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End of fighting in the NHL?

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Old
10-13-2013, 05:16 PM
  #326
canucksfan
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There was a lot of discussion in this thread about checks being worse than fights. New research suggests that punches are worse than checks. I thought the fall to the ice would be the worse. Still lots of studies would have to be done to prove this but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/sp...fer.html?_r=1&

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One example of the latest findings comes from the University of Ottawa, where researchers simulated the hits that commonly caused concussions in hockey players — a head-on check to the head; a fall to the ice; and a left or right hook to the jaw as thrown in a hockey fight — and measured the forces they delivered to a helmet rigged with sensors.

They found that the left or right hooks were by far the most likely to cause concussions, because of the sharp rotational forces they deliver to the brain.
And there was a player who had a seizure after a fight.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrh...050131184.html

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If eliminating fighting in junior isn't at the very top of USA Hockey and Hockey Canada's agendas, then it's about to be after a scary scene in a United States Hockey League game on Saturday night.

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10-13-2013, 05:17 PM
  #327
leeaf83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Kaleta has been injured on like eight separate occasions by hits far dirtier than anything he's dished out. I really wish people would stop bringing him up in the same sentence as Cooke.
Come on, I'm not sure if you're a Sabre fan or what but Kaleta is a rat and a one man argument against abolishing fighting. Yes Cooke is a dirtier player but he's far more willing to drop the gloves and runs his mouth far less.

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10-21-2013, 11:20 AM
  #328
Tyler Biggs*
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Get rid of the Instigator rule. These fake tough guys will think twice if Patrick Bordeleau or Colton Orr is ready to knock them into next week.

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10-24-2013, 07:49 AM
  #329
Nac Mac Feegle
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Ok, I haven't read through this entire thread, and this is probably a really stupid idea, but what about this:

1 - Have a rule (like the CHL one) where the chinstrap has to be securely fastened at all time (no tilting the helmet back kind of thing). No point of wearing a helmet if it goes flying every time you're bodychecked.

2 - If you're going to fight, keep your gloves on. (But drop the stick, of course.)

Wouldn't that be pretty decent, to reduce head injuries, and have the added bonus of reducing hand injuries as well? Just make sure glove manufacturers aren't allowed to do what they did with shoulder pads and put hardened plastic on the outside...keep the outside a bit spongy.

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10-24-2013, 08:19 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
2 - If you're going to fight, keep your gloves on. (But drop the stick, of course.)
That might actually make it worse. Although the nature of fighting on skates might mean that it doesn't make that much of a difference, you can actually punch harder with gloves on then with your bare hands.

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10-24-2013, 12:58 PM
  #331
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Everybody cries about the staged fight thing. But it's pretty clear that these are a direct result of the attempt to curb fighting with the instigator rule. So, obviously, get rid of that rule. One could also argue that the advent of the pure enforcer came with the elimination of bench clearing brawls.

A couple of examples of blowback for typical liberal do-goodery. The second and third order effects of using rules to cramp down on minor problems just creates even bigger ones.

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10-25-2013, 08:34 PM
  #332
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One of the big deterants is the visor. They say "from now on, guys coming from Junior have to keep their visor" and then when a fight occurs, you can't take your helmet off so the guy who is physical and a fighter but has a visor on is asking his opponant to destroy his hands in fighting him. That's why Frazer had the courtesy to ask Moen for them to get their helmet off so they could be even.

It's like the NHL is being sneaky into phasing the fighting out.

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10-25-2013, 08:37 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Booth23 View Post
Everybody cries about the staged fight thing. But it's pretty clear that these are a direct result of the attempt to curb fighting with the instigator rule. So, obviously, get rid of that rule. One could also argue that the advent of the pure enforcer came with the elimination of bench clearing brawls.

A couple of examples of blowback for typical liberal do-goodery. The second and third order effects of using rules to cramp down on minor problems just creates even bigger ones.
Yea i've said this from the start, the instigator create staged fighting. Also I noticed how the ref are harder on stopping fights when it happens on the spur of the moment(like it should be) so it's almost as if the NHL prefers the staged fights.

