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FA Signings, Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VIII: "The makeup has to be jigged"

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Old
10-23-2013, 06:13 PM
  #51
Oilbleeder
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Ignoring the trading Yak angle for a second, I wonder what it would take for the Rangers to trade Girardi. From their forum, it seems he's one of the few guys who isn't fitting in with AV's new system.

I think trading for him would round out our D. I don't think a guy who has played good D for so many years just forgets in one offseason. With the Rangers struggling (OMG we have more points than them!), maybe they think of cashing in on their free agents. Some of their beat writers have said that could be a possibility if the struggles continue(of the team that is).

Physical D-man who can move the puck out of our zone and play tough minutes. He won't come cheap, but I think he'd be a great addition for us.

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10-23-2013, 06:24 PM
  #52
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Regarding Mr. Kane out in Winnipeg - I would kill to have him on our team. He's like Guerin 2.0, only with more natural talent. I would HAPPILY send Yak packing for him. Doubt Chevy would be so keen on the deal though.

I've been watching the Jets' struggles with a great deal of interest. IMO, Kane and Bogo would solve our teams problems in a massive, earth-shattering way and Huddy is the only member of the old boys' club that I would be doing heel-clickers to see come back.

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10-23-2013, 06:30 PM
  #53
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The NYR are hurting because they have so many of their top players on the injury list at the moment. Girardi is a good dman but how is he at moving the puck. If we are going to trade for a dman he has to be able to move the puck out of our zone.

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10-23-2013, 06:33 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Ignoring the trading Yak angle for a second, I wonder what it would take for the Rangers to trade Girardi. From their forum, it seems he's one of the few guys who isn't fitting in with AV's new system.

I think trading for him would round out our D. I don't think a guy who has played good D for so many years just forgets in one offseason. With the Rangers struggling (OMG we have more points than them!), maybe they think of cashing in on their free agents. Some of their beat writers have said that could be a possibility if the struggles continue(of the team that is).

Physical D-man who can move the puck out of our zone and play tough minutes. He won't come cheap, but I think he'd be a great addition for us.
Girardi - Ference; Petry - Smid; J.Schultz - Belov doesn't look too bad. The dream piece would be a LH #1 guy to pair with Petry, but beggars can't be choosers.

If they'd deal him right now, I'd deal Marincin++. I wouldn't want to pay closer to the deadline when we're likely in a super bad position.

Not going to deal a 1st for a rental. We shouldn't be doing that till we're playoff regulars.

Unfortunately, unless we're getting a player with term on contract, I don't see any significant moves coming till Hall gets back and MacT can assess where we are relative to the standings.

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10-23-2013, 06:38 PM
  #55
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Regarding Mr. Kane out in Winnipeg - I would kill to have him on our team. He's like Guerin 2.0, only with more natural talent. I would HAPPILY send Yak packing for him. Doubt Chevy would be so keen on the deal though.

I've been watching the Jets' struggles with a great deal of interest. IMO, Kane and Bogo would solve our teams problems in a massive, earth-shattering way and Huddy is the only member of the old boys' club that I would be doing heel-clickers to see come back.
I wouldn't trade Yak for Kane. That's just me. If R says Hall has third line skills then he'll blow a gasket watching Kane. His puck skills are poor and he can't make a pass to save his life. That's based on many live game samples. Love his shot but I am just not a fan. He is fast, hits and gives a good effort but I don't think his upside is even close to Yaks. Don't get me wrong, not saying he is ineffective but in live viewings he is just not that impresssive.

Bogo has been less than impressive this year on his off side. He's not a #1 and even the media here in WPG say that.

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10-23-2013, 06:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
@Slapshotsuperstar

Lets not get carried away with Arcobello.. His assists are great but I would easily bump him out of top 6 for Schenn. I would actually bump down the Nuge to 2C for Schenn as well.

