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Old
10-23-2013, 09:12 PM
  #301
hockey diva
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Gabriel had knee surgery I believe.

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10-23-2013, 09:51 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Hendricks is a 4th liner ... period. He's out there to take limited draws, block shots, throw a few hits, maybe drop the gloves. Forsberg is there to score. Sitting Hendricks or Forsberg are independent issues.
I know this may be inaccurate and is purely based on my perception, but he appears to be taking half of the draws thanks to playing with Gaustad.

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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
What has Forsberg done at ES to warrant him not sitting a game? He's 0g, 0a, on the ice for 0 ES goals but 6 ES goals against. Hopefully he got the message and comes back ready to address the issues in his game.

Putting Stalberg on the 4th line again should be more of a point of contention last night than the rookie sitting for a game. Stalberg with a fellow winger with talent (not Hendricks) give the team the same opportunity for scoring by committee. Stalberg not getting much ES time with quality line mates, Wilson and Bourque not scoring at ES, Forsberg not scoring or even on the ice when the team scores at ES all hurt right now.
You ask what has Forsberg done? Well what has Hendricks done to warrant any playing time? The answer is nothing.

While it may have been on the PP, Forsberg has scored a goal and has 2 assists. He also has moments nightly that show his amazing potential. His ability to hang on to the puck when everyone of the other forwards on this team lose it to a turnover. His ability to out maneuver other players when only Smith so far this season has shown this potential. His downsides are 1) he is fragile and needs to bulk up and 2) He's not as defensively minded as others yet. But thats the problem with this team. They all play defense first then worry about the scorers. I know Trotz likes his defensive system, and that's fine, but what's wrong with letting 1 or 2 guys of the 12 forwards free to try to score first, then play defense?

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10-23-2013, 10:59 PM
  #303
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It suddenly dawned on me what's happening with Forsberg: Trotz is treating him exactly the same way he treated Erat when he first came up.

If FF struggles some more, watch out, Milwaukee.

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10-23-2013, 11:56 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by jwhouk View Post
It suddenly dawned on me what's happening with Forsberg: Trotz is treating him exactly the same way he treated Erat when he first came up.

If FF struggles some more, watch out, Milwaukee.
I want to see a larger sample size, but am of the opinion that time in Milwaukee may be more beneficial to his development for part of this year. I'm not certain he's physically ready for a full NHL season.

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10-24-2013, 01:23 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I think the thing that is being lost about Wilson and Bourque is they're coming off of injuries. Wilson had both shoulders done if I'm not mistaken and he may be feeling his way back. Forgot what was up with Bourque but he seems to be getting back in to form as well the last few games.

Sure, Forsberg should have sat, I get that but why doesn't the vet sit too? We can throw stats around all day long but a vet will not sit with Trotz but kids will.
JP Dumont?

The reason Hendricks will not sit anytime soon is because we just spent a ridiculous 8 million on him. Sitting him now would mean Poile would have to waddle away with his tail tucked between his legs-- and not just for one year-- for the next 4.

Forseberg is raw. Time in Milwaukee would not be a bad idea.

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10-24-2013, 07:30 AM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
I know this may be inaccurate and is purely based on my perception, but he appears to be taking half of the draws thanks to playing with Gaustad.



You ask what has Forsberg done? Well what has Hendricks done to warrant any playing time? The answer is nothing.

While it may have been on the PP, Forsberg has scored a goal and has 2 assists. He also has moments nightly that show his amazing potential. His ability to hang on to the puck when everyone of the other forwards on this team lose it to a turnover. His ability to out maneuver other players when only Smith so far this season has shown this potential. His downsides are 1) he is fragile and needs to bulk up and 2) He's not as defensively minded as others yet. But thats the problem with this team. They all play defense first then worry about the scorers. I know Trotz likes his defensive system, and that's fine, but what's wrong with letting 1 or 2 guys of the 12 forwards free to try to score first, then play defense?
Hendricks has a whopping total of six faceoffs this season ... won 3, lost 3. Gaustad has 198, Legwand 138, Cullen 116, Fisher 99. He's second among team forwards in hits (3rd overall, one behind Shea) and second among team forwards in blocked shots ... both things that we look for from the 4th line in Nashville. He has no points and was on the ice for three ES goals allowed (Forsberg has no ES points, on ice for six ES goals allowed with his only goal a 5on3 PP goal).

