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Patrick Holland and Mike Blunden Called Up (UPD: And Nathan Beaulieu)

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Old
10-21-2013, 10:39 PM
  #126
onice
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Still early. Gregoire is dominating, but that's about it. We'll see. I allready know that in the end of the day, I'll be right. You honnestly think that all these players will have some sort of impact at the NHL level? That would be too good to be true. 1 may have an impact, 2 may be role player, and the rest will probably be bust, AHLer or Europeen leaguers, or in the best case scenario have a cup of coffee in the NHL. It's always like that.
That's not what I said. I responded to your post where you assumed we had no good prospects because none of our prospects were dominating in their leagues. I posted 8 players that were doing excellent in their respective leagues.

Obviously they are not all going to continue this production into the NHL but what team right now has 8 prospects that will eventually dominate the NHL. The answer is none yet you expect the Habs to have a slew of prospects that will all turn out to be dragon slayers.

We've just come out of two decades of atrocious GMing. I think you need to give the prospect pool time to fill up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Collberg and De la Rose are also at the top of their age group in the Swedish ranks, playing against men. So "only" 10 prospects doing really well outside of the AHL this year.
I know those two are playing against men but I didn't think their stats would have impressed LaPoche69. And by his reply I was proven right. He is left cold by all the prospects I mentioned except for Gregoire.


Last edited by onice: 10-21-2013 at 10:54 PM.
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10-21-2013, 10:50 PM
  #127
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Just prooves that up front, there's a big gap there. We have NOTHING who is close to be ready.

And that's the effect of subpar drafts for forwards by my MVP from 2008 to 2011. Not entirely his fault....didn't have a lot of picks to use in 2008 and 2010 and Kristo was traded....At one point, we had to pay for these years....and that point has come.
Whoa there buddy. Wait a sec!!!!!!!

Within the last 8 months we moved three prospects into forward positions: Gally 1, Gally 2, Bournival. So now 4 forwards go down and you expect more prospects to go and fill in?

Tell me of another team that can promote 3 forward prospects in less than a year and still have other prospects ready to jump up?

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10-21-2013, 11:10 PM
  #128
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I'm interested to see what DD can do with bigger wingers now. I just want him to wake the hell up, so his value rises for a trade or anything.
I'm also keen on seeing how he does. I feel that he has done well for himself this year with bigger wingers, which is no surprise at all. I really hope that Bournival plays well and ends up forcing MT's hand to keep him in the top 9 for the long term. He brings a lot of energy on the ice and can put the puck in the net.

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10-21-2013, 11:58 PM
  #129
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Whoa there buddy. Wait a sec!!!!!!!

Within the last 8 months we moved three prospects into forward positions: Gally 1, Gally 2, Bournival. So now 4 forwards go down and you expect more prospects to go and fill in?

Tell me of another team that can promote 3 forward prospects in less than a year and still have other prospects ready to jump up?
Both Chuckie and Gally are at their 2nd year. Not sure why you say 8 months as if we would have played a complete year, they would have been here anyway. Gallagher being an exceptional based on where he was picked, and Galchenyuk being a top 3 pick, that ends up playing the year after he was picked just like most top 5 picks in the NHL and beyond. We are now in another year. Prospect wise that makes sense to jump in this year was only Bournival. We had 2 more players than the 12-player limit, but 2 spots that were filled with vets. So yes, we have a lot of injuries. As always....nothing new. Yet, what I said isn't less true. We can't expect the 2012 or 2013 picks to play a role. We start seeing 2011 with Beaulieu. Yet, even if you would like me to be patient with the forwards of that draft...we have none left. 2010: Gallagher makes it...still waiting for MacMillan but he's in the NCAA. 2009...nobody on that list is ready....unfortunately. We could have clearly expect Leblanc and Dumont to fill spots during injuries...but they can't. 2008: We had one guy who would have been more able than the others and we don't have him already. So, in the end, out of 4 drafts, that's 26 selections, we have 1 forward in the lineup. And no one else ready to come in to help after that. It has to show. I mean, real soon, you will have McCarron, De La Rose, Lehkonen, Crisp, Andrighetto, Grégoire, Collberg, Bozon, Vail, Hudon, Nystrom knocking. Yes, some maybes in there but it should look much better soon.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 10-22-2013 at 12:06 AM.
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10-22-2013, 12:02 AM
  #130
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Why was Peter Delmas called up??? Who's hurt in Hamilton?

http://www.echl.com/echl-transactions-oct-21-p187972

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10-22-2013, 12:08 AM
  #131
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Whoa there buddy. Wait a sec!!!!!!!

