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Official 2014 NHL Draft Discussion, Suck for Sam or Play Bad For Ekblad?

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10-24-2013, 09:22 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
I'm not doubting Seth Jones' ability and he certainly could've gone at #1-2, but stating such things as definite fact more than 6 months prior to the draft is stupid. Things can change and teams can have other needs. It has happened with Jones, it can happen with Ekblad.
It shouldn't have happened to Jones and it won't happen to Ekblad.

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10-24-2013, 11:48 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
It shouldn't have happened to Jones and it won't happen to Ekblad.
I think what hurt Jones the most is what MacKinnon (and Drouin) did to him and Portland in the final.

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10-24-2013, 11:50 AM
  #253
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I remember when Nick Ebert was a surefire top-5 pick.

He ended up being the last player drafted.

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10-24-2013, 11:53 AM
  #254
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There is zero percent chance he gets drafted lower than 2. 7th best player available is laughable. Ekblad is going to be a beast.
Laughable is placing Ekblad with beast in the same sentence. Maybe we're seeing different games, but he's been ordinary and hasn't stood out.

I see lack of elite quality in any attribute, missed defensive reads, lack of finish to all plays IE some guys you know will always make the right play, pass, win every battle.....

He's a very good player. But I'm not taking him over a skilled forward producing like an elite one (bennett, reinhart, perlini, mccann, dal colle)

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10-24-2013, 11:57 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Laughable is placing Ekblad with beast in the same sentence. Maybe we're seeing different games, but he's been ordinary and hasn't stood out.

I see lack of elite quality in any attribute, missed defensive reads, lack of finish to all plays IE some guys you know will always make the right play, pass, win every battle.....

He's a very good player. But I'm not taking him over a skilled forward producing like an elite one (bennett, reinhart, perlini, mccann, dal colle)
Well let's hope someone else does because if the Rangers get another top-10 pick and select a defenseman I'm done...

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10-24-2013, 11:57 AM
  #256
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Shane McColgan was considered a likely top-5 pick at one point. These years, especially the draft year, are so critical for these kids that you just never know what is going to happen. A lot can change in a few months. Ekblad looked great last year. This year he's been average. Too early to drop him out of the top-3, IMHO, but to each their own.

It's not a race to the NHL. Bogosian and Myers beat Karlsson and Pietrangelo to the NHL. Hell, Myers even won the Calder. Who would you rather have now? Jones is playing very well, but until Drouin has a shot to establish himself as an NHLer, it's all moot.

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10-24-2013, 12:47 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Well let's hope someone else does because if the Rangers get another top-10 pick and select a defenseman I'm done...

This is my feeling. As good as Ekblad may or may not be, Rangers desperately need a goal scorer in the draft.

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10-24-2013, 02:16 PM
  #258
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I agree very much with the underlined. Girardi should have been traded right after his all star year. If you don't think a player will continue to perform at a high level trade him before his stock drops. For example, I think trading Stepan over the summer was a good idea, because he was unlikely to repeat his performance from last year. The players we would have gotten for him is worth much more than his value once he can't continue his elite play. Sell an average player while he's playing elite for a larger return than he's worth.

What I don't agree with is trading a proven commodity for someone who hasn't even completed 1 season in the NHL. Trading McDonagh for Jones or MacKinnon is foolish imo. McDonagh is a top 20 dman in the league right now at the very least. He is still developing, only going to improve. Trading him for a rookie in the hope that we end up ahead is too large of a gamble to take.

What I would do though, is trade proven commodity for proven commodity. McDonagh for Hall/ Tavares/ Duchene/ Couture.
Thanks for the feedback.

To each their own.
The point w/MacKinnon was there was hope he would be at least Tavares, and have even higher (approaching Stamkos?) kind of ceiling. McD for Hall is basically coke for pepsi.

But obviously, there is a risk element involved cause if it was really clear McD was all but certain to be Stamkos II, not Hall, maybe Tavares II, Col would be that much more disinclined to even make the deal.

There is a legit ? of how much risk there is, and how much risk is too much risk.

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10-24-2013, 02:52 PM
  #259
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I think the difference between Shane McColgan and Ebbert is that none of them were granted exceptional player status in the OHL. The situations aren't that similar.

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10-24-2013, 02:59 PM
  #260
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I think McDonagh is the Rangers only untradable asset on defense. Girardi and Del Zotto could easily be gone by the dead line and no one knows if Staal wants to resign. McDonagh was signed to be there for the long haul and without him the entire defense will need a facelift which would set the team back even further.

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10-24-2013, 07:36 PM
  #261
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I think McDonagh is the Rangers only untradable asset on defense. Girardi and Del Zotto could easily be gone by the dead line and no one knows if Staal wants to resign. McDonagh was signed to be there for the long haul and without him the entire defense will need a facelift which would set the team back even further.
Agreed with this. Honestly, when thinking of the Rangers' defensemen for the long term, the guys I would most want to keep are:

McDonagh
.
.
Moore
Stralman
.
McIlrath


Don't get me wrong, this isn't in terms of whom I think is most talented overall (certainly not right now), but rather who I think fits cohesively when thinking about a 3, 5 or 7 year plan.

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10-25-2013, 07:56 AM
  #262
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Contrary to many on this board, the Rangers cupboard isn't bare. There are solid to good players on the team and system. They won't need to tank several years to be good. One year will do them good.

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10-25-2013, 10:50 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Contrary to many on this board, the Rangers cupboard isn't bare. There are solid to good players on the team and system. They won't need to tank several years to be good. One year will do them good.
Unfortunately in typical ranger fashion, they can't even pick the right year to bottom out. McDavid would change the entire future of this franchise.