Hall-Schenn-Ebs
Perron-Nuge-Hemsky\Simmonds

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Old
10-23-2013, 07:42 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli View Post
Girardi - Ference; Petry - Smid; J.Schultz - Belov doesn't look too bad. The dream piece would be a LH #1 guy to pair with Petry, but beggars can't be choosers.

If they'd deal him right now, I'd deal Marincin++. I wouldn't want to pay closer to the deadline when we're likely in a super bad position.

Not going to deal a 1st for a rental. We shouldn't be doing that till we're playoff regulars.

Unfortunately, unless we're getting a player with term on contract, I don't see any significant moves coming till Hall gets back and MacT can assess where we are relative to the standings.
I personally wouldn't mind trading a 1st for him if he's open to an extension.

Smid-Petry
Ference-Girardi
Belov-J.Schultz

Gives us a solid D. I think Ference's game would really benefit from having Girardi as his partner. I think if he is the complimentary guy defensively, he's at his best. Girardi is a damn good D-man, has played tough minutes well. Is physical too. I think he'd round out our D quite well. He's also got a decent breakout pass.

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10-23-2013, 07:50 PM
  #58
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Sorry my kinda snarky response was more that the Oilers have assembled some high-end talent over the last 3 years and been crushed. There are many reasons for that.
Is the fact they have too much high end talent one of them? No.

Quote:
But I also think that probably every Stanley Cup championship team in living memory has had a pretty balanced roster.
"Balance" is a load of crap. The best teams are the ones with the best players. That's it.

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I'm pretty positive our roster is not a SC winning one
Right now? Probably not. Imagine how much further away we'd be without any high end talent. Oh wait: you don't have to imagine it. That's been the reality for this franchise for most of the last 20-odd years. And now that we have an embarrassment of riches, people want to chuck some of it overboard to fit some abstract notion of what a team should look like? It's embarrassing.

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10-23-2013, 08:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Is the fact they have too much high end talent one of them? No.



"Balance" is a load of crap. The best teams are the ones with the best players. That's it.



Right now? Probably not. Imagine how much further away we'd be without any high end talent. Oh wait: you don't have to imagine it. That's been the reality for this franchise for most of the last 20-odd years. And now that we have an embarrassment of riches, people want to chuck some of it overboard to fit some abstract notion of what a team should look like? It's embarrassing.
Balance is always good. A team as soft as ours won't win anything soon. With the lack of grit on this team, a lot of other things (PP, PK, offensive skill, total commitment to the team) would have to come together really nicely to get close to winning the cup.

Obviously, one could say that about any team, but with EDM's soft lineup in particular. The playoff grind would be especially tough.

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10-23-2013, 10:38 PM
  #60
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Agreed. Don't mind him as a player, he's definitely good, but as a person... it's another story

"Evander Kane ‏@EKane9JETS
First game back at the MTS tonight. Lets show the gucci mane how loud you guys can be! #thenatural"

Seriously, if you call yourself "the Gucci Mane" or shave YMCMB into your hair, I don't really want you on this team that ego is massive
I don't think he was calling himself Gucci Mane... Nobody would ever do that lol. That guy is messed... BURR

With that being said, I work at a popular restaurant in Winnipeg that NHL players frequently eat at when they are in town and Kane is a regular. He is a super nice guy, PAYS ALL HIS BILLS, and doesn't come off as cocky or arrogant at all. Honestly, I think this whole thing about his behavior outside of the rink is some ridiculous media stunt. Just MO.

Also keep in mind how young he is. Not everyone who makes the big leagues needs to instantly be some super mature man who is as well spoken and received as a 40yr old man.

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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I'd do

Yakupov + Arcobello + N. Schultz

for

B. Schenn + Simmonds


Hall Schenn Eberle
Perron RNH Simmonds
Joensuu Gagner Hemsky
Gazdic Gordon Pitlick

Is a considerably more balanced lineup.
I would want more from Philly if I am giving up Yak and Arco. Maybe a 1st/B+ Prospect/Meszaros

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Old
10-23-2013, 10:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jp7 View Post
Agreed. Don't mind him as a player, he's definitely good, but as a person... it's another story

"Evander Kane ‏@EKane9JETS
First game back at the MTS tonight. Lets show the gucci mane how loud you guys can be! #thenatural"

Seriously, if you call yourself "the Gucci Mane" or shave YMCMB into your hair, I don't really want you on this team that ego is massive
I'm not sure how where you got that from.. to me it doesn't look like he was calling himself that at all.

