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The fish rots from the head down...

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Old
10-23-2013, 05:18 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
The GM's of the Red Wings, Devils, Sharks, Bruins, Ducks, Blues, Canucks, Kings, to name a few.
I'll give you the Wings and to a point Boston.

The other teams were not very competitive certain years, they sucked it up and drafted well.

I'm not trying to defend Sather here people, I think he's pretty poor I just think there are other influences that come into play. The fish rots from the head down, well there is someone above him that hired him and keeps him employed. There are reasons he is here.

If I wanted to blame Sather entirely, to me that would be like blaming Torts or even Renney completely for the Rangers those years. There is something else going on on top of Sather being a mediocre to poor GM in terms of building a true contender.

My take, there is no pressure on him to do so and no consequences for not doing so as long as the other important financial factors are in line. Look to how Chicago changed with new ownership. Look to what the Blues are doing now. Lemieux in Pitt. Having ownership that give a crap means something, usually it means the GM is required to build towards something within a reasonable amount of time in order to be retained.

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10-23-2013, 05:25 PM
  #127
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I'll give you the Wings and to a point Boston.

The other teams were not very competitive certain years, they sucked it up and drafted well.
All of these teams have had similar draft positions over the years as the Rangers. They've just drafted better and/or acquired better players through trades and free agency as well.

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10-23-2013, 06:31 PM
  #128
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Sather came here with a money mentality. It wasn't something that was mandated by Dolan. Especially when you consider the "If I had their payroll" bit he said well before he came here. This was a 'buy a championship' kind of front-office from the get go.
Maybe. It's probably more like "Sather came in with a money mentality and Dolan really liked that about him at the time."

I agree with Jersey Girl here. Sather's decisions have been indefensible, but the problem here really comes from Dolan's disinterest in the team as a hockey team (rather than simply a money machine). Unaccountable GMs make unaccountable decisions.

All in all, this thread is little more than a wolf blowing on a brick house, as far as I'm concerned.

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10-23-2013, 08:06 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
All talk of trades or replacing the coach is simply re-shuffling the deck chair on the Titanic. As long as this current front office remains in power the team will never move beyond what it has been — a middle of the road team that might win a round of two in the playoffs. Any thought that this team is a Cup contender is delusional.

The GM's lazy, quick fix, smartest-guy-in-the-room mentality has trickled down to every part of this organization — and that includes the purported draft master Gordie Clarke and the supposed personnel wizard Jeff Gorton. The inability, or unwillingness, to look beyond the season that’s right in front of them is what keeps this the franchise in a constant revolving door of mediocrity.

But the laziness of which I speak is no more evident than in the fact that the team lacks an identity and organizational philosophy. Because creating an identity and team philosophy takes time and hard work. That’s why it seems the GM, and the AGM are basically throwing darts while blindfolded when it comes to signing players or making trades. And that results in making moves in a vacuum with no forethought whatsoever (see the madness of the Nash trade, Gaborik trade, Torts firing timeline as a good example of that short-sightedness).

So what is this team? Or what do the powers that be want it to be?

If they are a gritty in your face team, then there’s no place for Taylor Pyatt, Mats Zuccarello, Derick Brassard or Benoit Pouliot on this roster.

If they are a puck control, up-tempo, push the pace team, they simply lack the personnel and talent to play that way — and a coach (or coaching change) can’t change that

The lack of an organizational philosophy is also the reason for the stunning failure in free agency. Sure, the high profile signing busts—Drury, Gomez, Redden, Kasparaitis, Holik and possibly Richards—are well documented (and don’t tell me the Gomez contract was OK because they got McDonagh, that was never the intent when Gomez was signe). But consider this: since the first lockout, this GM has spent $32.275M on bottom six, place-holder, gap-fillers in Arron Asham, Mike Rupp, Donald Brashear, Derek Boogaard, Benoit Pouliot, Taylor Pyatt, Dominic Moore, Ruslan Fedotenko, Jason Ward, Ville Nieminen, Aaron Voros and Patrick Rissmiller. How is it that in 13 years, the team has not been able to develop players who are better than the names listed above?

Maybe it will be that history will show that the greatest achievement of the John Tortorella years was the ability of the coach to serve as a buffer between the sloppy, lazy mentality of the front office and his players. He was able to defuse Glen Sather's blustering gobbledegook of "Our goal is to win the Stanley Cup" with something that the players could control "We're going to outwork you every shift." Now that he’s gone, things seem to have reverted back to the way things were — especially without Ryan Callahan. Maybe the biggest message that firing Torts sent was this: the inmates now run the asylum.

The fact is every part of this team deserves blame. But the true failure is with the directionless decision makers at the top It’s been 13 years and they have failed thoroughly to build an identity, philosophy or even long-term strategy. Just let that sink in for a second, it’s taken 13 years to get this team to….here.
Couldnt have said it better myself. Terrific, all encompassing post.

