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Official 2014 NHL Draft Discussion, Suck for Sam or Play Bad For Ekblad?

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Old
10-22-2013, 11:50 AM
  #176
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The bottom line is this - Doing the same thing over and over and hoping it's going to work, with the same bad results, clearly isn't a way to go about winning a championship. That is what the Rangers are doing every year. That is what you are advocating for.

We aren't close now. That's completely obvious to anybody with a brain. It's the same thing every year.

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10-22-2013, 12:26 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
The bottom line is this - Doing the same thing over and over and hoping it's going to work, with the same bad results, clearly isn't a way to go about winning a championship. That is what the Rangers are doing every year. That is what you are advocating for.

We aren't close now. That's completely obvious to anybody with a brain. It's the same thing every year.
OK, so what are the similarities of what the Rangers did over the last, say three, years? One year they signed a big UFA, one year they traded for a superstar forward and one year they hardly did anything. They didn't do the same thing over and over again and also just because something didn't work, it doesn't mean it never works. Every trade is different, every signing is different.

That over and over quote is pretty stupid, even though it's from Einstein. It's not even (or rather especially) true for physics.

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10-22-2013, 12:37 PM
  #178
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OK, so what are the similarities of what the Rangers did over the last, say three, years? One year they signed a big UFA, one year they traded for a superstar forward and one year they hardly did anything. They didn't do the same thing over and over again and also just because something didn't work, it doesn't mean it never works. Every trade is different, every signing is different.

That over and over quote is pretty stupid, even though it's from Einstein. It's not even (or rather especially) true for physics.
The approach is the same, and that's why it fails.

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10-22-2013, 12:56 PM
  #179
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The approach is the same, and that's why it fails.
That's entirely black or white. Apart from a full rebuild everything is the same for you? So how did the Bruins for example become contenders? Full rebuild? There are other ways, but whatever. You remain convinced that a full rebuild is the only way to go and I disagree. There's little point in continuing this endless debate.

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10-22-2013, 12:59 PM
  #180
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That's entirely black or white. Apart from a full rebuild everything is the same for you? So how did the Bruins for example become contenders? Full rebuild? There are other ways, but whatever. You remain convinced that a full rebuild is the only way to go and I disagree. There's little point in continuing this endless debate.
If you want to give up and admit defeat to me that's fine by me. The Bruins were bad before they were good. And they don't win the cup if they don't draft Phil Kessel.

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10-22-2013, 01:00 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
If you want to give up and admit defeat to me that's fine by me. The Bruins were bad before they were good. And they don't win the cup if they don't draft Phil Kessel.
The Bruins never went through a real rebuild.

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10-22-2013, 01:02 PM
  #182
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This team has no young elite forwards and until it does we will be in the perpetual area of mediocre/slightly good. As much as people hate to say it, this team needs a year or two of tanking.

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10-22-2013, 01:02 PM
  #183
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The Bruins never went through a real rebuild.
That's fine, but being bad and drafting Phil Kessel allowed them to make the moves that won them the cup. We need a full rebuild. I don't really care about the Bruins. This is what the Rangers need. If I become a Bruins fan, then I'll start worry about them. This is what is right for the Rangers. The time couldn't be better, it's a perfect storm.

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10-22-2013, 01:18 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
If you want to give up and admit defeat to me that's fine by me. The Bruins were bad before they were good. And they don't win the cup if they don't draft Phil Kessel.
Admit defeat? How old are you? This is a discussion, you can't convince me, I can't convince you.

And the Bruins never fully rebuild, it was one season and much more a retool like I suggest. And was Seguin really elemental to their cup?

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10-22-2013, 01:22 PM
  #185
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Admit defeat? How old are you? This is a discussion, you can't convince me, I can't convince you.

And the Bruins never fully rebuild, it was one season and much more a retool like I suggest. And was Seguin really elemental to their cup?
Thought you were done?

Was Seguin elemental to their cup? Go back and watch the Tampa series. The answer is yes.
Did Nathan Horton, who they were able to trade for after Kessel, play a big part? The answer is yes.

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10-22-2013, 01:33 PM
  #186
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The examples are out there for teams who took a step back for a season or 2 and then took big leaps forward. Philly did it the year they drafted JVR. The Bruins did it shortly after selecting Kessel. The Devils picked Larsson and then went to the Finals the year after. Are these players instrumental right away? Most likely not. The point is, just because you "tank" one season doesn't mean it has to be a long process.

It's hard to tell this season but Colorado and Nashville look like good teams and both picked highly last year.

Montreal sucked, picked Galchenyuk, made the playoffs. It goes on and on.

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10-22-2013, 02:25 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
The examples are out there for teams who took a step back for a season or 2 and then took big leaps forward. Philly did it the year they drafted JVR. The Bruins did it shortly after selecting Kessel. The Devils picked Larsson and then went to the Finals the year after. Are these players instrumental right away? Most likely not. The point is, just because you "tank" one season doesn't mean it has to be a long process.

It's hard to tell this season but Colorado and Nashville look like good teams and both picked highly last year.

Montreal sucked, picked Galchenyuk, made the playoffs. It goes on and on.
I agree. This is a good team when healthy. Just need that top 6 winger to put them over the top, maybe another PMD. This isn't a team that really needs to a big rebuild, they aren't bad enough for one. We've got plenty of pieces, it's just the pieces we're missing are almost impossible to come by. If we draft Sam Reinhart or Aaron Ekblad this season, it would be awesome, it fills a need and we go into next season even stronger after one tough one.

OTOH, with all the expiring contracts, I really wonder how far away this team might be from needing a rebuild.

