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Old
10-22-2013, 03:21 PM
  #26
BlessThisMess513
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Wait wasn't that William Wallace?



Haha you beat me to it. If I was adept at photoshop I'd put Messier's face on Wallace with blue war paint.

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10-22-2013, 03:22 PM
  #27
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When Torts came in, I had strong feelings on the guy. I heard he was a hard nosed, but players praised him and his style. I said this guy can help the Rangers win the Cup. And I believed he still could have been especially if Sather didnt mess with the chemistry and depth.

Anyway.

When AV came in. I heard that he does a lot of stat stuff and very hands on coach. I loved many things he brought to the table but I also immediately feared the new offensive style. And I am getting scared more and more.

This team has no character. I wouldnt oppose the bringing in of Messier as GM or coach if things dont change within 15 more games. I dont mean just win and losses. I also mean consistency. I hope things chance and I am wrong but honestly I dont see it and I am fed up with the lack of toughness from this team.



I know Messier has little experience as coaching but hey, we just got a really experienced coach who is doing crap.



I was trying to bring up the idea of Wayne Gretzky for GM. Its out there, i Know... but if AV goes. Sather should too. Gretzky has some front office experience. I would highly consider him

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10-22-2013, 03:25 PM
  #28
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Hell yes there are still Messier for coach fans.

Why not? Crazier things have happened.

We just hired a very experienced and successful coach. we hired many staff members for him too. Hes failing.

Idc about having his record. i care about our GAA, our lack of toughness and much more.

Its coaching. Some guys succeed, others fail.
Idk if Messier would bring success, but whats the difference? We look horrible out there, We have 1 good game and 5 of the worst we ever played. Dont be fooled that its the players. Same players under Torts and same situation of long road trip was no excuses for them. Dont be fooled that the system is new... these are hockey players and guys like Stepan cant even cover the front of the net like he use to.

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10-22-2013, 03:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by NYRKindms View Post
You know lost in all the Mess hate is that our illustrious GM went to HIM to offer him the job

So think on that for a moment. Our GM approached a guy with NO coaching experience and asked him to take the job. If we believe this interview Mess told Slats to do his due diligence and look at everyone[/B]

So it is just another instance where Slats makes knee jerk decisions and moves. And Mark Messier told him to take a step back and do his job.
I might be very ignorant on this, but I HIGHLY doubt this is how it went down even if the article states such.

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10-22-2013, 03:32 PM
  #30
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Sather doesnt go unless Av goes IMO. As an owner, I see a team that made many playoffs under him and stayed competitive and made me money in the process.

But if AV goes, no more wires to keep Sather up. Too many chances.

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10-22-2013, 03:38 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Wait wasn't that William Wallace?



Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessThisMess513 View Post
Haha you beat me to it. If I was adept at photoshop I'd put Messier's face on Wallace with blue war paint.
Some posters here, primarily the one's who were a part of our SC run, think Messier pisses excellence. As much respect as I have for the guy, some of the things people here say make me wonder if they're mistaken Messier for someone like W.W. Blue paint replaced with tears, naturally.

Cause, you know, Messier would snap his fingers and our injury-depleted line-up would be instantly healed. Messier would snap his fingers and Sather would have been delegated to emptying the Garden's trash. Messier would snap his fingers and our team would win games 14-1.

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10-22-2013, 03:39 PM
  #32
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I bet it went like this...

Sather: Mark! Head coach is vacant, are you interested
Mess: Oh I am not sure ))))))... let me talk to my family
Sather: No problem. No problem


An hour later
Messier: Sather? Count me in...
Sather: Great to hear, understand that you are just applying and will have to go through the sam...
Messier- YES. I cant wait. But ya know what, treat me like everyone else. I want to go through the same process...
Sather: ...
Messier: Ill be looking forward to the interview
Sather: ... Okay no problem Mess


NEWS: Alain Vigneault fired from Vancouver


Sather talks to his staff....
No experience, Mark Messier? Or Successful resume AV?
Yes AV. Everyone except the 1 die hard Ranger fan raises his hands to vote AV

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10-22-2013, 03:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Jim Ramsay View Post
I might be very ignorant on this, but I HIGHLY doubt this is how it went down even if the article states such.
It was reported in earlier articles that Sather approached Mess about the job. Now as to what was said only they know. But either Sather offered him the job and rescinded (and pissed Mess off) or he interviewed him seriously for the position. Again a coach with no experience after a knee jerk firing of their head coach with the most success of any coach under Sather.

