HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

FA Signings, Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VIII: "The makeup has to be jigged"

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-24-2013, 11:11 AM
  #101
Tw0Shoes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I assume you're referring to the Lindros trade, which brought back a guy who ended up being one of the best ever in Peter Forsberg (hardly a trade for depth). If Forsberg hadn't panned out, do you think they win that deal and a Cup?
Pretty sure they traded the people they drafted, plus hextall for Patrick Roy too. That might have helped.

Tw0Shoes is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 11:19 AM
  #102
Moose Coleman
Registered User
 
Moose Coleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
This is the problem though! Do we have to wait until all these guys are 25 before we start winning games? Or should we move one(the youngest) and upgrade right now? It's not like we'd be adding a ton of age but Simmonds is 25 and going into his prime, Schenn is 22, Couturier is 20, Coburn is 28. We're adding two guys in their prime and the other guys will be hitting it sooner then Yakupov.
I don't think adding those guys moves us any closer to the playoffs or the Cup right now when you factor in what we're losing.

Quote:
The Nordiques traded 3 of their 1st overalls and won a cup so I don't think it's a bad strategy to follow
Of all the assets they got from all those trades, only one was around when they actually won the Cup (Forsberg). The rest got traded for other parts.

Moose Coleman is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 11:20 AM
  #103
skorf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 271
vCash: 500
I'm against trading our first rounder, with how strong our division is, there's a good chance we are out of the playoffs even with a guy like Girardi. I'd love Girardi but we already don't have a second rounder. I hate the idea of trading potential players in 3 years for a guy now (one that would have no reason not to test the free agent market if he comes here)... plus look at some of the guys picked between 5-14 the last few years.

As for the 3rd/4th line argument. I'd say we have a solid enough 3rd and 4th line once everyone gets healthy. Hall, Perron, Gagner, Nuge, Arcobello, Gordon, Hemsky, Yak, Eberle, Joensuu, Acton, Pitlick, Gazdic, Smyth... not a bad 14 guys to have for forwards (can add in Jones and Pitlick too if you want, that's 16 guys that I'd say are NHL caliber).
If anything, our top guys need to develop better 2 way games, but that takes time. I'd argue Patrick Kane is a solid 2 way player now, but he wasn't his first few years. Overall I'd say forward isn't where we need to improve

What we need is that top pairing D (everyone is looking at forwards, but EVERY NHL champion has a top pairing D). Keith, Doughty, Chara, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer (I guess the Penguins didn't really have one or Carolina, but the last 4 champs have)

Someone better than a Girardi or a Cobourn. If we're moving a guy like Yakupov or Eberle... I'd rather see us target that D we need, even if we have to overpay. Rather than trade Yakupov for 2-3 more forwards to our forward group.

Also I'd take right now
Perron/Nuge/Eberle
Hall/Gordon/Yak
Gagner/Arco/Hemsky
Joensuu/Acton/Smyth
-Gazdic, Jones
over
Perron/Nuge/Eberle
Hall/Schenn/Gagner
Simmonds/Gordon/Hemsky
Joensuu/Arco/Acton
-Gazdic, Smyth

skorf is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 11:22 AM
  #104
Moose Coleman
Registered User
 
Moose Coleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Of all the assets they got from all those trades, only one was around when they actually won the Cup (Forsberg). The rest got traded for other parts.
Actually I'm wrong on that point. That was the second Cup. There were 10 players from the trades on the first Avs Cup.

Regardless, there's not much of a lesson to take from that example.

Moose Coleman is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 11:38 AM
  #105
rockinghockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by skorf View Post
I'm against trading our first rounder, with how strong our division is, there's a good chance we are out of the playoffs even with a guy like Girardi. I'd love Girardi but we already don't have a second rounder. I hate the idea of trading potential players in 3 years for a guy now (one that would have no reason not to test the free agent market if he comes here)... plus look at some of the guys picked between 5-14 the last few years.

