HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Forwards Time on Ice

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-16-2013, 08:15 AM
  #51
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
What about Hendricks? Justify nearly 16 minutes a night for a 4th liner. Or 19 minutes for nystrom? This is inane.
How many times was Nystrom on the far wing during the second resulting in over one minute shifts? Hendricks is benefiting from being on the Gaustad line. Trotz is rolling the lines that are clicking and performing. As I said, I'm sure once the other lines start clicking then the ice time will start looking more like what the preconceived notions are. Until then, play the hot hand especially when it resulted in seven goals over the past two games and two wins in a row.

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2013, 08:44 AM
  #52
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chattanooga TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,512
vCash: 500
Fair enough. I've seen Trotz due this before though and it leads to up and down inconsistent play IMO.

__________________
- Enoch -
Enoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2013, 09:12 AM
  #53
Persona5
Registered User
 
Persona5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,030
vCash: 700
I think the lack of playing time for Stalberg right now is working him back into game shape after being out for awhile. His minutes should improve. I liked the lines last night and hope Trotz sticks with them so they can continue to gel together.

Persona5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2013, 09:36 AM
  #54
Preds33
Registered User
 
Preds33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 2,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
I think the lack of playing time for Stalberg right now is working him back into game shape after being out for awhile. His minutes should improve. I liked the lines last night and hope Trotz sticks with them so they can continue to gel together.
I didn't realize they were playing any specific lines last night. To me it looked like every time a "Line" came out, someone on it had changed. There didn't appear to be any consistency other than Gaustad/Hendricks together. Everyone else appeared to play on a line with everyone else.

Preds33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2013, 10:23 AM
  #55
Persona5
Registered User
 
Persona5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,030
vCash: 700
Smith talked on 102.5 this morning and talked about how he is fine playing with anyone on the team but also stated playing with Cullen/Bouque has been great for him. I think that was a line that was more consistant last night. Wilson/Fisher/Horny were also paired much of last night as well. then you had Forsberg/Legwand/Stalberg on a line.

While it seems like lines are jumbled up it generally is someone stuck on the ice from a prior shift most of the time. when they lined up for faceoffs the above was pretty much the pairings.

Persona5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2013, 12:47 PM
  #56
gopreds19
Formerly gobears19
 
gopreds19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,188
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
Smith talked on 102.5 this morning and talked about how he is fine playing with anyone on the team but also stated playing with Cullen/Bouque has been great for him. I think that was a line that was more consistant last night. Wilson/Fisher/Horny were also paired much of last night as well. then you had Forsberg/Legwand/Stalberg on a line.

While it seems like lines are jumbled up it generally is someone stuck on the ice from a prior shift most of the time. when they lined up for faceoffs the above was pretty much the pairings.
Nevermind. Edit.

gopreds19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2013, 10:40 PM
  #57
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
So thinking about this today people were discussing who should play, who should be scratched, yadda yadda yadda. Bottom line is we are not going to be a team that has two top lines, a defensive/checking line that can chip in every so often and a 4th line with grinders, we simply don't have the top 6 talent to pull that off. Hence, we are what we are, a team with 3 second lines and a 4th line that is full of grinders. So where does that leave us? In a bit of a pickle. At the beginning of the year no one knew what we were getting in our free agents, our younger players, the guys coming off of injuries and the "guys who were returning" that were deserving of roster spots.

Now that we're a little bit into the season, the one guy that has thrown a wrench in all of this to me is Nystrom. He's played well enough to warrant 3rd line minutes or line 1C as we have it and in doing so, he's pushed one of the other wingers to either the 4th line, where they are not suited to play or to the bench. So the question begs is Nystrom sustainable on one of the top 3 lines or will his production come down and he's put on the 4th line? If he sustains, Spaling, Forsberg and Stalberg all appear to be guys on the bubble at this point. If he doesn't sustain then 2 of the 3 above will play and the other is waiting or playing on the 4th line. Only Spaling is a guy that could fill either role whereas the Berg's need to be in the top 9. So, let's take a look at the possibilities.

The top 9 forwards we have are:
Center: Fisher, Legwand, Cullen. At least that was easy.

Wings: Wilson/Hornqvist(Fisher)
Smith/Bourque(Cullen)
??(Legwand)

So who deserves the two spots with Legwand? Forsberg and Nystrom have gotten a bunch of time with him and that line does ok but doesn't seem like a great fit as Nystrom, while solid defensively doesn't keep up offensively with those two. Stalberg would be a likely candidate to take Nystrom's spot but Trotz doesn't seem to want to move him off of that line. So we sign a guy like Stalberg to hopefully come in and generate offense for us but has been displaced by a career 4th line energy guy. The Fisher and Cullen lines seem to be working pretty well so we need to figure out how to get the most out of the rest of the lineup and pair two guys with Legwand. I ultimately think having the Berg's with Legwand should work as Viktor and Legwand can stretch the ice which should give Filip more time and space which he has shown the ability to use.