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10-22-2013, 03:44 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
Hell yes there are still Messier for coach fans.

Why not? Crazier things have happened.

We just hired a very experienced and successful coach. we hired many staff members for him too. Hes failing.

Idc about having his record. i care about our GAA, our lack of toughness and much more.

Its coaching. Some guys succeed, others fail.
Idk if Messier would bring success, but whats the difference? We look horrible out there, We have 1 good game and 5 of the worst we ever played. Dont be fooled that its the players. Same players under Torts and same situation of long road trip was no excuses for them. Dont be fooled that the system is new... these are hockey players and guys like Stepan cant even cover the front of the net like he use to.
You realize that his star goalie is playing like poo, his defense is learning a completely new system and they haven't acclimated fully to it as of yet... along with his supposed #1 center who missed ALL of training camp and pre-season.

OH! Not to mention that a full half of his top 6 forwards are injured.

"Failing" may not be acurate at this point... it's certainly not fair. If this persists through Thanksgiving then you may have a point.

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Old
10-22-2013, 03:48 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
You realize that his star goalie is playing like poo, his defense is learning a completely new system and they haven't acclimated fully to it as of yet... along with his supposed #1 center who missed ALL of training camp and pre-season.

OH! Not to mention that a full half of his top 6 forwards are injured.

"Failing" may not be acurate at this point... it's certainly not fair. If this persists through Thanksgiving then you may have a point.
You realize these are simply weak to very weak excuses when it comes to a core issue of the team not playing hard for 2 consecutive games, right?

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10-22-2013, 03:51 PM
  #36
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I really don't know what would be worse.

Gretzky as GM or Messier as HC

I trust completely that both would be absolute failures, but how much worse would one be over the other.

great players RARELY make good front office guys.

Jacques Lemaire was the last great player that made for a great HC and even HE was helped by having arguably the best goalie ever and one of the best defenceman ever.

Still way to early in Yzerman's career and Sakic's career to label them good front office guys.

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10-22-2013, 03:53 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Some posters here, primarily the one's who were a part of our SC run, think Messier pisses excellence. As much respect as I have for the guy, some of the things people here say make me wonder if they're mistaken Messier for someone like W.W. Blue paint replaced with tears, naturally.

Cause, you know, Messier would snap his fingers and our injury-depleted line-up would be instantly healed. Messier would snap his fingers and Sather would have been delegated to emptying the Garden's trash. Messier would snap his fingers and our team would win games 14-1.
Woah Woah Woah.
Lets make things clear...

We understand the coaching staff is new, the system is new and the team has some changes. We understand the team's been away from home, on long road trips across the country and we have been riddled with injuries and other issues.

But what we also understand is that what were watching every game when the Rangers take the ice, is not the Rangers team we want to see.

We drop our jaws at a creative new offense, but we cry for every dumb back door easy and high quality goal we allow.


AV is a solid coach and deserves more time. But this is not good hockey.


Do you recall 2011-2012 season?
We started in Europe and we started with quite a few away games.
We had injuries to Marc Staal, Michael Sauer (defense is the most important position in depth and we lost 2/4 top defenders. Callahan was nursing injuries. Gaborik was too.

All the same excuses... and what did we show for it!?
A trip to the Eastern Conference Championship.

So right now, we all get the complications of the Rangers season currently. But no excuses when players are thinking more about what they will do when the puck comes to them, before the puck is even cleared. Or more focus on attacking then our own crease. Too many easy goals we let up. HECK too many goals we let up period. and its not henrik Lundqvist. I do blame him and the players somewhat, but these are the same players who played great for Torts and other systems. What happens now? No defensive responsibility is being asked of them..

why was Torts fired? Sather didnt get along with his style. Upper mgmt thought we were boring. Dolan didnt like Torts comments toward him after the Winter Classic and his bad publicity. He lost to the Bruins in the 2nd round and he was canned with the cherry on top of Brad Richards saying that Torts style is too demanding on us...

Whats too demanding on us is hoping our guys can sprint back and forth between rushes and forechecks for 82 games in a year and playoff hopefulls. All in the while, we cant clear the zone and we give away the puck too much.

Maybe AV can turn it around... but if it continues like this for the next 10 games. I want change. We dont even have any personality anymore.