As for the 3rd/4th line argument. I'd say we have a solid enough 3rd and 4th line once everyone gets healthy. Hall, Perron, Gagner, Nuge, Arcobello, Gordon, Hemsky, Yak, Eberle, Joensuu, Acton, Pitlick, Gazdic, Smyth... not a bad 14 guys to have for forwards (can add in Jones and Pitlick too if you want, that's 16 guys that I'd say are NHL caliber).
If anything, our top guys need to develop better 2 way games, but that takes time. I'd argue Patrick Kane is a solid 2 way player now, but he wasn't his first few years. Overall I'd say forward isn't where we need to improve

What we need is that top pairing D (everyone is looking at forwards, but EVERY NHL champion has a top pairing D). Keith, Doughty, Chara, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer (I guess the Penguins didn't really have one or Carolina, but the last 4 champs have)

Someone better than a Girardi or a Cobourn. If we're moving a guy like Yakupov or Eberle... I'd rather see us target that D we need, even if we have to overpay. Rather than trade Yakupov for 2-3 more forwards to our forward group.

Also I'd take right now
Perron/Nuge/Eberle
Hall/Gordon/Yak
Gagner/Arco/Hemsky
Joensuu/Acton/Smyth
-Gazdic, Jones
over
Perron/Nuge/Eberle
Hall/Schenn/Gagner
Simmonds/Gordon/Hemsky
Joensuu/Arco/Acton
-Gazdic, Smyth
I would rather have:
Hall; RNH; Eberle
Perron; Schenn; Hemsky
Gagner; Gordon; Simmonds
Joensuu; Acton; Jones/Pitlick
Smyth

This line up is more balanced from the top line to the 4th line. It has plenty of skill, more size and grit. I think a deal with PHI for Schenn and Simmonds for Yak and Arco is a fair deal. Trade Gagner plus for Yandle and we are a lot better team.

rockinghockey is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 01:58 PM
  #106
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 10,090
vCash: 500
With the emergence of Jones and the development of Ekholm, there is some talk among Nashville fans that Josi could be moved if the return is right. I would strongly prefer to keep him, but I'm curious what he would fetch us.

Would you all move Eberle to get Josi? I know Hall and RNH are off the table, and I highly doubt we would want Yakupov for him (we have drafted a Russian in about a decade, and that's not an exaggeration).

Top 6 Spaling is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:02 PM
  #107
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 24,756
vCash: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
With the emergence of Jones and the development of Ekholm, there is some talk among Nashville fans that Josi could be moved if the return is right. I would strongly prefer to keep him, but I'm curious what he would fetch us.

Would you all move Eberle to get Josi? I know Hall and RNH are off the table, and I highly doubt we would want Yakupov for him (we have drafted a Russian in about a decade, and that's not an exaggeration).


Josi is the most overrated d-man in the league, not a chance am I moving a top player for a 18 minute a night d-man. Guy plays with weber and he is a god. Isn't with Weber so now he is expendable. If someone is willing to pay for him Poille should move him now.

He's a younger N.Schultz.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:07 PM
  #108
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
With the emergence of Jones and the development of Ekholm, there is some talk among Nashville fans that Josi could be moved if the return is right. I would strongly prefer to keep him, but I'm curious what he would fetch us.

Would you all move Eberle to get Josi? I know Hall and RNH are off the table, and I highly doubt we would want Yakupov for him (we have drafted a Russian in about a decade, and that's not an exaggeration).
Not Eberle for sure (8pt and a +10 in 6 game road trip).. But for Gagner it may be close in value.

Petro Points is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:12 PM
  #109
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 10,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post


Josi is the most overrated d-man in the league, not a chance am I moving a top player for a 18 minute a night d-man. Guy plays with weber and he is a god. Isn't with Weber so now he is expendable. If someone is willing to pay for him Poille should move him now.

He's a younger N.Schultz.
I can't express how much I disagree with you. Josi is a future top pairing Dman, and is a solid #2/3 guy right now. The reason he is expendable has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the fact that we now have Weber and Jones to play on our top pairing, with Klein and Ekholm looking great as a 2nd pairing. In a perfect world, we would keep them all, but we have a surplus at defense and a weakness at forward. So we should make a trade. Josi is "expendable" because he is not the face of the franchise (Weber) or cheaply on an ELC (Jones). Not cause he is a bad player.

He is one of my favorite players, and I fully believe he has #1D potential. Not sure if he will reach it, but he has that potential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Not Eberle for sure (8pt and a +10 in 6 game road trip).. But for Gagner it may be close in value.
Not a chance, we can do far better than Gagner. Rather just keep Josi.

I totally understand not wanting to deal Eberle for him, he's a great player, which is why I want him. Don't under-rate Josi though.

