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Messier has no hard feelings towards NYR

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Old
10-22-2013, 04:48 PM
  #51
Riche16
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Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
By Thanksgiving we are 25 games into the season, 27 games by the end of November.

IMO that's way too much time. he get's to game 20 to turn it around or he is fired.
That may very well be your opinion but I'd bet he'll be given more of a leash than that (and that's merely my opinion)

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10-22-2013, 04:54 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
That may very well be your opinion but I'd bet he'll be given more of a leash than that (and that's merely my opinion)
What type of questionable record would the Rangers have to have to allow Av to keep his job or loss it?

Keep in mind it's much more than the record. It's the tempo of play & the general mood of the team that should be taken into account as well.

If we are say 6-10-4 would you let AV keep his job? Would you give him those 5-7 extra games?

At what point do you say this isn't working & most likely won't work moving forward & try to salavge the season?

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10-22-2013, 05:28 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
Woah Woah Woah.




Messier may not be the diety, young fans remember him as as a player, but hes right.
Hes got many years of experience in the game at a high level and winning 5 cups.
Hes done some wrong, but his presence could change players desires just like it did when he played.
Messier coached Candian prospects. So hes not a virgin.

All im sayin is i give it 10 games and im already on my last straw with the style we play.

We give up another back door goal next game and I will flip out

His presence didn't change anything when he returned

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10-22-2013, 06:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jim Ramsay View Post
Roy coached for 8 years before getting his job with Colorado, big difference in his hire and the potential of Messier as coach..... and I would rate Colorado's lines better than the rangers, but definite edge on defense and goal to the rangers.

(Duchene, Stastny, Landeskog, Mackinnon, O'reilly) and throw in a good Paranteau and still capable Tanguay...I take those players over the rangers forwards
Even if Messier coached for 8 years anywhere, people would complain that it wasn't in the NHL and we need an established NHL coach to do anything. Haven't Duchene and Statsy been underwhelming? All I remember hearing, maybe 2 years back about both, was how neither were performing up to where everyone hoped they would. Granted I don't follow CO that closely.

Plus Messier has tons of coaching experience, coaching Team Canada in the 2010 Deutschland Cup and Spengler Cup.

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10-22-2013, 06:57 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
Even if Messier coached for 8 years anywhere, people would complain that it wasn't in the NHL and we need an established NHL coach to do anything. Haven't Duchene and Statsy been underwhelming? All I remember hearing, maybe 2 years back about both, was how neither were performing up to where everyone hoped they would. Granted I don't follow CO that closely.

Plus Messier has tons of coaching experience, coaching Team Canada in the 2010 Deutschland Cup and Spengler Cup.
100% untrue. This organization would be well-served by getting hungry, yet qualified, blood into the mix.

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10-22-2013, 07:01 PM
  #56
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Duchene has 9 points which would be first on the team if he were a ranger and Stastny has 5 which would be tied for second on the team if he were a ranger.... I'd say they are pretty good just like the rest of their young forwards.

People probably would still complain about Messier having no NHL experience coaching even if he did coach for 8 years in juniors or something.... but the point still remains he doesn't have even 1 year of coaching so the discussion isn't even there yet to debate...He shouldn't have been handed the job based on lack of experience, at least in my opinion...

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10-22-2013, 07:02 PM
  #57
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This actually took longer than I thought in to the team playing poorly to see a Messier thread.

This debate should rage all season now.

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10-22-2013, 08:10 PM
  #58
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At least we now have a new "what if?" to add to the future what if threads. No more "What if this team didn't trade Zubov?"

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10-22-2013, 11:23 PM
  #59
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Anyone thinks Mark ****ing Messier wouldn't do a better job than ANYONE available is either a tween or ignorant.

He's been player coaching hall of famers and leading them to the promise land since he started playing.

WTF really makes anyone think he'd fail?? Really, what!!! I dare anyone to try and sound intelligent with a response...

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10-22-2013, 11:41 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Anyone thinks Mark ****ing Messier wouldn't do a better job than ANYONE available is either a tween or ignorant.

He's been player coaching hall of famers and leading them to the promise land since he started playing.

WTF really makes anyone think he'd fail?? Really, what!!! I dare anyone to try and sound intelligent with a response...
Gretzky was a great player and leader and also lead guys to the promise land too, how did his coaching career work out? Not saying he'd fail, but also not saying he'd succeed, but what legitimate evidence is there to prove mess would have been able to come in here with a new system and have this team grasp it faster and player better than they have with AV's system?