Messier may not be the diety, young fans remember him as as a player, but hes right.
Hes got many years of experience in the game at a high level and winning 5 cups.
Hes done some wrong, but his presence could change players desires just like it did when he played.
Messier coached Candian prospects. So hes not a virgin.

All im sayin is i give it 10 games and im already on my last straw with the style we play.

We give up another back door goal next game and I will flip out

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10-22-2013, 03:58 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
You realize that his star goalie is playing like poo, his defense is learning a completely new system and they haven't acclimated fully to it as of yet... along with his supposed #1 center who missed ALL of training camp and pre-season.

OH! Not to mention that a full half of his top 6 forwards are injured.

"Failing" may not be acurate at this point... it's certainly not fair. If this persists through Thanksgiving then you may have a point.
Lundqvist may be modest and a competitor but those are all bad excuses.

If I was an opponents coach. And I saw the amount of quality scoring chances my team got against Lundqvist and the Rangers in 92% of the games this season (including pre-season) then I would believe my team has a chance to score a lot of goals and win every match up against them.


Every game I watched so far is a game where Hank is faced with at least three back door easy goals. That is nearly a 100% quality scoring chance for a team

Every game I watched so far, we have allowed a few bad rebounds. Watch last nights Avs vs Pens game. Where Crosby had a chance on the PP to score a open net goal after a rebound... what happened. Avs rookie D-man played man to man on him and lifted his stick legally and effectively. Thats how you play defense. Radim Vrbata, I love the guy but that was the easiest hattrick we ever gave somebody.


Stepan cant cover the slot. As if he forgot somehow. Idc what system your in. Turn around and see a wide open guy, like Getzlaf in the slot and put a body on him.

Staal. Seems like hes always waiting for a break out, always waiting to attack. As if he forgot that we dont always have the puck and the first importance is to keep possession and get open. Instead hes causing issues with his positioning. Idc how many goals hes created or scored or had a shot at...


All these excuses results in no focus on defense. Whats going on Ulf Sammulsson? What going on AV?

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10-22-2013, 04:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I really don't know what would be worse.

Gretzky as GM or Messier as HC

I trust completely that both would be absolute failures, but how much worse would one be over the other.

great players RARELY make good front office guys.

Jacques Lemaire was the last great player that made for a great HC and even HE was helped by having arguably the best goalie ever and one of the best defenceman ever.

Still way to early in Yzerman's career and Sakic's career to label them good front office guys.
WHO CARES!!!!!!! Listen I am not as hatred toward Sather as many of you are but how many coaches can you go through. Cant be worse than having Yzerman or Sakic. I mean these guys so far good showings. Even outside of NHL.

Gretzky has 2002 Oly experience. Why not consider him as GM?

Why not consider Messier as coach.

Im not saying give up on what we have now. But look, anything is better than this very moment for rangers

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10-22-2013, 04:06 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Sather would have been delegated to emptying the Garden's trash.
I would like to see this for ***** and giggles.

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10-22-2013, 04:10 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NYRKindms View Post
It was reported in earlier articles that Sather approached Mess about the job. Now as to what was said only they know. But either Sather offered him the job and rescinded (and pissed Mess off) or he interviewed him seriously for the position. Again a coach with no experience after a knee jerk firing of their head coach with the most success of any coach under Sather.
I don't think there is any thing wrong with Sather interviewing Messier at all.( In fact, maybe he owed Messier at least a conversation) but as much as Sather gets bashed around here there is NO WAY he was ever going to hire a coach with no professional experience...... I think it's more likely that perhaps after that interview Mess had his hopes up a little too high and when they went with AV it irritated him

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10-22-2013, 04:11 PM
  #42
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I would like to see this for ***** and giggles.
He'd still be looking for people to kiss his ring.

His 5 rings, from over a generation ago.

Banff looks beautiful. He should enjoy his final years there. Just go away.

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10-22-2013, 04:13 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jim Ramsay View Post
I don't think there is any thing wrong with Sather interviewing Messier at all.( In fact, maybe he owed Messier at least a conversation) but as much as Sather gets bashed around here there is NO WAY he was ever going to hire a coach with no professional experience...... I think it's more likely that perhaps after that interview Mess had his hopes up a little too high and when they went with AV it irritated him
How do you feel about Vigneault and Messier being the only 2 candidates they legitimately interviewed? You consider that due diligence?