Within the last 8 months we moved three prospects into forward positions: Gally 1, Gally 2, Bournival. So now 4 forwards go down and you expect more prospects to go and fill in?

Tell me of another team that can promote 3 forward prospects in less than a year and still have other prospects ready to jump up?
... ummmm ... Toronto. They've been rotating players up and down like crazy. Just sayin'...

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10-22-2013, 12:10 AM
  #132
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... ummmm ... Toronto. They've been rotating players up and down like crazy. Most teams have lots of backups.
So, what you're saying is, most of their callups arent good enough to stick with the big club.

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10-22-2013, 12:17 AM
  #133
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... ummmm ... Toronto. They've been rotating players up and down like crazy. Just sayin'...
Really?

David Broll
Josh Leivo

Are the only forwards I see moving in from last year and this.

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10-22-2013, 12:22 AM
  #134
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Not sure why you say 8 months as if we would have played a complete year.... .
I say 8 months because they were promoted only at the beginning of last year - a shortened season.

But let's look at it from your POV.

We graduated 2 prospect forwards last year and 1 prospect forward this year.

How many teams have done better?

Or how many teams have done just as well and still have other prospects that can be promoted? Bet you, you can't name very many if any.

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10-22-2013, 12:26 AM
  #135
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Really?

David Broll
Josh Leivo

Are the only forwards I see moving in from last year and this.
Carter Ashton.

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10-22-2013, 12:46 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Whoa there buddy. Wait a sec!!!!!!!

Within the last 8 months we moved three prospects into forward positions: Gally 1, Gally 2, Bournival. So now 4 forwards go down and you expect more prospects to go and fill in?

Tell me of another team that can promote 3 forward prospects in less than a year and still have other prospects ready to jump up?
Canada U-20 Team

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10-22-2013, 10:45 AM
  #137
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Canada U-20 Team
LOL!

Great comeback!

LOL!

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10-22-2013, 10:50 AM
  #138
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Carter Ashton.
Funny, he doesn't show up on their roster. But all the same that makes 3 forwards. That equals what the Habs have done and the T.O. three (Ashton, Broll, Leivo) can't hold a candle to the Habs three ( Chuckie, Gallagher & Bournival).

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10-22-2013, 11:17 AM
  #139
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That's not what I said. I responded to your post where you assumed we had no good prospects because none of our prospects were dominating in their leagues. I posted 8 players that were doing excellent in their respective leagues.

Obviously they are not all going to continue this production into the NHL but what team right now has 8 prospects that will eventually dominate the NHL. The answer is none yet you expect the Habs to have a slew of prospects that will all turn out to be dragon slayers.

We've just come out of two decades of atrocious GMing. I think you need to give the prospect pool time to fill up.



I know those two are playing against men but I didn't think their stats would have impressed LaPoche69. And by his reply I was proven right. He is left cold by all the prospects I mentioned except for Gregoire.
You're right, I implied something you didn't said. Sorry about it.

That said, I'm not implying some prospects are not interesting or not doing well at their respective level. I'm saying that beside Gregoire, they're not "dominating" like any player who end up having an impact on a NHL team usually does, and therefore I state that there isn't much talent coming in. And even for Gregoire, I prefer to wait a bit since it's early into his season.

Heck, even Ryan White was dominating in his own way during his junior years, something none of Habs' prospect are doing. Of course some will develop well and probably will play at least some role in the NHL, but very few will, and even fewer will have an impact greater than one of a role player.

The way the actual prospects are doing, it's nothing more than the way the Duncan Millroy, Ben Maxwell, Kyle Chipchura, Michael Lambert, etc., were doing in their time. So my bet, and the odds are with me, is that the great majority of them will end up being not really more than these guys. And some who'll make it in the NHL are often not the ones we were excpecting. For example, I wouldn't be surprise to see Vail making it and Collberg never reaching the NHL.

