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Brett Hull vs. Mike Modano

View Poll Results: Who Do You Rank Higher All-Time?
Brett Hull 41 83.67%
Mike Modano 8 16.33%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-25-2013, 10:08 AM
  #26
Dissonance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Okey then, Hull was a great scorer. Not as great as some like to think simply becouse Adam Oates was a better playmaker than Hull was a scorer, but he did had a Steven Stamkos quality to him.
Not criticizing you, but I've always thought this view was a little unfair. Hull obviously benefited from playing with Oates, and probably wouldn't have scored 86 without him, but he was a phenomenal goal-scorer even without Oates.

Just to dredge up some stats matnor compiled awhile back:

--In 1989-90, the year Hull scored 72 goals, he was largely playing on a line with Peter Zezel and Sergio Momesso when the Blues were at even strength. All told, Zezel assisted on nearly as many of Hull's goals as Oates did (21 to 23).

--In 1990-91, Oates missed 19 games. Hull scored 18 goals over that stretch. That's a slightly lower pace than he scored with Oates, but that's still ridiculous.

--In 1991-92, Hull scored 16 goals in the 19 games after Oates was traded.

--And then an Oates-less Hull nearly kept pace with a prime Pavel Bure in the 1993-94 season.

Take away Oates and maybe Hull has three 60 goal seasons instead of three 70 goal seasons. He's still--very easily--one of the best goal-scorers of all-time.

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Old
10-25-2013, 10:11 AM
  #27
Darth Yoda
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Yeah Hull was compiling at a rate that for example Gartner and Andreychuk could only dream of, and he was VERY clutch not the least often in the Canada Cups.

As a matter of fact, and i have no thought about it right now becouse i've had a drink or two: Was Hull better than Mike Bossy, or at least as good? Have we had a poll and nice discussion about that?

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Old
10-25-2013, 10:16 AM
  #28
michall
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Yeah, forgot about them intangibles so voted for Brett Hull

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10-25-2013, 03:32 PM
  #29
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
While that may be somewhat true (I'd say the addition of Belfour the season prior was bigger), if you were to take Modano away they'd be less of a team than they would have been without Hull. Hull was a final piece, but that doesn't mean he was the biggest.

No trying to take anything away from him, I love the guy.
Fair points

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Originally Posted by the edler View Post
Modano was Toews before Toews. No crazy amounts of points but he'll give you them intangibles.
But not at this age. Toews at the same age is clearly better than Modano ever was. Toews had an all around game from day one, already won two Cups, captained to Cup wins, won a Conn Smythe and a Selke and and Olympic MVP. Modano at the same age was not near him.

While Toews is obviously behind Crosby, the truth is there isn't another center in the NHL where you could say without hesitation that is better than Toews (of course Malkin makes a case here). Modano was never close to that at Toews' age.

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Old
10-25-2013, 03:53 PM
  #30
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Brett Hull. And I like Modano a lot.

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Old
10-25-2013, 05:13 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
But not at this age. Toews at the same age is clearly better than Modano ever was. Toews had an all around game from day one, already won two Cups, captained to Cup wins, won a Conn Smythe and a Selke and and Olympic MVP. Modano at the same age was not near him.
Yeah, perhaps. I've liked Toews ever since he scored that fancy goal on Colorado in his rookie season, but some of those things you listed there, like the cup wins, are team related and Chicago and Canada have had some pretty good teams to work with. Modano was pretty good early on too, I think he was a Calder Trophy runner up at 19 to 31 year old Makarov, then he had a 20 points playoff at 20, scored 50 goals at 23, and it was not even in the 9293 season when everyone scored 50. But I agree, Toews is definitely better defensively early on, but he hasn't shown to be world beater offensively.

"This is the kind of talent that can bring a franchise back from dead."


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Old
10-25-2013, 05:17 PM
  #32
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Brett Hull. For me it wasn't really close. When I think of pure goal scoring over the last thirty years, he's a name that always comes up first or second.

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Old
10-25-2013, 05:22 PM
  #33
tjcurrie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Fair points



But not at this age. Toews at the same age is clearly better than Modano ever was. Toews had an all around game from day one, already won two Cups, captained to Cup wins, won a Conn Smythe and a Selke and and Olympic MVP. Modano at the same age was not near him.

While Toews is obviously behind Crosby, the truth is there isn't another center in the NHL where you could say without hesitation that is better than Toews (of course Malkin makes a case here). Modano was never close to that at Toews' age.
Toews has the intangibles early - whereas Modano learned them by about his 7th season. No doubt Toews is more of a "complete" player in his early 20s than Modano was in his, but I'll wait to see the rest of Toews' career (or at least in to his late 20s/early 30s) before I put a stamp on things. If Toews remains as is, that level of play isn't better than Modano's level of play when he was in his prime. So to me, Toews still has a way to go regardless of his team successes.


Last edited by tjcurrie: 10-25-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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Old
10-25-2013, 06:22 PM
  #34
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
Toews has the intangibles early - whereas Modano learned them by about his 7th season. No doubt Toews is more of a "complete" player in his early 20s than Modano was, but I'll wait to see the rest of Toews' career (or at least in to his late 20s/early 30s) before I put a stamp on things. If Toews remains as is, that level of play isn't better than Modano's level of play when he was in his prime. So to me, Toews still has a way to go regardless of his team successes.
Oh sure, longevity and consistency go to Modano here. We'll wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the edler View Post
Yeah, perhaps. I've liked Toews ever since he scored that fancy goal on Colorado in his rookie season, but some of those things you listed there, like the cup wins, are team related and Chicago and Canada have had some pretty good teams to work with. Modano was pretty good early on too, I think he was a Calder Trophy runner up at 19 to 31 year old Makarov, then he had a 20 points playoff at 20, scored 50 goals at 23, and it was not even in the 9293 season when everyone scored 50. But I agree, Toews is definitely better defensively early on, but he hasn't shown to be world beater offensively.

"This is the kind of talent that can bring a franchise back from dead."

I think though when you have the kind of contribution that Toews did for all of those wins (the two Cups and the Olympics) it goes beyond just team success. Brent Seabrook was on all of those teams too, but had far less of an impact than Toews did (nothing against Seabrook's contributions of course). So when a player is directly involved in why the team won, then I always tend to value him higher.

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