Top 6 Spaling is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:19 PM
  #110
Paralyzer
Tier 13428 Oiler Fan
 
Paralyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I can't express how much I disagree with you. Josi is a future top pairing Dman, and is a solid #2/3 guy right now. The reason he is expendable has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the fact that we now have Weber and Jones to play on our top pairing, with Klein and Ekholm looking great as a 2nd pairing. In a perfect world, we would keep them all, but we have a surplus at defense and a weakness at forward. So we should make a trade. Josi is "expendable" because he is not the face of the franchise (Weber) or cheaply on an ELC (Jones). Not cause he is a bad player.

He is one of my favorite players, and I fully believe he has #1D potential. Not sure if he will reach it, but he has that potential.



Not a chance, we can do far better than Gagner. Rather just keep Josi.

I totally understand not wanting to deal Eberle for him, he's a great player, which is why I want him. Don't under-rate Josi though.
That's just it, you said Josi is 'expendable'. Which to us means 'value lowered'. Not saying he isn't good, but you are trying to get Eberle, a top 10 RW in the NHL at this moment for a 2-3 top dman who is also playing behind Weber.

The only player we would even consider TALKING about Eberle in the same breath is Weber and we both know that's not going anywhere.

Paralyzer is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:22 PM
  #111
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 10,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
That's just it, you said Josi is 'expendable'. Which to us means 'value lowered'. Not saying he isn't good, but you are trying to get Eberle, a top 10 RW in the NHL at this moment for a 2-3 top dman who is also playing behind Weber.

The only player we would even consider TALKING about Eberle in the same breath is Weber and we both know that's not going anywhere.
I could be totally wrong here, but I thought I heard main board chatter that Eberle was falling in value and could be had. If that is wrong I apologize, just remember hearing it somewhere. Didn't know how good of a road trip he was having.

I am offering our 3rd most valuable Dman for your 3rd most valuable forward. Both are still great players, they just play on teams that have a strength at their position. I completely understand if you don't want to this deal, but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest.

Top 6 Spaling is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:38 PM
  #112
Moose Coleman
Registered User
 
Moose Coleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I could be totally wrong here, but I thought I heard main board chatter that Eberle was falling in value and could be had. If that is wrong I apologize, just remember hearing it somewhere. Didn't know how good of a road trip he was having.
Check back next time Eberle has a bad game, things will be different again.

Moose Coleman is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:39 PM
  #113
SupremeTeam16
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 481
vCash: 500
Josi is a good D-man but he benefitted alot from playing with Weber. He also has a concussion that he sustained over 3 weeks ago and hasn't been back on the ice since. That is a little concerning.

Oilers need a guy who is a #1 D-man on his own not a number #1 D-man who is a product of playing with a very strong partner. For a guy like that we would definitely look at packaging a guy like Eberle.

I think what made the Avs/Nords so successful in trading is that they didn't force deals they were patient and waited for the right situation where they could get a quality player for not a huge over payment. You look at the trades for Roy and Bourque they aquired top players for not much at all in the way of assets just because they waited for the right time. They also got really lucky with the Lindros trade.

I think the Oilers need to make some small moves and wait for the right time to pull the trigger on that #1 d-man they covet so much.

In the mean time, I think we need to bring in another solid bottom 6 forward and a goalie to challenge Dub.


For bottom 6 I'd really really like Mac-T to put a call in on Matthias in Florida. I think we could get him for something like Musil/Gernat and a 3rd and he would be a great bottom 6 guy who can play wing or centre and he can even be used in the top 6.

As for goalies, I think either of Svedberg from Boston, Mrazek from Detroit could be targets.

SupremeTeam16 is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:42 PM
  #114
Trafalgar Law
Waive Ryan Smyth
 
Trafalgar Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
With the emergence of Jones and the development of Ekholm, there is some talk among Nashville fans that Josi could be moved if the return is right. I would strongly prefer to keep him, but I'm curious what he would fetch us.

Would you all move Eberle to get Josi? I know Hall and RNH are off the table, and I highly doubt we would want Yakupov for him (we have drafted a Russian in about a decade, and that's not an exaggeration).
If you want Eberle, you give us Jones, it's as simple as that.

Trafalgar Law is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:45 PM
  #115
Moose Coleman
Registered User
 
Moose Coleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
If you want Eberle, you give us Jones, it's as simple as that.
Oh come now, no need to be that greedy. I'm sure we could settle for Weber.

