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Infirmary [UPD: Gazdic (Shoulder), Petry (Shoulder), Ference (Arm)]

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Old
10-21-2013, 02:30 PM
  #176
joestevens29
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Nobody claimed that having an enforcer would stop all injuries. Simply that there would be less cheap shots if Eakins sends the enforcers out after the guy that did it. Eakins didn't send Gazdic after Gryba...
I didn't really get why not?

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10-21-2013, 02:41 PM
  #177
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Nobody claimed that having an enforcer would stop all injuries. Simply that there would be less cheap shots if Eakins sends the enforcers out after the guy that did it. Eakins didn't send Gazdic after Gryba...
This is it. Deterrents are only as good as your willingness to use them.

Even on clean hits, good teams stand up for their stars. Against PIT, Nick Schultz gingerly bumped Crosby and there was a swarm on him in seconds.

It won't eliminate cheap shots and hits. But it might cut down on the number with guys not thinking the Oilers are a hitting freebie. And the fewer hits a player takes the less likely they will get hurt.

The other side of the equation, our team takes all the hits and doesn't dish them out. Man I wish Sutton's knee held out another season or two.

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10-21-2013, 02:59 PM
  #178
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Brown deserves billing in this post. lol at seeing him get rag dolled out there in his enforcer role. jebus, its bad when you need enforcers to protect the enforcer. Brown is hopeless. Can't win a fight, can't win a puck battle, can't win an after whistle scrum.

Why is he here?

Gazdik certainly looking underwhelming in recent games as well. Not sure if complacency but has hit already.

Good thing the team is tough and has protection from harm now.. Sens were running us into the boards all day and not even a response.
And he gets stuck out way late on his shifts.

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10-21-2013, 03:32 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
And he gets stuck out way late on his shifts.
He's looked really passive too after being owly in his first games here. Not sure what it is.

maybe he's staying out because he recognizes it as his shift per period.

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10-21-2013, 03:35 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Nobody claimed that having an enforcer would stop all injuries. Simply that there would be less cheap shots if Eakins sends the enforcers out after the guy that did it. Eakins didn't send Gazdic after Gryba...
Actually I've heard many magical things that enforcers are supposedly able to do by their supporters.

a) yes reduce injuries. Because other teams are scared by enforcers that our stars will be able play more games because they will be hit less. Ottawa sure didn't see intimidated by Gazdic in the lineup did they? they hit Hall, Eberle, Hemsky and every single one of the Oilers at every opportunity, leading to Hall's injury. The Sens were hitting the Oilers BEFORE Hall's injury and after, regardless of this so called intimidation.

b) that the Oiler players will be happier. This happiness I guess will somehow extend into better playing but I haven't seen that with the arrival Mac or Gazdic.

c) that other teams will be intimidated by our enforcers so we can now punish other teams. Yup, other teams look like they're running scared when they play the Oil.

The Oilers picked up the toughest enforcer in the league SteveMac who promptly got injured. Then they have Gazdic. And Brown, so 1.5 enforcers. Aside from running around in their own zone, How is that working so far?

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Old
10-21-2013, 03:38 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by nullterm View Post
This is it. Deterrents are only as good as your willingness to use them.

Even on clean hits, good teams stand up for their stars. Against PIT, Nick Schultz gingerly bumped Crosby and there was a swarm on him in seconds.

It won't eliminate cheap shots and hits. But it might cut down on the number with guys not thinking the Oilers are a hitting freebie. And the fewer hits a player takes the less likely they will get hurt.

The other side of the equation, our team takes all the hits and doesn't dish them out. Man I wish Sutton's knee held out another season or two.
There's a difference. When Crosby got hit, did Engellund come over the boards and glare angrily at the Oilers? No, every single teammate came in for Crosby. That's Team Toughness, not One Enforcer.

When Ryan Smyth barrelled in to drag the guy off Perron last game (and got a ridiculous penalty for it), that's what the Oilers have to do more. Not just one guy, but everyone.

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10-21-2013, 03:45 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
There's a difference. When Crosby got hit, did Engellund come over the boards and glare angrily at the Oilers? No, every single teammate came in for Crosby. That's Team Toughness, not One Enforcer.