That isn't to say that a 4th line of Clune/Gaustad/Spaling wouldn't provide at least as good defense with more potential offensive upside with Clune's net presence (when not in the box for a fighting major) and Spaling taking a few shots. That also puts Stalberg on a line with a more talented wing on the opposite side (Nystrom is an upgrade over Hendricks) along with more offensive minded center ... a better position to get the biggest FA signing going offensively.

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10-24-2013, 02:08 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Hendricks is a 4th liner ... period. He's out there to take limited draws, block shots, throw a few hits, maybe drop the gloves. Forsberg is there to score. Sitting Hendricks or Forsberg are independent issues.
They WOULD be independent issues if it wasn't FF vs Clune/Hendricks for the last active roster spot. Since that IS the battle, it is VERY relevant.

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10-24-2013, 03:03 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
I want to see a larger sample size, but am of the opinion that time in Milwaukee may be more beneficial to his development for part of this year. I'm not certain he's physically ready for a full NHL season.
I agree with this 100%. The kid is going to be a tyop 6 forward in this league but right now he needs to learn the NA game and add some mass to that frame. If you watch the rookies playing right now that are ready to really be in the NHL you will see the difference between them and Forsberg. He simply isn't ready yet imo.

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10-24-2013, 03:07 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
They WOULD be independent issues if it wasn't FF vs Clune/Hendricks for the last active roster spot. Since that IS the battle, it is VERY relevant.
disagree

actually its probably FF vs Spaling, with everyone healthy.


Spaling played in place of Fisher, but if Fisher is in there, its either sit FF or sit Spaling, plus one of Clune/Hendricks

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10-24-2013, 03:33 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
disagree

actually its probably FF vs Spaling, with everyone healthy.


Spaling played in place of Fisher, but if Fisher is in there, its either sit FF or sit Spaling, plus one of Clune/Hendricks
It's closer to two out of Hendricks v Clune v Spaling

and then

FF v top 6 wingers (Hornqvist, Wilson, Smith, Stalberg) and Bourque.

FF's spot was more assured to begin the season as we were down on Smith and Stalberg was injured. With Smith having stepped his game up and Stalberg now needing to get some increased TOI and linemates, FF is the man on the outside of the top 6. I could see him splitting time with Bourque as well, considering the latter's poor start.

This changes a little if you push Nystrom or Bourque down to the 4th line, as they then compete with Hendricks, Clune, and Spaling, opening up a spot on the 3rd line for Spaling or FF, but it's hard to justify demoting Nystrom, IMO. Placing FF on the 4th line would be a poor fit, and unlikely to do much for his development.

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10-25-2013, 08:01 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
disagree

actually its probably FF vs Spaling, with everyone healthy.


Spaling played in place of Fisher, but if Fisher is in there, its either sit FF or sit Spaling, plus one of Clune/Hendricks
and Still... the fact that Spaling is out there in place of Stalberg and FF is insane.

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10-25-2013, 09:27 AM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
and Still... the fact that Spaling is out there in place of Stalberg and FF is insane.
Agreed.q

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10-25-2013, 09:46 AM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
and Still... the fact that Spaling is out there in place of Stalberg and FF is insane.
I agreed with sitting Forsberg the other night, as well as protecting his minutes when he doesn't make the basic defensive zone plays. Sitting Stalberg is dumb. I get Trotz is trying to motivate him, but last night was not the night to do it. Although it is hard to argue with 2 points. I expect him in on Saturday.

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10-25-2013, 09:49 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I agreed with sitting Forsberg the other night, as well as protecting his minutes when he doesn't make the basic defensive zone plays. Sitting Stalberg is dumb. I get Trotz is trying to motivate him, but last night was not the night to do it. Although it is hard to argue with 2 points. I expect him in on Saturday.
Back on the 4th line with Hendricks, instead of sitting Hendricks. Trotz doesn't seem to know that you have to place players with a those who will help them succeed.