Moose Coleman is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:49 PM
  #116
Paralyzer
Tier 13428 Oiler Fan
 
Paralyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I could be totally wrong here, but I thought I heard main board chatter that Eberle was falling in value and could be had. If that is wrong I apologize, just remember hearing it somewhere. Didn't know how good of a road trip he was having.

I am offering our 3rd most valuable Dman for your 3rd most valuable forward. Both are still great players, they just play on teams that have a strength at their position. I completely understand if you don't want to this deal, but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest.
A lot of Oiler fans (especially the ones who complain about every little detail) will always throw Eberle under the bus just because he isn't a 1st overall pick. IMO, Eberle is more complete and consistent forward out of the 3 1st overalls. I value Eberle more than Hall, Yaks and RNH. If there's one person to look for that game winning goal or at least set it up, it's Eberle.

Paralyzer is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 02:59 PM
  #117
AlowlyOilersfan
Comrade
 
AlowlyOilersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,052
vCash: 177
I'd say keep your depth and send Ekholm down to the AHL when Josi comes back.

:shrug:

Ekholm is still young for a defender.

AlowlyOilersfan is online now  
Old
10-24-2013, 03:02 PM
  #118
The Nuge
Farewell Smytty
 
The Nuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,455
vCash: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I could be totally wrong here, but I thought I heard main board chatter that Eberle was falling in value and could be had. If that is wrong I apologize, just remember hearing it somewhere. Didn't know how good of a road trip he was having.

I am offering our 3rd most valuable Dman for your 3rd most valuable forward. Both are still great players, they just play on teams that have a strength at their position. I completely understand if you don't want to this deal, but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest.
Any change in value you might have heard is probably from the same people claiming Hall's not worth as much because Gryba decided to cheap shot him and Hall got injured

__________________
"The Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it" - dnicks17
The Nuge is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 03:08 PM
  #119
s7ark
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,397
vCash: 500
I don't think you'll find much support for your Josi for Eberle idea, Top 6 Spaling. How the main boards view the value and availability of Oilers players and how HFOil does is quite different.

s7ark is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 03:11 PM
  #120
Paralyzer
Tier 13428 Oiler Fan
 
Paralyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I don't think you'll find much support for your Josi for Eberle idea, Top 6 Spaling. How the main boards view the value and availability of Oilers players and how HFOil does is quite different.
Pretty much agree. The Main Board people are different from us HFOil people. We HFOil people tend to stay in the sewers, we don't come out much and we keep to ourselves while the Main Boarders love to leech off of people and suck every living soul out of your body and mind. Just my 2 cents.

Paralyzer is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 03:59 PM
  #121
gqmixmaster
Registered User
 
gqmixmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,175
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
A lot of Oiler fans (especially the ones who complain about every little detail) will always throw Eberle under the bus just because he isn't a 1st overall pick. IMO, Eberle is more complete and consistent forward out of the 3 1st overalls. I value Eberle more than Hall, Yaks and RNH. If there's one person to look for that game winning goal or at least set it up, it's Eberle.
I have Eberle as being superior ATM but I think him and RNH are going to be about equal on our top line.

I think Hall is going to be an decent pwf on the 2nd line something like Erik Cole was with Yak being and 2nd liner on a non playoff team - think Samsonov.

gqmixmaster is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 04:11 PM
  #122
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 10,090
vCash: 500
Ok, thanks for the feedback. Not seeing a deal that works.

Top 6 Spaling is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 04:15 PM
  #123
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 885
Alright.. rank the following F+D duos in terms of Oilers needs:

TOR: Gardiner + Kulemin
OTT: Cowen + Z.Smith
FLA: Kulikov + Matthias
PHI: Coburn + Simmonds
OTT: Myers + Ott
NYR: Girardi + Kreider

Petro Points is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 04:17 PM
  #124
enthropi
Hiss Hiss (TKA) Hiss
 
enthropi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Beijing, China
Posts: 3,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Ok, thanks for the feedback. Not seeing a deal that works.
Not sure how you expected to land a top-20 scorer for a currently concussed dman...

enthropi is offline  
Old
10-24-2013, 04:20 PM
  #125
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
Not sure how you expected to land a top-20 scorer for a currently concussed dman...
its ok.. let it go..We are classier than this... Last year it wouldve been "Josi>Ebs AINEC"
Ive made plenty of Weber to EDM for Gagner++ to know how homer a fan can sound.

Petro Points is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.