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Old
10-24-2013, 09:09 PM
  #76
CHGoalie27
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Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
That has nothing to do with my post at all.
My point was Messier did plenty for the game of hockey in New York to which all fans, Rangers, Islanders, and Devils, should be greatful with the Armoury Rink project.
Sry I thought my sarcasm was obvious, I really didn't mean to sound against you in that post! LMAO

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10-24-2013, 09:16 PM
  #77
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Sry y'all, whether we agree on the subject or not (nobody can be proven correct obviously anyway until he gets a chance)

I'm done for the night, just impatiently mad as hell as everyone else is...

I just want change.

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10-24-2013, 09:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
...and Scott Arniel was an oh so excellent choice as well.

I would also like to know just what in the hell are they doing ****ing Brassard the way they are??? Talk about wasting a weapon.
Arniel was the worst possible idea for an assistant. Team needed better foresight.

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10-24-2013, 10:50 PM
  #79
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rangers stink and no coach can win with the present team need players back bad .
that being said I love mess no matter what he is a winner oilers and rangers and gretsky have won nothing without him.
there is no way this guy cant coach would he be great don't know but the rangers should have had him coaching in the ahl , you cant be around hockey for 40 some years and not know the game who knows just please let me enjoy a game or two.

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10-25-2013, 01:12 AM
  #80
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Didn't Tippett inherit practically the same Yotes roster as Gretzky and the team did substantially better?

Also...Arniel? We're gonna ***** about the PP coach when the one of the only things that looks good most nights is the PP?

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10-25-2013, 01:22 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
Didn't Tippett inherit practically the same Yotes roster as Gretzky and the team did substantially better?

Also...Arniel? We're gonna ***** about the PP coach when the one of the only things that looks good most nights is the PP?
Are you familiar with Arniel's history with Brassard, and the other former Blue Jackets? There was no reason to put that elephant in room to accommodate an assistant.

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10-25-2013, 01:29 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Savant View Post
Are you familiar with Arniel's history with Brassard, and the other former Blue Jackets? There was no reason to put that elephant in room to accommodate an assistant.
Yes I am. You think it's relevant to how the team and Brassard have been playing? I'm beyond skeptical

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10-25-2013, 01:33 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
Yes I am. You think it's relevant to how the team and Brassard have been playing? I'm beyond skeptical
Have you seen Brassard this season? Neither have I. I certainly think where there is smoke there is fire.

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10-25-2013, 01:38 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Savant View Post
Have you seen Brassard this season? Neither have I. I certainly think where there is smoke there is fire.
I have seen him, then I haven't seen him, then I've seen him again. Columbus fans warned us about his consistency issues. We saw it last year in his beginning stint with us. People are just looking for excuses to make this about the coaching staff and why Coach Messier with Associate Coaches Leetch and Graves under GM Gretzky would've been the better choices

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10-25-2013, 01:56 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
I have seen him, then I haven't seen him, then I've seen him again. Columbus fans warned us about his consistency issues. We saw it last year in his beginning stint with us. People are just looking for excuses to make this about the coaching staff and why Coach Messier with Associate Coaches Leetch and Graves under GM Gretzky would've been the better choices
Even when Brassard wasn't hitting on all cylinders last season he played loose and creative, this season he is flat and looks scared to make a mistake.

I thought they needed to keep Torts because of the Gaborik trade. I thought they either needed to fire Torts midseason and hire a coach to get the best out of Gaborik and Nash, or give Torts another year with the personnel he traded Gaborik to get. What happened was a stupid half measure. I think AV is a terrible fit for this team, for the New York market, and for the locker room. This doesn't mean he is a bad coach, but its really the perfect storm of a bad situation.

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10-25-2013, 02:55 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Sure, if you want to consider how into the game he really was at that transitional "midlife crisis" stage in his life...

I'd sooner consider the Mess we saw up until he was deflated by taking a backseat to a retiring Gretzky.

Still waiting for a legitimate argument against Messier....
So what you're telling me is the great player/coach was just taking a paycheck when he returned from Vancouver?

I have no beef against Messier the player other than the fact I think he hung around too long, but he'll go down in history for helping bring the Cup to NYC.

When he builds a coaching resume that consists of more than 6 games in a junior tournament I'll be happy to have him as a coach.

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10-25-2013, 03:03 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
He was a leader, which is what we need the most. NOTHING anyone has said tells anything about why he shouldn't be given a shot. Nothing.

Again, here's the argument against Messier...."Some other great players didn't work out"

You forgot Trottier btw.

But we'd rather this guy we currently see doing nothing positive here?

Un****ingbelieveable.
It's not that SOME great players did not work out.

It's that 99% of the great players that tried to coach fail miserably.

the reverse carries more weight.

ONLY ONE GREAT PLAYER MADE FOR A GREAT HEAD COACH - Jacques Lemaire

Think about that. There's a reason for it. You just choose to ignore it because it's Messier we are talking about.

stop ignoring FACTS.

and for the record, what we are seeing with thsi team right now is NOT systemic. Effort is not systemic and you really overrate Messier's leadership if you think that he can get these guys to do somethign on the ice by instructing them to do it.