When Ryan Smyth barrelled in to drag the guy off Perron last game (and got a ridiculous penalty for it), that's what the Oilers have to do more. Not just one guy, but everyone.
Like this? Penner, Hemsky and Gilbert did "something" about it this time. Pretty sure the Kings still regularly curb stomp the Oil though.


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Old
10-21-2013, 04:00 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
Like this? Penner, Hemsky and Gilbert did "something" about it this time. Pretty sure the Kings still regularly curb stomp the Oil though.
If we want to emulate what the Penguins did to protect Crosby, then yes like that. The reality is that unless you have the rare skilled enforcer like Lucic or Chara who can play with your skilled guys, enforcers will not be on the ice the same time when someone hits Hall, or Eberle etc. That means whoever happens to be on the ice at the same time has to come in, en masse.

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10-21-2013, 04:01 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
There's a difference. When Crosby got hit, did Engellund come over the boards and glare angrily at the Oilers? No, every single teammate came in for Crosby. That's Team Toughness, not One Enforcer.

When Ryan Smyth barrelled in to drag the guy off Perron last game (and got a ridiculous penalty for it), that's what the Oilers have to do more. Not just one guy, but everyone.
I agree. We need both.

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10-21-2013, 05:40 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
Actually I've heard many magical things that enforcers are supposedly able to do by their supporters.

a) yes reduce injuries. Because other teams are scared by enforcers that our stars will be able play more games because they will be hit less. Ottawa sure didn't see intimidated by Gazdic in the lineup did they? they hit Hall, Eberle, Hemsky and every single one of the Oilers at every opportunity, leading to Hall's injury. The Sens were hitting the Oilers BEFORE Hall's injury and after, regardless of this so called intimidation.

b) that the Oiler players will be happier. This happiness I guess will somehow extend into better playing but I haven't seen that with the arrival Mac or Gazdic.

c) that other teams will be intimidated by our enforcers so we can now punish other teams. Yup, other teams look like they're running scared when they play the Oil.

The Oilers picked up the toughest enforcer in the league SteveMac who promptly got injured. Then they have Gazdic. And Brown, so 1.5 enforcers. Aside from running around in their own zone, How is that working so far?
What would you know about how enforcers impact the game?

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10-21-2013, 05:51 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
What would you know about how enforcers impact the game?
Wait, are you suggesting that players would know more about the impact of enforcers than some random fan?! Ridiculous!

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10-21-2013, 06:01 PM
  #187
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San Jose is a big tough team with a bunch of customers you wouldn't want to deal with in a dark alley.

Didn't stop Lapierre from driving Boyle's face into the boards.

Rats and dirty hits aren't going to be deterred no matter who you put on the ice.

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Old
10-21-2013, 06:01 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Wait, are you suggesting that players would know more about the impact of enforcers than some random fan?! Ridiculous!
Just find it strange that someone can be so confident they are right, so much so that they can actually mock those who suggest there could be some positives that come from having some extra confidence as a result of having someone who can "have their back" so to speak.

Just wondering if they are speaking from personal experience?

Ive heard actual nhl players say that having "tough guys" in the lineup gives them added confidence.

Seems to conflict with what the poster is saying. Maybe he could clear that up for us?

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10-21-2013, 06:14 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
San Jose is a big tough team with a bunch of customers you wouldn't want to deal with in a dark alley.

Didn't stop Lapierre from driving Boyle's face into the boards.

Rats and dirty hits aren't going to be deterred no matter who you put on the ice.
Has anybody ever actually looked at whether or not having a bunch of goons/fighters/hitters actually deters the same behaviour in the opposition?

It's funny how so many people seem to assume that it does but I'm not aware of any statistics that actually prove this and I think you might be right. Actually, maybe having a bunch of goons actually leads to more checking, fights and injuries.

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10-21-2013, 06:44 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Just find it strange that someone can be so confident they are right, so much so that they can actually mock those who suggest there could be some positives that come from having some extra confidence as a result of having someone who can "have their back" so to speak.

Just wondering if they are speaking from personal experience?

Ive heard actual nhl players say that having "tough guys" in the lineup gives them added confidence.