Moreover, we allready saw those guys play in camp and in exhibition, and there was nothing to write home about. Players reaching the NHL with a "certain" impact always show something.

Just recently, people were considering Morgan Ellis as a legitimate NHL prospect, and he's not even playing in the AHL... Hard to reach the NHL.

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10-22-2013, 11:25 AM
  #140
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You're right, I implied something you didn't said. Sorry about it.

That said, I'm not implying some prospects are not interesting or not doing well at their respective level. I'm saying that beside Gregoire, they're not "dominating" like any player who end up having an impact on a NHL team usually does, and therefore I state that there isn't much talent coming in. And even for Gregoire, I prefer to wait a bit since it's early into his season.

Heck, even Ryan White was dominating in his own way during his junior years, something none of Habs' prospect are doing. Of course some will develop well and probably will play at least some role in the NHL, but very few will, and even fewer will have an impact greater than one of a role player.

The way the actual prospects are doing, it's nothing more than the way the Duncan Millroy, Ben Maxwell, Kyle Chipchura, Michael Lambert, etc., were doing in their time. So my bet, and the odds are with me, is that the great majority of them will end up being not really more than these guys. And some who'll make it in the NHL are often not the ones we were excpecting. For example, I wouldn't be surprise to see Vail making it and Collberg never reaching the NHL.

Moreover, we allready saw those guys play in camp and in exhibition, and there was nothing to write home about. Players reaching the NHL with a "certain" impact always show something.

Just recently, people were considering Morgan Ellis as a legitimate NHL prospect, and he's not even playing in the AHL... Hard to reach the NHL.
Part of Ellis not playing is the ridiculous notion of Lefebvre that he has to play 3 vets every game. So Schiestel, McIver and Chouinard play every game for whatever reason. I guess part of that is on Bergevin for signing so many vet D when he knew we were going to have at least five signed D prospects in Hamilton at all times.

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10-22-2013, 11:30 AM
  #141
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Part of Ellis not playing is the ridiculous notion of Lefebvre that he has to play 3 vets every game. So Schiestel, McIver and Chouinard play every game for whatever reason. I guess part of that is on Bergevin for signing so many vet D when he knew we were going to have at least five signed D prospects in Hamilton at all times.
Coaches are not dumb. If Lefebvre was convinced he had better chance of winning with Ellis, he would play him. Now maybe it's a mistake, but still, it means Ellis doesn't show enough. And you HAVE to show something in the AHL.

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10-22-2013, 11:37 AM
  #142
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Coaches are not dumb. If Lefebvre was convinced he had better chance of winning with Ellis, he would play him. Now maybe it's a mistake, but still, it means Ellis doesn't show enough. And you HAVE to show something in the AHL.
He hasn't played a single game, how is he going to show anything? How are the coaches not dumb either? The Bulldogs were far and away the worst team in the league last year and it's more than just the players they iced. They scored 25 less goals than the second worse team. Everything is pointing towards a Randy Cunneyworth Habs type deal going on in Hamilton. Even Gallagher scored at a worse pace in the AHL playing for Lefebvre than he did in Montreal. It's pretty clear coaching is terrible. Everyone who left Hamilton scored at a higher pace and everyone who was brought into Hamilton scored at a lower pace.

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10-22-2013, 05:39 PM
  #143
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The depth is fading quick. I don't trust that 4th line and I feel that mt has no choice but to shorten the bench.
That might not be a bad thing. About 20 mins each for the top two lines and 20 mins divided between the bottom two. And then you get specialists throughout getting time on PK, PP other strategic times. Seems like it could be okay. It's Edmonton. That's a good test. It's a weak team. Either the Habs feel sorry for themselves and make excuses, or the better remaining players step up, as the cliche goes.

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10-22-2013, 06:05 PM
  #144
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Why was Peter Delmas called up??? Who's hurt in Hamilton?

http://www.echl.com/echl-transactions-oct-21-p187972
Per another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booba View Post
Now that Orlando have their two regular goaltenders (John Curry and Christopher Gibson), Peter Delmas will have to find a new team

http://www.echl.com/echl-transactions-oct-21-p187972

He has been "technically" recalled by Montreal and he'll likely be reassigned somewhere else in the ECHL or CHL.
Dunno where he'll end up next

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10-22-2013, 06:06 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Whoa there buddy. Wait a sec!!!!!!!