The managements inability or refusal to have a concise vision over the long haul is this teams biggest problem. It seems to manifest itself straight through the organization and onto the ice.

I'll piggy back on SBOB's thought regarding the rearranging of deck chairs. Its not a surprise that there is major turnover and a "new face" to the team every camp, whether its Drury & Gomez, Redden, Nash, Gaborik, Richards, Torts, Av... so on and so forth. Gotta sell tickets (Dolan). Gotta push the hype. The Knicks are no different.

Every year there is expected turnover on any given roster. But with the Rangers it always a key cog. Richards came in and couldnt play with Gaborik. Gaborik couldnt adapt his game. Drury couldnt play with anyone. Torts wore out his welcome (despite being successful). Moving parts in and out. Reaping one area to fix another.

Now the injury bug hits them. Maybe its a good thing.

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10-24-2013, 10:47 AM
  #130
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Its not a surprise that there is major turnover and a "new face" to the team every camp, whether its Drury & Gomez, Redden, Nash, Gaborik, Richards, Torts, Av... so on and so forth. Gotta sell tickets (Dolan). Gotta push the hype. The Knicks are no different.
This is basically what I've been trying to say,

Sather may be a worse GM than many others but replacing him is not going to change the way the Rangers, Knicks, MSG, Cablevision, Chase, JP Morgan want the Rangers run.

If there is a mandate to import somewhat commonly known names to increase marketability and only certain names want to be Rangers or Knicks the GMs of those teams is going to import them when the opportunity arises.

http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=538170

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10-24-2013, 11:20 AM
  #131
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Maybe. It's probably more like "Sather came in with a money mentality and Dolan really liked that about him at the time."

I agree with Jersey Girl here. Sather's decisions have been indefensible, but the problem here really comes from Dolan's disinterest in the team as a hockey team (rather than simply a money machine). Unaccountable GMs make unaccountable decisions.

All in all, this thread is little more than a wolf blowing on a brick house, as far as I'm concerned.
Right. Isn't that what I said? Sather came here with the money mentality already in place. Dolan might have helped with his checkbook and zero accountability, but he certainly didn't instill the idea in Sather's head.

I'd never, ever say that Sather has been a good GM in NY. I am, however, willing to admit that he has made a handful of solid moves during his time here. Blind squirrels, as they say. I have a hard time imagining that Dolan is the master-mind behind the team's direction over the last decade and a half. Sather even started a rebuild in 2004 and is still here 10 years later. Granted, he abandoned that idea rather quickly, but I've just never bought into the idea that Dolan would put the kibosh on a rebuilding Rangers team. The area fills up even when the team is garbage, and with the amount of cash that pours into MSG from other means than attendance, that playoff revenue is small potatoes in the big picture.

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10-24-2013, 11:25 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Right. Isn't that what I said? Sather came here with the money mentality already in place. Dolan might have helped with his checkbook and zero accountability, but he certainly didn't instill the idea in Sather's head.
Well, not exactly. You said there wasn't a mandate from Dolan, but what I was really saying is that Sather doesn't get hired without that mentality, which makes the mandate exist, even if it's implicit rather than explicit.

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10-24-2013, 12:19 PM
  #133
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What would it take for Sather to be removed? Even with an abysmal, 1st overall draft pick season, would that be enough? Does this team's performance even correlate to Sather's job security?

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10-24-2013, 12:28 PM
  #134
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Well, not exactly. You said there wasn't a mandate from Dolan, but what I was really saying is that Sather doesn't get hired without that mentality, which makes the mandate exist, even if it's implicit rather than explicit.
Eh, not sure I agree. The Rangers spend money freely. I'd argue that it's just a luxury more so than a mandate. The fact that Sather had a reputation was the key. Finding a GM that is willing to spend money like it's nothing is like trying to find a kid who likes candy.

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10-24-2013, 01:41 PM
  #135
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Seriously why don't we organize a "Fire Sather" boycott of 1 home game.

Start a facebook page, give it a twitter account, the whole 9. Make it far enough in the future this season so EVERYONE knows about it.

Would that get it done, I wonder?

That dumb rally a few years back did nothing. Unless revenue is directly affected, nobody will care/notice.

Dolan cares about 1 thing... $$$$$$$$$$

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10-24-2013, 01:44 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Seriously why don't we organize a "Fire Sather" boycott of 1 home game.

Start a facebook page, give it a twitter account, the whole 9. Make it far enough in the future this season so EVERYONE knows about it.

Would that get it done, I wonder?

That dumb rally a few years back did nothing. Unless revenue is directly affected, nobody will care/notice.

Dolan cares about 1 thing... $$$$$$$$$$
It won't do anything

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10-24-2013, 01:50 PM
  #137
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It won't do anything
If nobody showed up to a home game, I'd say that would garner some attention, no?