What made Messier a great leader is that he went out there and did what he preached. coaxing someone to do something is vastly different then doing it yourself.

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10-25-2013, 03:20 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Savant View Post
Arniel was the worst possible idea for an assistant. Team needed better foresight.
Terrible move bringing this loser behind the bench. "Lets trade for a player with consitency issues and then bring in the coach that he fought with and struggled under in the past...

Then ask where is when we recreate the same toxic atmosphere that the player struggled in....

I'm so sick of this @ss backwards franchise

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10-25-2013, 10:46 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
So what you're telling me is the great player/coach was just taking a paycheck when he returned from Vancouver?

I have no beef against Messier the player other than the fact I think he hung around too long, but he'll go down in history for helping bring the Cup to NYC.

When he builds a coaching resume that consists of more than 6 games in a junior tournament I'll be happy to have him as a coach.
First sentence, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Doesn't mean he's on to a different stage in his life-which he is a decade later. Are you the same person you were 10 years ago?

Last sentence, fair enough in terms of you being happy with it, but still says nothing of why he DEFINITELY won't work.

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10-25-2013, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
It's not that SOME great players did not work out.

It's that 99% of the great players that tried to coach fail miserably.

the reverse carries more weight.

ONLY ONE GREAT PLAYER MADE FOR A GREAT HEAD COACH - Jacques Lemaire

Think about that. There's a reason for it. You just choose to ignore it because it's Messier we are talking about.

stop ignoring FACTS.
I have to respond to this carefully, because I you aren't totally wrong on what you present.
None of that says Messier wouldn't work out. How about Blake? Robinson?
Roy ain't lookin bad...
I can ignore facts if they have no true bearing for/against the argument. It's silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
and for the record, what we are seeing with thsi team right now is NOT systemic. Effort is not systemic and you really overrate Messier's leadership if you think that he can get these guys to do somethign on the ice by instructing them to do it.

What made Messier a great leader is that he went out there and did what he preached. coaxing someone to do something is vastly different then doing it yourself.


I no longer have anything to say to you, nor should you say anything further on this subject ever again to me or anyone else, if you think MARK MESSIER could NOT solve the effort problem before any other...

Correction, what made Messier a great leader is HE GOT THOSE HE WAS LEADING TO DO WHAT HE PREACHED. What about your "facts"?


Last edited by CHGoalie27: 10-28-2013 at 10:55 AM.
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10-26-2013, 07:37 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
I no longer have anything to say to you, nor should you say anything further on this subject ever again to me or anyone else, if you think MARK MESSIER could NOT solve the effort problem before any other...

Correction, what made Messier a great leader is HE GOT THOSE HE WAS LEADING TO DO WHAT HE PREACHED. What about your "facts"?
The 7 year stretch from 1997 to 2004 says differently. Once Messier was unable to lead with his own play, his teams didn't make the playoffs once.

Everything we can say about Messier as a coach is pure speculation and guessing, but his track record for leadership via his voice and motivation the last 7 years (on two different teams) was quite dismal to say the least.

While I firmly believe you need the horses to win, those 7 teams were far from dripping with effort. How many "closed door Messier meetings" did those teams have while consistently showing the poorest efforts of any teams I've witnessed.


Last edited by frozenrubber: 10-26-2013 at 07:58 AM.
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10-26-2013, 08:45 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
The 7 year stretch from 1997 to 2004 says differently. Once Messier was unable to lead with his own play, his teams didn't make the playoffs once.

Everything we can say about Messier as a coach is pure speculation and guessing, but his track record for leadership via his voice and motivation the last 7 years (on two different teams) was quite dismal to say the least.

While I firmly believe you need the horses to win, those 7 teams were far from dripping with effort. How many "closed door Messier meetings" did those teams have while consistently showing the poorest efforts of any teams I've witnessed.
Again, I'm well aware of his not-so-proud years. I'll judge the guy who's mind was in the right place, as it is(or appears to be) now.

To bring a fair analogy, how many millions of people spent their first 18 years doing the right thing, left HS to drink, smoke, and party, then grew up a few years later to go back to doing the right thing....

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10-28-2013, 10:56 AM
  #93
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I guess we'll see if home ice makes a difference...hopefully so.

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10-28-2013, 02:36 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
First sentence, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Doesn't mean he's on to a different stage in his life-which he is a decade later. Are you the same person you were 10 years ago?

Last sentence, fair enough in terms of you being happy with it, but still says nothing of why he DEFINITELY won't work.
We'll agree to disagree on the first point, but honsetly if you believe he was just taking a paycheck his last few seasons with the team then he's no different than the long line of guys who signed here for a retirement check...thanks but no thanks that's not character to me...and character has no age limit.

Never said he definitely wont work, I would rather have someone with experience, let him be like Roy, Hunter or the Sutters, go buy a junior team, coach or GM it and get some experience and some success and you'll be welcomed with open arms.

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