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10-25-2013, 10:11 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Back on the 4th line with Hendricks, instead of sitting Hendricks. Trotz doesn't seem to know that you have to place players with a those who will help them succeed.
I know if I were a hockey player with Stalbergs skill set I would find it hard to be motivated to play with Goose and Hendricks. Really need to put him with either Cullen and Smith or Legwand and Nystrom. Can you imagine the speed of a Stalberg/Cullen/Smith line. D-men would be playing at their hash marks. Bourque has played well in the past with Legwand so I'm not sure why they havn't tried that again.

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10-25-2013, 10:35 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I agreed with sitting Forsberg the other night, as well as protecting his minutes when he doesn't make the basic defensive zone plays. Sitting Stalberg is dumb. I get Trotz is trying to motivate him, but last night was not the night to do it. Although it is hard to argue with 2 points. I expect him in on Saturday.
Trotz played Spaling last night because it was Fisher's first game back and he wasn't sure how much he'd be able to play. He wanted to make sure he had a PK guy and center if Fish had to cut his minutes. Hendricks role is to be 4th line and PK. FF and Stalberg don't fill that role. When Fisher was out Hendricks wasn't getting scratched because of the PK. When healthy if there is a choice it is between Hendricks and Spaling not Hendricks and FF or Stalberg.

The reason Stalberg has been on the 4th line is because of how well Bourque, Smith, and Nystrom have played. Bourque and Smith have taken his winger spot in the top 6. No way is Trotz splitting up our best line. If Stalberg gets a top 6 chance Wilson would have to be the guy he'd replace. Otherwise he's playing 3rd of 4th line. I expect Stalberg to play Saturday where I have no idea.

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10-25-2013, 10:47 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by INDhockeyfan View Post
Trotz played Spaling last night because it was Fisher's first game back and he wasn't sure how much he'd be able to play. He wanted to make sure he had a PK guy and center if Fish had to cut his minutes. Hendricks role is to be 4th line and PK. FF and Stalberg don't fill that role. When Fisher was out Hendricks wasn't getting scratched because of the PK. When healthy if there is a choice it is between Hendricks and Spaling not Hendricks and FF or Stalberg.

The reason Stalberg has been on the 4th line is because of how well Bourque, Smith, and Nystrom have played. Bourque and Smith have taken his winger spot in the top 6. No way is Trotz splitting up our best line. If Stalberg gets a top 6 chance Wilson would have to be the guy he'd replace. Otherwise he's playing 3rd of 4th line. I expect Stalberg to play Saturday where I have no idea.
PK centers last night

Gaustad, Hendricks, Legwand

Why would you need to dress Spaling as a pk center only? I don't buy that theory.

Trotz was being Trotz. He wants offensive players to perform without turning it over, depending on other players or needing quality time.

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10-25-2013, 10:47 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by INDhockeyfan View Post
Trotz played Spaling last night because it was Fisher's first game back and he wasn't sure how much he'd be able to play. He wanted to make sure he had a PK guy and center if Fish had to cut his minutes. Hendricks role is to be 4th line and PK. FF and Stalberg don't fill that role. When Fisher was out Hendricks wasn't getting scratched because of the PK. When healthy if there is a choice it is between Hendricks and Spaling not Hendricks and FF or Stalberg.

The reason Stalberg has been on the 4th line is because of how well Bourque, Smith, and Nystrom have played. Bourque and Smith have taken his winger spot in the top 6. No way is Trotz splitting up our best line. If Stalberg gets a top 6 chance Wilson would have to be the guy he'd replace. Otherwise he's playing 3rd of 4th line. I expect Stalberg to play Saturday where I have no idea.
Yeah, I think this is a good assessment of the situation. Stalberg and FF both in the top 6 right now means displacing Wilson and Bourque from those spots. Otherwise, there's room for one of them on the 3rd line, as Nystrom has done nothing to warrant being bumped from his spot. I don't see FF or Stalberg producing any more in 4th line minutes with Gaustad and Spaling/Clune than they would with Gaustad and Hendricks.

I suppose Trotz could force both into the top 6, drop Wilson and Bourque down to the 3rd and Nystrom down to the 4th, but that would pretty heavily disrupt any of the chemistry and cohesiveness our players have built up to this point.

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10-25-2013, 10:50 AM
  #319
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Again, here's what I would do.