Within the last 8 months we moved three prospects into forward positions: Gally 1, Gally 2, Bournival. So now 4 forwards go down and you expect more prospects to go and fill in?

Tell me of another team that can promote 3 forward prospects in less than a year and still have other prospects ready to jump up?
You guys are having an interesting discussion -- I don't mean to interrupt or take sides. But I would suggest that you can look at the idea of "jumping in" on a more of a spectrum. As in, a kid jumps in the pool, starts to wade, and eventually goes up and down doing the butterfly.

My point is that development or succession can be looked at in 3 year tranches (let's say) rather than just year over year. I'm thinking of how it took Eller a while to establish himself. You almost don't want to count his first year for much, but he's a big part of that process of renewal and development.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone. Just saying that the same thing looks a little different when you look at the evolution of the roster in multi-year tranches. Though I acknowledge that it can be arbitrary in deciding where to make the tranch, like cutting a piece of delicious cake.

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10-22-2013, 07:33 PM
  #146
Whitesnake
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I say 8 months because they were promoted only at the beginning of last year - a shortened season.

But let's look at it from your POV.

We graduated 2 prospect forwards last year and 1 prospect forward this year.

How many teams have done better?

Or how many teams have done just as well and still have other prospects that can be promoted? Bet you, you can't name very many if any.
You love to make me work....Before I do though....let's hope you are not going to reply that we have a different idea of what a "prospect" is or that they don't have the same key roles that our players have. 'Cause I won't like you if you do. Question is how many teams have graduated 3 prospects in 2 years so here we go...

DETROIT
Joakin Andersson (only 5 games in 11-12)
Tomas Tatar
Luke Glendening (24 year old...still considered a prospect. Ex-Wolverine so it count even more)

TORONTO
Joshua Leivo
David Broll
Carter Ashton

TBAY
Alex Killorn
Tyler Johnson
Ondrej Palat
Richard Panik

FLORIDA
Barkov
Huberdeau
Bjugstad

BUFFALO
Girgensons
Grigorenko
Larsson

CHICAGO
Saad
Pirri
Nordstrom (started the year, not with the Hawks anymore)

MINNY
Niederraiter (just his real 2nd season, 9 games in 11-12)
Granlund
Coyle
Zucker (though he's not active anymore...)

DALLAS
Chiasson
Eakin
Nichuskin

RANGERS
Miller (question of time before he's being recalled...)
Fast
Kristo (okay, okay.....that's just for me....but he should be recalled soon too...)

SAN JOSE
Hertl
Nieto
Hamilton

Then....(and please just note the research I made just for you...), we can say 3 'cause Bournival JUST got his job....but it still could ahve been 2 nto that long ago WITH Bournival as a possible callup. But then on top of everything I noted before, there are some prospects in the AHL that are just waiting for injuries to make the jump contrary to us. While everything isn't stats, look at the AHL page for scorers and you'll see quite a few kids in there.

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10-22-2013, 08:27 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
You love to make me work....Before I do though....let's hope you are not going to reply that we have a different idea of what a "prospect" is or that they don't have the same key roles that our players have. 'Cause I won't like you if you do. Question is how many teams have graduated 3 prospects in 2 years so here we go...

DETROIT
Joakin Andersson (only 5 games in 11-12)
Tomas Tatar
Luke Glendening (24 year old...still considered a prospect. Ex-Wolverine so it count even more)

TORONTO
Joshua Leivo
David Broll
Carter Ashton

TBAY
Alex Killorn
Tyler Johnson
Ondrej Palat
Richard Panik

FLORIDA
Barkov
Huberdeau
Bjugstad

BUFFALO
Girgensons
Grigorenko
Larsson

CHICAGO
Saad
Pirri
Nordstrom (started the year, not with the Hawks anymore)

MINNY
Niederraiter (just his real 2nd season, 9 games in 11-12)
Granlund
Coyle
Zucker (though he's not active anymore...)

DALLAS
Chiasson
Eakin
Nichuskin

RANGERS
Miller (question of time before he's being recalled...)
Fast
Kristo (okay, okay.....that's just for me....but he should be recalled soon too...)