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10-22-2013, 02:26 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I agree. This is a good team when healthy. Just need that top 6 winger to put them over the top, maybe another PMD. This isn't a team that really needs to a big rebuild, they aren't bad enough for one. We've got plenty of pieces, it's just the pieces we're missing are almost impossible to come by. If we draft Sam Reinhart or Aaron Ekblad this season, it would be awesome, it fills a need and we go into next season even stronger after one tough one.

OTOH, with all the expiring contracts, I really wonder how far away this team might be from needing a rebuild.
IMO, pretty far from an all-out rebuild. They have some promising young players who will be pushing for NHL duty soon and some good "veterans" who are still young like Stepan, Staal, McDonagh, Brassard, Nash.

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10-22-2013, 02:28 PM
  #189
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I love how on HFNYR, the Rangers are always a top 6 forward and a PMD away.

Truth is, our roster just isn't that talented. We are far away from being only 1-2 pieces away.

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10-22-2013, 02:29 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
I love how on HFNYR, the Rangers are always a top 6 forward and a PMD away.

Truth is, our roster just isn't that talented. We are far away from being only 1-2 pieces away.
Having those 1-2 pieces pushes everyone else else down a peg which would be fine.

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10-22-2013, 02:36 PM
  #191
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Having those 1-2 pieces pushes everyone else else down a peg which would be fine.
Ok, so maybe we'd be able to push Hagelin or Callahan down to the third line. Still missing that elite talent on this team.

(And yes, you need elite skaters, something we don't have)

Look at the last SC winners and their #1D
Keith
Doughty
Chara
Letang
Lidstrom
Pronger

Where's our elite defenseman?

Lets look at best forwards:

Kane/Toews X 2
Kopitar
Krejci/ Bergeron
Crosby
Datsyuk
Teemu

Where's our elite forward/center?

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10-22-2013, 02:38 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Ok, so maybe we'd be able to push Hagelin or Callahan down to the third line. Still missing that elite talent on this team.

(And yes, you need elite skaters, something we don't have)

Look at the last SC winners and their #1D
Keith
Doughty
Chara
Letang
Lidstrom
Pronger

Where's our elite defenseman?

Lets look at best forwards:

Kane/Toews X 2
Kopitar
Krejci/ Bergeron
Crosby
Datsyuk
Teemu

Where's our elite forward/center?
That would be the players pushing those guys down.

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10-22-2013, 02:39 PM
  #193
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That would be the players pushing those guys down.
When is an elite skater falling into our hands without us having to give up a quality roster player?

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10-22-2013, 02:42 PM
  #194
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When is an elite skater falling into our hands without us having to give up a quality roster player?
Moore and McDonagh are elite level skaters. Draft one if you are bad one year or look for when one may be available. Buy low. Kulikov has had some problems in Florida. Buff may be available in WPG.

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10-22-2013, 02:58 PM
  #195
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Moore and McDonagh are elite level skaters. Draft one if you are bad one year or look for when one may be available. Buy low. Kulikov has had some problems in Florida. Buff may be available in WPG.
I meant "skaters" in terms of defensemen and forwards, not skating ability. Sorry if that was unclear.

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10-22-2013, 03:11 PM
  #196
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I meant "skaters" in terms of defensemen and forwards, not skating ability. Sorry if that was unclear.
Gotcha, well the hope would be draft one, and possibly sign one. Maybe they buy-out Richards, draft a player like Monahan from last year in the top-5 and sign Vanek to play with Stepan and Nash. That looks like a pretty good turn-around in skill.

Maybe a player like Seguin becomes available again like he was this past off-season and the Rangers are able to pry him away from some other team.

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10-22-2013, 03:18 PM
  #197
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Gotcha, well the hope would be draft one, and possibly sign one. Maybe they buy-out Richards, draft a player like Monahan from last year in the top-5 and sign Vanek to play with Stepan and Nash. That looks like a pretty good turn-around in skill.

Maybe a player like Seguin becomes available again like he was this past off-season and the Rangers are able to pry him away from some other team.
The point is, if we keep trading for quick fixes, it'll be hard pressed to draft an elite player.

And Dallas still gave up Eriksson for Seguin, so it wasn't a robbery by any means. We need to develop our own talent. And while I love the kids we have, none of them exactly project to be "elite" by any means.

#ConnorMcDavid2015

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10-22-2013, 03:21 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
The point is, if we keep trading for quick fixes, it'll be hard pressed to draft an elite player.

And Dallas still gave up Eriksson for Seguin, so it wasn't a robbery by any means. We need to develop our own talent. And while I love the kids we have, none of them exactly project to be "elite" by any means.

#ConnorMcDavid2015
There aren't many, if any, teams that have won the Cup by solely drafting all of their players.

A team like NY or Boston or Chicago has the resources to turn a team around quickly by utilizing their scouting departments to draft the right players and sign the right players in UFA. That is what I mean.

Draft a good young player but also sign the right UFA's or make the right trades for players who will fit.

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10-22-2013, 03:29 PM
  #199
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It's not impossible to rebuild a team rather quickly given that we have several pieces in place already. Some decent 4th line pieces, a scoring center, very good defenders, a star winger, and some kids that should be making the jump next year. Our biggest issue right now is that the kids aren't quite ready. In theory, a full season with the Pack should mean that some of the kids can step into roles next fall, and with the right trades, you could basically call this season a "transition year" and be competitive again next year.

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10-22-2013, 03:30 PM
  #200
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It's not impossible to rebuild a team rather quickly given that we have several pieces in place already. Some decent 4th line pieces, a scoring center, very good defenders, a star winger, and some kids that should be making the jump next year. Our biggest issue right now is that the kids aren't quite ready. In theory, a full season with the Pack should mean that some of the kids can step into roles next fall, and with the right trades, you could basically call this season a "transition year" and be competitive again next year.
That's what I was trying to say, but was unable to do so.

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