Bouque-Cullen-Smith
Wilson-Fisher-Hornqvist
Forsberg-Legwand-Stalberg
Hendricks-Gaustad-Nystrom

IMHO that's our best line-up right now.

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10-25-2013, 10:53 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by INDhockeyfan View Post
Trotz played Spaling last night because it was Fisher's first game back and he wasn't sure how much he'd be able to play. He wanted to make sure he had a PK guy and center if Fish had to cut his minutes. Hendricks role is to be 4th line and PK. FF and Stalberg don't fill that role. When Fisher was out Hendricks wasn't getting scratched because of the PK. When healthy if there is a choice it is between Hendricks and Spaling not Hendricks and FF or Stalberg.

The reason Stalberg has been on the 4th line is because of how well Bourque, Smith, and Nystrom have played. Bourque and Smith have taken his winger spot in the top 6. No way is Trotz splitting up our best line. If Stalberg gets a top 6 chance Wilson would have to be the guy he'd replace. Otherwise he's playing 3rd of 4th line. I expect Stalberg to play Saturday where I have no idea.
I get that, but Legwand-Cullen-Gaustad-Hendricks is plenty of pk center depth. No argument Trotz can make can change that in my mind. I play Stalberg, and if something happens with Fisher, you bump Goose to center the Legwand Unit and Legwand to Fishers Unit. It all worked out last night but going forward it is hard to say where to put him. Personally I think he needs to go on the Legwand unit, maybe the Fisher one with Wilson playing with Legwand and Forsberg.

And outside of Speed, Stalberg has shown no skillset.

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10-25-2013, 10:54 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
PK centers last night

Gaustad, Hendricks, Legwand

Why would you need to dress Spaling as a pk center only? I don't buy that theory.

Trotz was being Trotz. He wants offensive players to perform without turning it over, depending on other players or needing quality time.
Or it could be that he's comfortable with the play and chemistry of 5 of his top 6 wingers and wants Stalberg and FF to earn their play time rather than have it handed to them. Neither have produced much of anything at ES, albeit Stalberg with far less of an opportunity to due to his injury. Regardless, I don't believe FF or Stalberg have deserved to displace Smith, Hornqvist, Bourque, Wilson or Nystrom to this point. Until something changes, one of them is likely to sit, and the other will get that remaining top 9 spot.

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10-25-2013, 10:59 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
PK centers last night

Gaustad, Hendricks, Legwand

Why would you need to dress Spaling as a pk center only? I don't buy that theory.

Trotz was being Trotz. He wants offensive players to perform without turning it over, depending on other players or needing quality time.
Spaling played 2:11 SH last night. Legwand hasn't played the PK all season. Fisher played the PK last night with Spaling, Hendricks, Gaustad and Nystrom. It wasn't a theory either. Trotz said it himself in the press conference last night of why he played Spaling because it was Fish's 1st night back.

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10-25-2013, 11:01 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Or it could be that he's comfortable with the play and chemistry of 5 of his top 6 wingers and wants Stalberg and FF to earn their play time rather than have it handed to them. Neither have produced much of anything at ES, albeit Stalberg with far less of an opportunity to due to his injury. Regardless, I don't believe FF or Stalberg have deserved to displace Smith, Hornqvist, Bourque, Wilson or Nystrom to this point. Until something changes, one of them is likely to sit, and the other will get that remaining top 9 spot.
Then you continue to struggle to score.

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10-25-2013, 11:01 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Again, here's what I would do.

Bouque-Cullen-Smith
Wilson-Fisher-Hornqvist
Forsberg-Legwand-Stalberg
Hendricks-Gaustad-Nystrom

IMHO that's our best line-up right now.
It's a more offensive line-up. I would dispute it being the best, especially considering Nystrom's play on the third line with Legwand thus far.

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10-25-2013, 11:02 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I agreed with sitting Forsberg the other night, as well as protecting his minutes when he doesn't make the basic defensive zone plays. Sitting Stalberg is dumb. I get Trotz is trying to motivate him, but last night was not the night to do it. Although it is hard to argue with 2 points. I expect him in on Saturday.
do you really think Stalberg was benched for motivation? I was guessing his shoulder was bothering him or some other minor ding-up

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