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10-23-2013, 11:00 PM
  #62
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I like Simmonds' game a lot, but I am a little puzzled by one thing here:

On this team, the forward mix isn't perfect by any means, but it sure isn't the biggest problem with the team. Why do all these trade proposals involve forward for forward trades, yet barely ever involve getting a D-man? I think it's pretty obvious that we need top 4 quality d-men more than we need to change the forward mix. I thought that was the feeling here anyway...

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10-23-2013, 11:31 PM
  #63
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Because top dman are hard to get what team has one available
PHX
Yak
EDM
Yandle
Samuelson

Now we just need lazar

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Old
10-23-2013, 11:35 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Because top dman are hard to get what team has one available
PHX
Yak
EDM
Yandle
Samuelson

Now we just need lazar
I've heard things that while Yandle is good he also faces fairly weak competition, inflating his numbers. But I could have heard wrong. I've seen many say to not call him a top dman.

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10-23-2013, 11:58 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Because top dman are hard to get what team has one available
PHX
Yak
EDM
Yandle
Samuelson

Now we just need lazar
No doubt they're hard to get. But IF you're trading Yakupov, you don't do it for lesser quality role forwards people are suggesting. This team won't make a lot of noise until the D is improved, and we can't just wait around for Nurse, Klefbom et all to be ready, we need a solid defensive anchor right away. With a player that projects the way Yakupov does offensively, there has to be a team willing to make a deal sooner or later. Not advocating trading Yakupov, but IF do, it needs to be for D IMO.

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Old
10-24-2013, 12:10 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Is the fact they have too much high end talent one of them? No.



"Balance" is a load of crap. The best teams are the ones with the best players. That's it.



Right now? Probably not. Imagine how much further away we'd be without any high end talent. Oh wait: you don't have to imagine it. That's been the reality for this franchise for most of the last 20-odd years. And now that we have an embarrassment of riches, people want to chuck some of it overboard to fit some abstract notion of what a team should look like? It's embarrassing.
Yea thats right... You can have all the offense in the world but defence is what wins you games. So maybe your definition of best player needs to be changed.

As you brought up int this thread I said I dont care if we have 3-4-5 thirty goal scorers if we dont win games. Last year we had 4 guys on pace for 25+ goals and were 10 points out of the playoffs. Mean while a team like the blues with two guys on pace for 25+ goals finishes 4th in the division. Guys who can prevent goals are just as important as guys scoring them and once we as fans figure that out we'll be a lot better off.

I'd easily deal Yakupov, Smid, Hemsky for Couturier, Schenn, Simmonds, Coburn. Then I'd look to flip Gagner+Klefbom to Phoenix for Yandle and our 1st+N.Schutz to NYR at the deadline for Girardi. Roll with this lineup going into the playoffs knock on wood.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Perron-Schenn-Simmonds
Couturier-Gordon-Joensuu
Gazdic-Arcobello-Pitlick
Smyth, Smack

Yandle-Girardi
Coburn-Petry
Belov-Schultz
Grebeshkov

Dubnyk
Labarbera

Still need a goalie but by moving those 3 assets we give ourselves quite a few more assets to go out and get a half decent dman(not a legit #1 but top pairing).