Anyone on this board who pays to go to a game this year is crazy. I mean, really? This product is not worth anyone's hard-earned money.

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10-24-2013, 01:55 PM
  #138
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If nobody showed up to a home game, I'd say that would garner some attention, no?

Anyone on this board who pays to go to a game this year is crazy. I mean, really? This product is not worth anyone's hard-earned money.
Do you watch the games? Buy merchandise? Buy NHL Center Ice? All of these things line Dolan's pockets.

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10-24-2013, 02:00 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
If nobody showed up to a home game, I'd say that would garner some attention, no?

Anyone on this board who pays to go to a game this year is crazy. I mean, really? This product is not worth anyone's hard-earned money.
Good luck with that.

That would have been impossible during the 7 year streak of no playoffs.

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10-24-2013, 02:03 PM
  #140
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Do you watch the games? Buy merchandise? Buy NHL Center Ice? All of these things line Dolan's pockets.
I have obviously, but I'm not directly spending any money this year. And no, I'm not going to cancel my entire DirecTV. I'm local, so i don't need to pay extra for any package to see them.

If nobody showed up to a game.... I really and truly believe it would do the trick. At least if threatened with more boycott dates.

People don't understand the power we have, and that goes for politics, or anything else. The problem is WE, the fans, keep going to games, spending money, etc. WE are the problem.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

-Edmund Burke

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10-24-2013, 07:03 PM
  #141
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I have obviously, but I'm not directly spending any money this year. And no, I'm not going to cancel my entire DirecTV. I'm local, so i don't need to pay extra for any package to see them.

If nobody showed up to a game.... I really and truly believe it would do the trick. At least if threatened with more boycott dates.

People don't understand the power we have, and that goes for politics, or anything else. The problem is WE, the fans, keep going to games, spending money, etc. WE are the problem.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

-Edmund Burke
If anything, then anything. There is a 0% chance of nobody showing up to a game. Actually 0. Some people have money and go just to do something out of the normal routine, some people from out of town go to do a "New York thing," some die-hards go to watch guys skate around in NYR jerseys no matter how they play, etc. etc. etc. Not everyone cares about speeding up the exit of a 70 year old GM, and I'd say most people don't care enough to even think about not going to a game if they have the chance.

"We" aren't the problem. We let the problem persist maybe, but there's a big difference there.

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10-24-2013, 07:19 PM
  #142
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People won't show up to the game?

That's great. But the tickets have already been sold.

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10-24-2013, 07:29 PM
  #143
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Do you watch the games? Buy merchandise? Buy NHL Center Ice? All of these things line Dolan's pockets.
Online streams. Not a dime goes to MSG

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10-24-2013, 08:54 PM
  #144
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Do you watch the games? Buy merchandise? Buy NHL Center Ice? All of these things line Dolan's pockets.
Don't buy tickets.
Don't buy merch.
Don't buy NHL Center Ice

Don't have a choice for cable.

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10-24-2013, 10:22 PM
  #145
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Don't buy tickets.
Don't buy merch.
Don't buy NHL Center Ice

Don't have a choice for cable.
if you're on this site there are alternatives to giving them ratings. I don't think it matters that much anyway though if you only watch on tv

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10-26-2013, 10:19 AM
  #146
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People won't show up to the game?

That's great. But the tickets have already been sold.
And the most expensive seats too.

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10-28-2013, 08:54 AM
  #147
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And the most expensive seats too.
Just really make one wonder what has to happen for Sather to be shown the door.

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10-28-2013, 11:49 AM
  #148
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Just really make one wonder what has to happen for Sather to be shown the door.
Will not happen. Period. Sather's teams missed the playoffs seven years in a row...in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs.

If that won't get Sather fired, nothing will. Sather will walk out the door when Sather decides to walk out the door....and not one second earlier.

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10-28-2013, 12:14 PM
  #149
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Will not happen. Period. Sather's teams missed the playoffs seven years in a row...in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs.

If that won't get Sather fired, nothing will. Sather will walk out the door when Sather decides to walk out the door....and not one second earlier.
We missed the playoffs four years under Sather. The first three were under Smith. And with the way Smith left the team I doubt even a competent GM could have gotten the team back into the playoffs before the lockout.

Realistically the team needs to start missing the playoffs. Sather stuffing Lil Jimmys pockets with playoff revenue doesn't help the situation at all.

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10-28-2013, 12:27 PM
  #150
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Realistically the team needs to start missing the playoffs. Sather stuffing Lil Jimmys pockets with playoff revenue doesn't help the situation at all.
I don't understand this logic at all. The further you advance in the playoffs, the more games you play, the more playoff revenue. That should make Dolan want a team that plays all the way to the finals, not a round or two.

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