Seems to conflict with what the poster is saying. Maybe he could clear that up for us?
Have a said a million times there are only two things that are true enforces, a deadly powerplay and a guy who can hit. There is no doubt that both those will limit the liberties other teams take. I just don't see fighting doing anything. It is a sideshow half the time and the other half it is just guys getting over aggressive.

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10-21-2013, 06:50 PM
  #191
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Have a said a million times there are only two things that are true enforces, a deadly powerplay and a guy who can hit. There is no doubt that both those will limit the liberties other teams take. I just don't see fighting doing anything. It is a sideshow half the time and the other half it is just guys getting over aggressive.
Have you ever truly been in a situation where if you do something you know you probably shouldnt, that someone much bigger and tougher than you is going to come over and grab you and likely beat your face in?

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10-21-2013, 06:50 PM
  #192
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Have a said a million times there are only two things that are true enforces, a deadly powerplay and a guy who can hit. There is no doubt that both those will limit the liberties other teams take. I just don't see fighting doing anything. It is a sideshow half the time and the other half it is just guys getting over aggressive.
This team could sure use a lot of J.Smith, Moreau, Peca and Torres in their prime. That 2005/2006 Oilers sure did have a lot of grit.

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10-21-2013, 06:56 PM
  #193
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Any word on injury yet?

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10-21-2013, 06:58 PM
  #194
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Have you ever truly been in a situation where if you do something you know you probably shouldnt, that someone much bigger and tougher than you is going to come over and grab you and likely beat your face in?
The league is full of rats and there isn't anyone grabbing them and smashing their face in.

It's circular logic. We need goons so that players don't feel threatened by goons. In reality the goons aren't actually doing anything.

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10-21-2013, 07:00 PM
  #195
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Yet the league is full of rats and there isn't anyone grabbing them and smashing their face in.

It's circular logic. We need goons so that players don't feel threatened by goons. In reality the goons aren't actually doing anything.
Lets say you did find yourself in that situation, would you rather...............have someone with you who is just as big and tough as the guy coming to beat your face in, or perhaps another smallish guy who is fun to talk to and hang out with but is really not going to help you if the big guy grabs you and starts beating your face into hamburger?

As per your point, yes, this was pointed out by many who opposed the "instigator" rule. Something that was brought in by a bunch of pimply faced lawyers and rich owners who never ever had to put their own ***** on the line even once.

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10-21-2013, 07:04 PM
  #196
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The league is full of rats and there isn't anyone grabbing them and smashing their face in.

It's circular logic. We need goons so that players don't feel threatened by goons. In reality the goons aren't actually doing anything.
Case in point, after Lapierre blasted Boyle, he simply skated away from all the Sharks players.

Torres blows Hossa up and they didn't even go after him until well after the fact, and by that point the damage was already done. The hawks aren't exactly a small team either.

It's going to happen as long as the league doesn't do anything about it.

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10-21-2013, 07:07 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Just find it strange that someone can be so confident they are right, so much so that they can actually mock those who suggest there could be some positives that come from having some extra confidence as a result of having someone who can "have their back" so to speak.

Just wondering if they are speaking from personal experience?

Ive heard actual nhl players say that having "tough guys" in the lineup gives them added confidence.

Seems to conflict with what the poster is saying. Maybe he could clear that up for us?
Have you ever heard an NHL player say he is going to tone his game down for fear of getting beat up?

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10-21-2013, 07:11 PM
  #198
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Have you ever heard an NHL player say he is going to tone his game down for fear of getting beat up?
What do you think the likelihood of that would be?

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10-21-2013, 07:16 PM
  #199
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I predict two weeks.

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10-21-2013, 07:17 PM
  #200
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Have you ever heard an NHL player say he is going to tone his game down for fear of getting beat up?
Yrs ago when the Browns , Proberts , semenkos of the NHL would beat a player to a pulp....then pick him back up and beat him some more for a cheap shot.leading to a line brawl,or the benches clearing......but now there is the instigator rules....helmet rules...lengthy suspensions....no leaving the bench......fighting has lost its true purpose of protecting players and is just for fan excitement

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