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Old
10-24-2013, 12:12 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
I like Simmonds' game a lot, but I am a little puzzled by one thing here:

On this team, the forward mix isn't perfect by any means, but it sure isn't the biggest problem with the team. Why do all these trade proposals involve forward for forward trades, yet barely ever involve getting a D-man? I think it's pretty obvious that we need top 4 quality d-men more than we need to change the forward mix. I thought that was the feeling here anyway...
To me messing with the D mix is a bit tricky. I think most of us will agree our consensus top 4 is:

Smid-Petry
Ference- J. Schultz

some may argue the Belov is knocking on the door but this should be who pretty much everyone considers the top 4. So Smid is recently re-signed it's a little off putting to trade a guy that you just extended, though honestly I would still think about doing it. Then you have Petry who I would really like to keep and feel that he is generally undervalued around the league and deserves a top 4 role. Ference is the captain and recently re-signed I'm sure he was told he would be playing top 4 minutes if he signed here and it's way too early to go back on that, I also think he has fit pretty well into a top 4 role on this team. Next you have J. Schultz who I think is most deserving of being demoted to the 3rd pairing given his generally poor defensive zone play, but again this is a player who's got really high offensive potential and needs the playing time to really blossom going forward; he also chose us over multiple other suitors so you really have to give him every opportunity to succeed.

Then we have two (some may say 3) really solid left side defense prospects who you have to factor into the equation if you are getting someone long term and then the previously mentioned Belov who I think most on here would really like to retain. Getting a true stud d-man is a hard thing to do, I don't see any on the market at this point, and I don't think any will be available until some teams are ready to throw the towel in on the season.

I'd say the only high-ish end D I could see being available would be either Bogosian or Byfuglien due to Trouba's strong play and Girardi out of New York (maybe Marc Staal, but he's scary to trade for given the Staal reunion factor). It's still too early to see any of those names to really be out in earnest on the market and teams would likely only be taking feelers at most until the season is a bit further along.



Personally I think I'm more interested in messing with the forward mix, I don't think it would take much more on that front to make us a real pain in the butt to handle in the oppositions end of the ice. While we might have trouble getting out of our own zone and defending properly we could give other teams fits as well in their own zone despite them having a stronger d group with just a few small tweaks. Whereas our defense needs overhaul and improvement to really become a strong defensive group barring acquiring one of the top 10 d-men in the league, who could really help shelter one of our d-men.

Of the D I think could be available, I want to say Girardi would be the best bet cause we need some more veterans and stabilizing defensive presence. I would actually prefer Bogosian he's a better puck rusher and could better help us play the style of play we want to bring and could help us further skew our strengths.

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Old
10-24-2013, 12:25 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Burnt Biscuits View Post
To me messing with the D mix is a bit tricky. I think most of us will agree our consensus top 4 is:

Smid-Petry
Ference- J. Schultz

some may argue the Belov is knocking on the door but this should be who pretty much everyone considers the top 4. So Smid is recently re-signed it's a little off putting to trade a guy that you just extended, though honestly I would still think about doing it. Then you have Petry who I would really like to keep and feel that he is generally undervalued around the league and deserves a top 4 role. Ference is the captain and recently re-signed I'm sure he was told he would be playing top 4 minutes if he signed here and it's way too early to go back on that, I also think he has fit pretty well into a top 4 role on this team. Next you have J. Schultz who I think is most deserving of being demoted to the 3rd pairing given his generally poor defensive zone play, but again this is a player who's got really high offensive potential and needs the playing time to really blossom going forward; he also chose us over multiple other suitors so you really have to give him every opportunity to succeed.

Then we have two (some may say 3) really solid left side defense prospects who you have to factor into the equation if you are getting someone long term and then the previously mentioned Belov who I think most on here would really like to retain. Getting a true stud d-man is a hard thing to do, I don't see any on the market at this point, and I don't think any will be available until some teams are ready to throw the towel in on the season.

I'd say the only high-ish end D I could see being available would be either Bogosian or Byfuglien due to Trouba's strong play and Girardi out of New York (maybe Marc Staal, but he's scary to trade for given the Staal reunion factor). It's still too early to see any of those names to really be out in earnest on the market and teams would likely only be taking feelers at most until the season is a bit further along.