SAN JOSE
Hertl
Nieto
Hamilton

Then....(and please just note the research I made just for you...), we can say 3 'cause Bournival JUST got his job....but it still could ahve been 2 nto that long ago WITH Bournival as a possible callup. But then on top of everything I noted before, there are some prospects in the AHL that are just waiting for injuries to make the jump contrary to us. While everything isn't stats, look at the AHL page for scorers and you'll see quite a few kids in there.
I would say it's a little early to be anointing some of those players listed as having "graduated"..especially those...ahem...Rangers (:-)) and Leafs. The better question might be - What teams have graduated three prospects that are playing on their team's top two lines? Tonight the Habs have three, two which are cemented as top six forwards now - that's impressive.

I don't think Neidereiter should be considered as a wild prospect who graduated either, and if he's included...Eller would come close to qualifying as well as a 2012-13 graduate.

As for Kristo being a graduate of the Rangers system. First of all..he ain't graduated..second of all..he's played a grand total of 8 games for the organization. Thomas right now is as much of a graduate for the Habs as Kristo for the Rangers. ;-)

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10-22-2013, 08:51 PM
  #148
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I would say it's a little early to be anointing some of those players listed as having "graduated"..especially those...ahem...Rangers (:-)) and Leafs. The better question might be - What teams have graduated three prospects that are playing on their team's top two lines? Tonight the Habs have three, two which are cemented as top six forwards now - that's impressive.

I don't think Neidereiter should be considered as a wild prospect who graduated either, and if he's included...Eller would come close to qualifying as well as a 2012-13 graduate.

As for Kristo being a graduate of the Rangers system. First of all..he ain't graduated..second of all..he's played a grand total of 8 games for the organization. Thomas right now is as much of a graduate for the Habs as Kristo for the Rangers. ;-)
Come on now....I just answered the question.....give me the credit for the research....As far as Kristo is concerned....I know you did get the fact that I just put it for me...it's not REALLY on the list...Can,t believe they didn't graduated Miller though...He'd be on my team.

I'm a big Timmins fan. As my avatar says, he is my MVP. The fact that he is the 2nd best guy to have given NHL'ers to his team is CLEARLY a testament that we had bad to average guys in the management. You don't constantly provide NHL'ers to not see them being players for us, or at least great pieces in trades for other teams. We had at one point to have become a contender. And we didn't. Yet, the best of them have some more quiet moments. And that 2008-2011 is his "quiet moment". And again, not entirely his fault, with so little picks in 2008 and 2010.

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10-22-2013, 10:31 PM
  #149
onice
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post

DETROIT
Joakin Andersson (only 5 games in 11-12)
Tomas Tatar
Luke Glendening (24 year old...still considered a prospect. Ex-Wolverine so it count even more)

TORONTO
Joshua Leivo
David Broll
Carter Ashton

TBAY
Alex Killorn
Tyler Johnson
Ondrej Palat
Richard Panik

FLORIDA
Barkov
Huberdeau
Bjugstad

BUFFALO
Girgensons
Grigorenko
Larsson

CHICAGO
Saad
Pirri
Nordstrom (started the year, not with the Hawks anymore)

MINNY
Niederraiter (just his real 2nd season, 9 games in 11-12)
Granlund
Coyle
Zucker (though he's not active anymore...)

DALLAS
Chiasson
Eakin
Nichuskin

RANGERS
Miller (question of time before he's being recalled...)
Fast
Kristo (okay, okay.....that's just for me....but he should be recalled soon too...)

SAN JOSE
Hertl
Nieto
Hamilton
Without arguing any of your research, I see only one team bringing up more prospects than the Habs: T Bay. And that's solely on numbers. So right there the Habs are tied for 2nd in the league.

Now let's look at your research. By your own admission Chicago hasn't brought up 3 but only two. MInny only two but if you want to include Nino than the Habs should include Eller. Rangers.... you really are stretching your credibility there.

So the Habs are tied for 2nd with 6 other teams.

Tied for 2nd tells me they are among the top when it comes to numbers.

Now do we want to discuss quality?

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10-22-2013, 10:36 PM
  #150
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Next........

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