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10-25-2013, 10:59 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Contrary to many on this board, the Rangers cupboard isn't bare. There are solid to good players on the team and system. They won't need to tank several years to be good. One year will do them good.
We have a lot of bottom 6 and a few with an outside shot as 2nd liners which is good. But we need a top line wing that can grow with us.

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10-25-2013, 11:58 AM
  #265
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We have a lot of bottom 6 and a few with an outside shot as 2nd liners which is good. But we need a top line wing that can grow with us.
That's my point. Sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward.

I was calling for a tank season in 09-10, because I wanted Hall or Seguin. That would have really helped this organization now and going forward. Yet you had fans on here acting as if that was some horrible, ridiculous idea (I won't name names). They want to hold on to every season and not throw it away, like it's gold.

Looking back, it don't look so horrible, now does it?

This team needs elite talent. That is what is mainly missing. Every game you watch, it is obvious they're not that talented. Which is why they probably can't execute this system well. Yes, Nash, Callahan and Hagelin are missing and they SHOULD be better when they return. Still, with those players they are lacking in talent overall. Hagelin isn't even a top 6 forward imo. He would make a perfect 3rd liner.

The Rangers & Oilers are complete opposites.

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10-25-2013, 12:25 PM
  #266
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Unfortunately in typical ranger fashion, they can't even pick the right year to bottom out. McDavid would change the entire future of this franchise.
I'm all for tanking the next 2 years to get elite prospects.

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10-25-2013, 01:01 PM
  #267
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Where would you guys rank the top 5 in terms of offensive talent. Forget all around game. I mean pure offensive talent.

Would Reinhart be #1 or is he more of a complete player but not an offensive dynamo?

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10-25-2013, 01:27 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
I'm all for tanking the next 2 years to get elite prospects.
Some people act like its heresy. In fact getting young cost controlled elite talent is necessary in the salary cap era. We could also keep do what we've been doing until the 1994 chants start up.

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10-25-2013, 10:21 PM
  #269
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Agreed with this. Honestly, when thinking of the Rangers' defensemen for the long term, the guys I would most want to keep are:

McDonagh
.
.
Moore
Stralman
.
McIlrath


Don't get me wrong, this isn't in terms of whom I think is most talented overall (certainly not right now), but rather who I think fits cohesively when thinking about a 3, 5 or 7 year plan.
You would keep Stralman over Staal?

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10-25-2013, 10:27 PM
  #270
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I'm all for tanking the next 2 years to get elite prospects.
I would agree except for the fact that Hank isn't getting any younger. I'm afraid that if we do tank and get those elite young goal scorers than we won't have the goaltending because Lundqvist either moved on or is exiting his window of being an above average keeper. We've wasted one of the best goalies careers of this generation with this perpetual mediocrity up front.

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10-25-2013, 10:33 PM
  #271
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I would agree except for the fact that Hank isn't getting any younger. I'm afraid that if we do tank and get those elite young goal scorers than we won't have the goaltending because Lundqvist either moved on or is exiting his window of being an above average keeper. We've wasted one of the best goalies careers of this generation with this perpetual mediocrity up front.
When you have elite forwards and defensemen you don't need elite goaltending to win the cup. Look at the goaltenders who have won it lately. I love Hank but I would have preferred finding a zetterberg or datsyuk in the later rounds.

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10-25-2013, 11:36 PM
  #272
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Would love to get Sam Reinhart. He's exactly what this team needs.

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10-26-2013, 12:14 AM
  #273
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You would keep Stralman over Staal?
In a vacuum, no.

But, given his injury history, what it'll cost to keep him on his next contract in a cap world, the team's depth on the left side and, most importantly, what I believe is a very real threat that he'll want to play with his brothers... then, when looking at what's best for the team 3, 5 or 7 years in the future (which was my point) - yes.

I realize it's controversial, but I stand by it.

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10-26-2013, 04:13 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by LeetchisGod View Post
When you have elite forwards and defensemen you don't need elite goaltending to win the cup. Look at the goaltenders who have won it lately. I love Hank but I would have preferred finding a zetterberg or datsyuk in the later rounds.
The last six goalies who have been to the Cup finals are Niemi, Rask, Quick, Brodeur, Thomas and Luongo. That argument is a bit weak, as goaltending obviously helps tremendously. Quick and Thomas were both Conn Smythe winners for a reason, the Kings and Bruins don't win jack without them.

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10-26-2013, 05:33 AM
  #275
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The last six goalies who have been to the Cup finals are Niemi, Rask, Quick, Brodeur, Thomas and Luongo. That argument is a bit weak, as goaltending obviously helps tremendously. Quick and Thomas were both Conn Smythe winners for a reason, the Kings and Bruins don't win jack without them.
Assuming you meant Crawford instead of Neimi? However the fact that the Hawks have managed 2 cups with what I would consider 'average' NHL goal tending helps show that a good goalie getting hot is likely to be just as good as an excellent goalie playing to standard, but it gives you more room in the cap to bolster other areas.

To look at it another way:
Crawford v Rask - winning team had the 'lesser' goalie
Quick v Brodeur - 2 very good goalies (one a HHOF player on the way out)
Thomas v Loungo - I'd have Thomas pegged as the 'lesser' goalie if you are talking careers
Niemi v Leighton - average vs less than average, again showing that you don't need a brilliant goalie
MAF v Osgood - both good goalies with some obvious flaws

Of that list, Lou is the best goalie (not counting Brodeur at this point of his career) right now, although Quick could surpass him. Regardless, you don't need a top 3 goalie to playoff for the cup, you need a well balanced side and if you cut a few corners with the G position it probably won't bite you in the arse as much as else where in the roster

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