I also love the logic that coaching a second hand Olympic team in the deutchland cup translated to being able to coach and nhl team, just like how Gretzky being an executive director for team canada made him a qualified to be an nhl gm

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10-23-2013, 05:57 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
Even if Messier coached for 8 years anywhere, people would complain that it wasn't in the NHL and we need an established NHL coach to do anything. Haven't Duchene and Statsy been underwhelming? All I remember hearing, maybe 2 years back about both, was how neither were performing up to where everyone hoped they would. Granted I don't follow CO that closely.

Plus Messier has tons of coaching experience, coaching Team Canada in the 2010 Deutschland Cup and Spengler Cup.
Go back and look at the Hiring thread a lot of posters were pushing for Dallas Eakins.

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10-23-2013, 06:02 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Anyone thinks Mark ****ing Messier wouldn't do a better job than ANYONE available is either a tween or ignorant.

He's been player coaching hall of famers and leading them to the promise land since he started playing.

WTF really makes anyone think he'd fail?? Really, what!!! I dare anyone to try and sound intelligent with a response...
So if he has been player/coaching since he started playing then we can include his "coaching" record from 00-01 to 03-04?

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10-23-2013, 08:05 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
What type of questionable record would the Rangers have to have to allow Av to keep his job or loss it?

Keep in mind it's much more than the record. It's the tempo of play & the general mood of the team that should be taken into account as well.

If we are say 6-10-4 would you let AV keep his job? Would you give him those 5-7 extra games?

At what point do you say this isn't working & most likely won't work moving forward & try to salavge the season?
Honestly, I think Glen will AT LEAST give him until the roster is a bit more healthy. Nash is a big question mark, but you know when Hagelin is back... you know when Cally is back.

Look, I'm not saying this team isn't ******. It is. I'm not saying they're putting effort in, we have EVERY right to question that at this point.

What I'm saying is he's going to be given a fair chance, with a roster that inlcudes 5 of his top-6... not 50% which is what he's had to this point.

It's a long season, and if we play as bad as this until Thanksgiving... trend upwards until x-mas and then get HOT after the Olympics... we'd be in the play-offs.

The reason why patience is a virtue is because it isn't easy, and not everyone can have it... especially at times like this.

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10-23-2013, 08:30 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
WHO CARES!!!!!!! Listen I am not as hatred toward Sather as many of you are but how many coaches can you go through. Cant be worse than having Yzerman or Sakic. I mean these guys so far good showings. Even outside of NHL.

Gretzky has 2002 Oly experience. Why not consider him as GM?

Why not consider Messier as coach.

Im not saying give up on what we have now. But look, anything is better than this very moment for rangers
I'll make this one statement and leave it at that.

If either guy was nearly as good as you think they COULD be, then they would already have jobs doing exactly what you want them to do here.

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10-23-2013, 08:49 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Anyone thinks Mark ****ing Messier wouldn't do a better job than ANYONE available is either a tween or ignorant.

He's been player coaching hall of famers and leading them to the promise land since he started playing.

WTF really makes anyone think he'd fail?? Really, what!!! I dare anyone to try and sound intelligent with a response...
Player coaching? That's rich.

He was a great player. Great players do not think the game. Things come naturally to great players which is why they rarely make for good HC's.

They know where to be and what to do in most any situation. That knowledge is innate and very difficult to explain and or instruct others to comprehend.

These guys are in position to do things on the ice that others are not. They anticipate things happening when others do not. Which is what helps make them great.

Some of the best coaches EVER were marginal talented guys that were forced to think the game and from their vantage point on the bench watch the game unfold before theie eyes.

Torts is a good example of this. Marginal player, solid HC.

Al Arbour - Marginal player, great HC

Soctty Bowman - never made the NHL as a player. Great HC

AV same thing, decent HC, marginal talent.

It's very rare that a great player steps behind the bench and is even good, let alone great.

Messier, as great a player as he was, was not a player coach. He was a great player. Nothing more, nothing less.

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10-24-2013, 04:59 PM
  #66
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10-24-2013, 05:21 PM
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I don't see how anybody could have any bad feeling towards Mess.
He did nothing wrong, he just is ambitious to be in the game.

Not mentioning everything he did as a Ranger, his contribution to the Armory Ice Rink project is remarkable and will perhaps completely change the hockey culture of this city for generations to come.
What a good service his doing with this project for the game of hockey in New York.

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10-24-2013, 05:47 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Honestly, I think Glen will AT LEAST give him until the roster is a bit more healthy. Nash is a big question mark, but you know when Hagelin is back... you know when Cally is back.