Personally I think I'm more interested in messing with the forward mix, I don't think it would take much more on that front to make us a real pain in the butt to handle in the oppositions end of the ice. While we might have trouble getting out of our own zone and defending properly we could give other teams fits as well in their own zone despite them having a stronger d group with just a few small tweaks. Whereas our defense needs overhaul and improvement to really become a strong defensive group barring acquiring one of the top 10 d-men in the league, who could really help shelter one of our d-men.

Of the D I think could be available, I want to say Girardi would be the best bet cause we need some more veterans and stabilizing defensive presence. I would actually prefer Bogosian he's a better puck rusher and could better help us play the style of play we want to bring and could help us further skew our strengths.
Honestly, Girardi is one of the guys that came to mind when I typed that.
I know you're advocating changing the forward mix, but what would you expect to be the asking price for Girardi?
Also I dunno about Bogosian's availability, I like him plenty, but didn't he just sign a big RFA contract in the summer?

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10-24-2013, 12:29 AM
  #69
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I agree with people saying that you need skill in more then just goal scoring. Idk I think I'm just a wierdo but I'd rather have a Jonathan teows then Sidney Crosby I think the fact that no one scores while teows is on the ice and he scores a ton is a enter for a team that wants to win championships. Where as I think Crosby is a better player 1 to 1 I think teows brings more to a team.

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10-24-2013, 12:39 AM
  #70
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I agree with people saying that you need skill in more then just goal scoring. Idk I think I'm just a wierdo but I'd rather have a Jonathan teows then Sidney Crosby I think the fact that no one scores while teows is on the ice and he scores a ton is a enter for a team that wants to win championships. Where as I think Crosby is a better player 1 to 1 I think teows brings more to a team.

I could see us modelling ourselves after Chicago but we are still really far away from having the same level of assets that they have.

None of our players are as good defensively as the Chicago players. We need to add some size into our top 6 ala Brandon Saad and Bryan Bickell.

Defensively we don't have anyone close to Keith or Seabrook.

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10-24-2013, 12:40 AM
  #71
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Imo, all that scrutiny about Kane was massively overblown by the media

Kid seems fine to me and would be a hell of an addition to this team but trading for him is a pipe dream
I feel like black NHL players always get unfairly scrutinized. Not trying to start a race discussion, but Kane, Emery, Subban all got tore up by the media. Emery deserved it at one point, Kane and Subban not so much.

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10-24-2013, 12:48 AM
  #72
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I feel like black NHL players always get unfairly scrutinized. Not trying to start a race discussion, but Kane, Emery, Subban all got tore up by the media. Emery deserved it at one point, Kane and Subban not so much.
Jarome Iginla is one of the most respected players in the league. Quit the race ********.

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10-24-2013, 01:01 AM
  #73
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I feel like black NHL players always get unfairly scrutinized. Not trying to start a race discussion, but Kane, Emery, Subban all got tore up by the media. Emery deserved it at one point, Kane and Subban not so much.
Firstly I'd love to have Kane or especially Subban on our team, but how is Kane getting crapped on any different than Seguin? Both showed signs of real immaturity in recent years. I don't buy that they get anymore flack than any other player would unless you are saying that a majority of the media are racist which IMO would be a very unfair statement.

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10-24-2013, 01:03 AM
  #74
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Jarome Iginla is one of the most respected players in the league. Quit the race ********.
Agreed, hockey players are often times expected to be humble types so anyone that is brash, cocky or flashy gets looked upon in a bad light regardless of race.

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10-24-2013, 01:09 AM
  #75
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I feel like black NHL players always get unfairly scrutinized. Not trying to start a race discussion, but Kane, Emery, Subban all got tore up by the media. Emery deserved it at one point, Kane and Subban not so much.
Nothing to do with race, everything to do with being cocky IMO. Anyone in hockey who is cocky and really confident usually gets attacked unless they can really back it up. It's pretty rare for the hockey media or the NHL in general to embrace people who stand out or really speak their minds, hockey is a game of cliches and canned questions and answers, it plays it all very safe and straight laced.

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