to see sporadic starts. Either way, he gave the team a chance to win and they should have done it. How many posts did the Blues hit, like 6?

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10-21-2013, 05:56 PM
  #548
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Sobotka was by far the worst choice. The other guys are at least skilled top 6 players.

I don't know what the hell Berglund's deal is in the shootout but isn't he like 3 for 3 on penalty shots or something?

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10-21-2013, 05:58 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Berglund looked pretty good on his penalty shot last season.
Yes, but looks like crap every single shootout. He should be pulling the Forsberg move on goaltenders every time he can get away with it...instead he gets in too close and lets a fast but not terribly worthwhile shot go.

They just aren't his thing.

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10-21-2013, 06:01 PM
  #550
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Sobotka was by far the worst choice. The other guys are at least skilled top 6 players.

I don't know what the hell Berglund's deal is in the shootout but isn't he like 3 for 3 on penalty shots or something?
Thing is, in a shootout, Sobotka's slow as a snail shot is mitigated by his noticeably improved hands. I too would not have put him out there but I can see a coach thinking that perhaps with that better puck control is the possibility of him dekeing a goalie out...in particular since there is likely very little to no available tape of him in solo on a goalie.

I found it less frustrating than Berglund for certain who, as you correctly note, is money on penalty shots and breakaways.

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