Look, I'm not saying this team isn't ******. It is. I'm not saying they're putting effort in, we have EVERY right to question that at this point.

What I'm saying is he's going to be given a fair chance, with a roster that inlcudes 5 of his top-6... not 50% which is what he's had to this point.

It's a long season, and if we play as bad as this until Thanksgiving... trend upwards until x-mas and then get HOT after the Olympics... we'd be in the play-offs.

The reason why patience is a virtue is because it isn't easy, and not everyone can have it... especially at times like this.
Well put. Obviously, the team has looked awful, but AV hasn't had anything like a competitive roster for more than a game or two either. You can't play musical chairs with coaches every two seconds. It'd be outrageous to fire AV without letting him get some time with most of the top 6 back and Hank healthy.

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10-24-2013, 08:46 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishBullet62 View Post
Gretzky was a great player and leader and also lead guys to the promise land too, how did his coaching career work out? Not saying he'd fail, but also not saying he'd succeed, but what legitimate evidence is there to prove mess would have been able to come in here with a new system and have this team grasp it faster and player better than they have with AV's system?

I also love the logic that coaching a second hand Olympic team in the deutchland cup translated to being able to coach and nhl team, just like how Gretzky being an executive director for team canada made him a qualified to be an nhl gm
You failed to answer my question.

"Because Gretzky failed"


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10-24-2013, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Player coaching? That's rich.

He was a great player. Great players do not think the game. Things come naturally to great players which is why they rarely make for good HC's.

They know where to be and what to do in most any situation. That knowledge is innate and very difficult to explain and or instruct others to comprehend.

These guys are in position to do things on the ice that others are not. They anticipate things happening when others do not. Which is what helps make them great.

Some of the best coaches EVER were marginal talented guys that were forced to think the game and from their vantage point on the bench watch the game unfold before theie eyes.

Torts is a good example of this. Marginal player, solid HC.

Al Arbour - Marginal player, great HC

Soctty Bowman - never made the NHL as a player. Great HC

AV same thing, decent HC, marginal talent.

It's very rare that a great player steps behind the bench and is even good, let alone great.

Messier, as great a player as he was, was not a player coach. He was a great player. Nothing more, nothing less.

He was a leader, which is what we need the most. NOTHING anyone has said tells anything about why he shouldn't be given a shot. Nothing.

Again, here's the argument against Messier...."Some other great players didn't work out"

You forgot Trottier btw.

But we'd rather this guy we currently see doing nothing positive here?

Un****ingbelieveable.

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10-24-2013, 08:54 PM
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The Boston hired Bobby Valentine, a good baseball coach, but completely wrong for the Red Sox clubhouse and mentality. He is gone in less than a calendar year and the replaced by John Farrell who knew the team inside and out. Worked out alright.

AV is a good hockey coach but a wrong fit for this team and the city. Too much gum chewing not enough gumption.

Not saying I would have hired Messier instead, but food for thought.

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10-24-2013, 08:55 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
I don't see how anybody could have any bad feeling towards Mess.
He did nothing wrong, he just is ambitious to be in the game.

Not mentioning everything he did as a Ranger, his contribution to the Armory Ice Rink project is remarkable and will perhaps completely change the hockey culture of this city for generations to come.
What a good service his doing with this project for the game of hockey in New York.
Well Gretzky failed so.....

Oh, and how good was the lineup Gretzky had as a coach??

I'm pretty sure Gretzky could've taken this group further than he took the BS lineup he had in PHX, and probably further than AV is doing now.

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10-24-2013, 08:58 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
So if he has been player/coaching since he started playing then we can include his "coaching" record from 00-01 to 03-04?
Sure, if you want to consider how into the game he really was at that transitional "midlife crisis" stage in his life...

I'd sooner consider the Mess we saw up until he was deflated by taking a backseat to a retiring Gretzky.

Still waiting for a legitimate argument against Messier....


Last edited by CHGoalie27: 10-24-2013 at 09:04 PM.
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10-24-2013, 09:07 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Well Gretzky failed so.....

Oh, and how good was the lineup Gretzky had as a coach??

I'm pretty sure Gretzky could've taken this group further than he took the BS lineup he had in PHX, and probably further than AV is doing now.
That has nothing to do with my post at all.
My point was Messier did plenty for the game of hockey in New York to which all fans, Rangers, Islanders, and Devils, should be greatful with the Armoury Rink project.

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10-24-2013, 09:08 PM
  #75
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...and Scott Arniel was an oh so excellent choice as well.

I would also like to know just what in the hell are they doing ****ing Brassard the way they are??? Talk about wasting a weapon.

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