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10-22-2013, 04:18 PM
  #44
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What a crock. The team isn't filled with a bunch of tough guys to begin with. What's Coach Messier gonna do? Jump on the ice and punch someone in the face himself? Give it a rest
He might. It sure wouldn't surprise me if he did.

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10-22-2013, 04:21 PM
  #45
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[QUOTE=Bleed Ranger Blue;73050481]How do you feel about Vigneault and Messier being the only 2 candidates they legitimately interviewed? You consider that due diligence?[/QUOTE]


Feel free to point me to where I said any thing about Sather fulfilling his due diligence .... okay then moving on

I'm making a point that I THINK Messier is probably felt like he was going to be handed the job and when he wasn't, he felt slighted

I have nothing to base this on..

Messier/AV/Scotty Bowman/Herb Brooks wouldn't be able to make this team better than what they are..... I've said it since the summer this lineup is not offensively talented enough, and the bottom lines are not gritty/tough enough to make this team any thing special.

I watched the Penguins/Avalanche game last night and it was amazing to see the absolute speed those teams play with back and forth the ice... Rangers lineup is way too slow in the top 3 lines

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10-22-2013, 04:27 PM
  #46
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And I have no hard feelings against Mess.

He went for a job, didn't get it, and took another job offer instead of sticking around. I did the same thing a few months ago, and I'm sure most of us have at some point.
This apparently makes him a deplorable human. That he even thought to TRY to get in good with an organization he connections to..and then to MOVE ON when he wasn't given the job? Awful, truly awful. Such an entitled attitude to say "Alright thanks bye" and take another job.

Roy has been trucking along in CO and I don't think there would be too many people out there that would say CO has a more skilled roster up and down than the Rangers. I don't even recognize half of their defense. inb4 "omg small sample size~!" and "Roy isn't the norm~!" CO has more fight in them than the Rangers have expressed since 2 seasons ago. But I bet the Rangers are glad they can take it easy under a coach that isn't going to ride them too hard.

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10-22-2013, 04:28 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
You realize that his star goalie is playing like poo, his defense is learning a completely new system and they haven't acclimated fully to it as of yet... along with his supposed #1 center who missed ALL of training camp and pre-season.

OH! Not to mention that a full half of his top 6 forwards are injured.

"Failing" may not be acurate at this point... it's certainly not fair. If this persists through Thanksgiving then you may have a point.
By Thanksgiving we are 25 games into the season, 27 games by the end of November.

IMO that's way too much time. he get's to game 20 to turn it around or he is fired.

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10-22-2013, 04:32 PM
  #48
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Sather doesnt go unless Av goes IMO. As an owner, I see a team that made many playoffs under him and stayed competitive and made me money in the process.

But if AV goes, no more wires to keep Sather up. Too many chances.
If that's the case than prepare yourself for Messier to get the job hired by Dolan.

I don't think Messier is the guy you want hired anyway after 2 coaches being fired in less than 6 months. I would rather see Ulf Samuelsson get bumped up to interm head coach, at least he has a coaching resume.

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10-22-2013, 04:45 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You realize these are simply weak to very weak excuses when it comes to a core issue of the team not playing hard for 2 consecutive games, right?
Absolutely.

It's also NOT necessarily the coach's fault.

That's what I was discussing. His "failure"

Is he a part? Absolutely. But there's a lot going on here and some of them are out of his control.

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10-22-2013, 04:45 PM
  #50
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This apparently makes him a deplorable human. That he even thought to TRY to get in good with an organization he connections to..and then to MOVE ON when he wasn't given the job? Awful, truly awful. Such an entitled attitude to say "Alright thanks bye" and take another job.

Roy has been trucking along in CO and I don't think there would be too many people out there that would say CO has a more skilled roster up and down than the Rangers. I don't even recognize half of their defense. inb4 "omg small sample size~!" and "Roy isn't the norm~!" CO has more fight in them than the Rangers have expressed since 2 seasons ago. But I bet the Rangers are glad they can take it easy under a coach that isn't going to ride them too hard.

Roy coached for 8 years before getting his job with Colorado, big difference in his hire and the potential of Messier as coach..... and I would rate Colorado's lines better than the rangers, but definite edge on defense and goal to the rangers.

(Duchene, Stastny, Landeskog, Mackinnon, O'reilly) and throw in a good Paranteau and still capable Tanguay...I take those players over the rangers forwards

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