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10-25-2013, 08:44 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by 91akarst* View Post
I hope fighting is not on its way out, its what got me interested in hockey in the first place. If it does get eliminated, it will be for money not no suits caring about "player safety." People around seem to be delusioned with the thought that lawers running the league actually care about the saftey of players. The world evolves around money, the NHL is no different.

The reason the NFL/NHL is taking a hard stance against concussions is for the simple fact of insurance companies wont be quick to cover concussions anymore instead sending the bill to the owners. Plus going to court for HUNDREDS of millions of dollars dont help either. "Player Safety" is just a nice way of covering greed from the leagues side and come off as the good guy in the public. Which judging from posts on here, are doing a damn good job.

One last thing, why are so many fans so concerned about player saftey in the first place?

The way I see it, most of you dont know the players on personal level to warrant these concerns. Further more, they are getting paid quite well to play a CONTACT sport while there are 900 million people starving in the world. Where is your concern for that?Plus they are adults, most are well aware of the risks playing this game. None of us are pointing a gun at their dome forcing them to have a profession where concussion risks are really high.

The only fighting ban in hockey I will back is in Juniors and below. Not the No Hit League.
Also people should be responsible of their action, they are not children. When you decide to hit and fight, guess what, like boxing, there's a good chance you're going to be concussed. But it's a part of the game. Same thing when you become a cop or a soldier, it's gonna hurt sometime.

You can call this the warrior code. You accept everything that goes along with it. I see no problem with it.

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10-26-2013, 12:04 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Yea i've said this from the start, the instigator create staged fighting. Also I noticed how the ref are harder on stopping fights when it happens on the spur of the moment(like it should be) so it's almost as if the NHL prefers the staged fights.
Totally agree the instigator should go. People seem to think this extra 2 minute penalty is the only thing stopping enforcers like Orr from cleaning someone like Crosby's clock for no reason. There are so many flaws to this mindset.

1) If he wanted to do that, he's probably facing a lot more penalty minutes than the 2 from instigating, so what's 2 more?
2) This would already be happening in lopsided games today where another 2 minute penalty is meaningless, but it doesn't happen
3) SUSPENSIONS ARE THE MAIN DETERRANT, not a 2 minute instigator penalty. Obviously they would still be given out for people who cross the line. This renders the instigator rule meaningless. edit: fear of retaliation could also be considered a deterrant. But again, the instigator isn't deterring anything.


Eliminating the instigator might at first lead to a small rise in fights, but it undoubtedly would decrease over the long run, as the need for staged fights would all but disappear.

On that note, can anyone give me any positives that come about directly from keeping the instigator rule? I can only think of good reasons for it to be removed, and not vice versa.

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10-26-2013, 12:55 PM
  #336
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Instigator has to go...... common sense but common sense isn't a factor here. Five uears from now it will be gone. Writing is on the wall

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10-27-2013, 02:19 PM
  #337
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Get rid of the staged fights; face-off, drop helmets, officials stand aside and boom. Makes NHL look like WWE.
Fights breaks out in the midst of heated play, fine, but get rid of the fight 3 seconds into the game; what are they pissed off about, the hotel brunch?

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10-27-2013, 07:34 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Also people should be responsible of their action, they are not children. When you decide to hit and fight, guess what, like boxing, there's a good chance you're going to be concussed. But it's a part of the game. Same thing when you become a cop or a soldier, it's gonna hurt sometime.

You can call this the warrior code. You accept everything that goes along with it. I see no problem with it.
Your opinion is shared by many. The NHL however has decided it doesn't want to allow any hits to the head in it's game, whether it is from a body check or a punch it makes no difference to them. It also wants every player to wear a helmet with a visor at all times.. This is the path the NHL has chosen and the only way fans can get the NHL to reconsider, is by speaking with their wallets, just stop buying tickets, stop buying merchandise, and stop supporting the NHL. When the NHL sees a decrease in revenue only then will they consider changing their current course.

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10-28-2013, 06:56 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TellNoMore View Post
Get rid of the staged fights; face-off, drop helmets, officials stand aside and boom. Makes NHL look like WWE.
Fights breaks out in the midst of heated play, fine, but get rid of the fight 3 seconds into the game; what are they pissed off about, the hotel brunch?
Glad to know people post here that haven't watch a full NHL game in their careers. There are a host of reasons as to why fights start right after the whistle. Watching hockey all my life, I don't even need to ask anymore.

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11-03-2013, 06:15 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by 10 Minute Misconduct View Post
Sports are for entertainment. Fighting is entertaining. Fighting is a part of hockey. As long as UFC and boxing are still legal there should be fighting in hockey.
Gladiators were for the entertainment of the crowd, they fought to the death for the fun of the crowd. You want to bring that back too?

And Boxing? Legal? yes and that is because BOTH people train to fight, each has a choice to enter the ring.

The way YOU put it, each hockey players should take fighting lessons and then let the HOCKEY begin.
I got one better, change football, let those HUGE 300lbs guys go NUTS.
Now that would be entertaining RIGHT? You might even see a linebacker beat the **** out of a small quarterback or even the kicker they are even smaller. What a show. Lose the game but send 20 guys to the hospital WOW WHAT A GAME!

In any case, fighting will be outlawed in the NHL one day and that is because fighting is now in transition in the minors, lots of leagues are banning it outright. Once ALL your prospects cant punch there way out of a paper bag how are they going to fight in the NHL. The ban is coming, it will happen.

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11-04-2013, 04:51 PM
  #341
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
Gladiators were for the entertainment of the crowd, they fought to the death for the fun of the crowd. You want to bring that back too?

And Boxing? Legal? yes and that is because BOTH people train to fight, each has a choice to enter the ring.

The way YOU put it, each hockey players should take fighting lessons and then let the HOCKEY begin.
I got one better, change football, let those HUGE 300lbs guys go NUTS.
Now that would be entertaining RIGHT? You might even see a linebacker beat the **** out of a small quarterback or even the kicker they are even smaller. What a show. Lose the game but send 20 guys to the hospital WOW WHAT A GAME!

In any case, fighting will be outlawed in the NHL one day and that is because fighting is now in transition in the minors, lots of leagues are banning it outright. Once ALL your prospects cant punch there way out of a paper bag how are they going to fight in the NHL. The ban is coming, it will happen.
Word for word I heard that debate 20 years ago. The exact same thing. The anti-fighting crowd sort of reminds me of the crowd that is SURE that this is the time that Don Cherry is going to be fired. "It'll happen this time. He's gone too far." The more things change, the more they look like 1991 again.

Fighting is hockey. Period. It is a part of the game and should be left alone. Most players in the NHL aren't Braden Holtby, they can actually THROW a punch here and there.

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11-04-2013, 05:08 PM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TellNoMore View Post
Get rid of the staged fights; face-off, drop helmets, officials stand aside and boom. Makes NHL look like WWE.
Fights breaks out in the midst of heated play, fine, but get rid of the fight 3 seconds into the game; what are they pissed off about, the hotel brunch?
I never ever understand this comparison... What on earth makes it like WWE?
- Is it the pyro and entrance music?
- Do coaches meet before the game to discuss who's going to win the fight?
- Do they agree upon a hardcore match where tables, ladders and chairs are allowed to be used in the fight?
- Oh, i know... It's the suplexing, powerbombs, top rope frog-splashes and 3 counts that make it look like the WWE.

Fights 3 seconds into a game? Right on, because you know something that happened in a previous game should never be addressed if a player did something questionable.

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11-04-2013, 06:24 PM
  #343
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Wonder what would happen if by rule an official MUST assign an instigator penalty for EVERY SINGLE fight??? That would sure make guys think before they drop the gloves... Could stop the staged stuff and the old I'm gonna start a fight to change the momentum in the game thing

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11-04-2013, 09:07 PM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Glad to know people post here that haven't watch a full NHL game in their careers. There are a host of reasons as to why fights start right after the whistle. Watching hockey all my life, I don't even need to ask anymore.
People don't get that.

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11-06-2013, 08:58 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Nobody is 'organizing' kids fights.

In addition, youth boxing is perfectly legal all over North America. Should it be outlawed too?





You can't stereotype like that.
I heard on the radio in Milwaukee yesterday that 5 to 7 years olds are involved in some kind of MMA for kids. The story claimed that up to 3 million kids in the US were in this fighting. That was the first that I heard of this.

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