So now if we do that, how do fill out the 4th line? Hendricks has been what he is, nothing horrible but nothing great either. Gaustad is slowly growing on me as his health has a direct correlation to his overall effectiveness and for now, he centers the 4th line. Nystrom should be on a wing and then you have one more spot. Spaling has shown he can play, has some speed and can generate some offense here and there. Clune is well, Clune. So who plays on the 4th line? My gut tells me it should be Gaustad, Nystrom and Spaling but knowing Trotz it will be Goose, Nystrom and Hendricks in time and if he wants more grit, he bumps Nystrom up and sits a guy who may need a night from the top 9 group of wingers.

To me, you have grit and PK'ers on the 4th line if you need them, you have your best 9 forwards on your top 3 lines giving you the chance to be effectively offensively and still playing an effective two game all the while having 2 guys on the bench in case of injury or lineup adjustments according to what teams we may be playing.

At this point, I think signing Hendricks was a mistake as far as production, salary and length of contract goes. He is redundant so I don't really see the need for him to be perfectly honest. Nystrom has been the biggest surprise. Cullen is coming around and working really well with Smith and Stalberg is too early to tell, especially coming off of a shoulder injury.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2013, 11:43 PM
  #58
NoNecksCurse
Registered User
 
NoNecksCurse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 5,570
vCash: 500
hendricks was one of poile's worst signings. no way around it. cullen and nystrom have imo been worth the money. stalberg it is too early too tell. im not gonna say too much about his production with 4th liners but his game from end to end needs to pick up. he can't just expect to skate fast and score goals. trotz won't go for that. and at this point, he hasnt really earned any preferential treatment just because of a contract.

here are lines...

roll this line as a #1 !! ---

cullen with bourque/smith
fisher with wilson/forsberg
legwand with hornqvist/stalberg
gaustad with nystrom/spaling or clune

hendricks... just call it what it is.. a bad contract. the guy brings nothing other than veteran leadership (we have enough) and some grit in the way of hits

NoNecksCurse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 12:47 AM
  #59
deanwormer
Registered User
 
deanwormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 957
vCash: 500
If Nystrom "deserves" to play on 1C it's Bourque that should skate with Goose, not Stalberg. However, can't mess with the Cullen line right now.

and Hendricks is certainly better than Clune; Love Clune's energy and attitude, but he doesn't have good sense - kinda' like Toots all those years running around doing stupid stuff just as often as making a good hit. Don't like Hendricks at that money, but I'm ok with the signing in general.

deanwormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 12:54 AM
  #60
goeb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 51
vCash: 500
Preds lack that dominant top line so it will be ice-time by committee until we see consistency over the long-haul.

Cullen is not a top line center, so I expect him to eventually have 3rd line Center minutes and don't hold my breath that his line can keep it together like this all season (hope I am wrong though!).

The lines that are able to maintain a cycle and enter into the zone without pure dump and chase deserve the ice-time at this rate.

I will also attract some vitriol here but I don't think Hendricks deserves to be the whipping boy. He plays his role well and he is an energizer type player (hits , forechecks with intensity and goes the extra mile in his own end), sure he won't score much but that's expected based on past seasons.

goeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 08:54 AM
  #61
PFL615
Registered User
 
PFL615's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Smashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,577
vCash: 500
Yeah Hendricks is playing his role problem is we need one of him and his skill level not 4.

PFL615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 09:07 AM
  #62
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Hendricks an energy line guy? Really? Come on. The guy is barely hitting anything. That's what I want from an energy guy, the willingness to hit anything and everything in his path. Hendricks has thrown a few hits here and there but for my money, I'd take Tootoo any day of the week as he had momentum changing body checks and that can wake a team or a crowd up. Hendricks is not doing that and that's what an energy guy does.

On the flip side he has been pretty good on the PK from what I have seen so I'm good there. I just think he is redundant but here's the thing, if the team is winning and he's doing things we can't see behind closed doors to keep the team loose or fired up, maybe he was worth the money.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 10:04 AM
  #63
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Hendricks an energy line guy? Really? Come on. The guy is barely hitting anything. That's what I want from an energy guy, the willingness to hit anything and everything in his path. Hendricks has thrown a few hits here and there but for my money, I'd take Tootoo any day of the week as he had momentum changing body checks and that can wake a team or a crowd up. Hendricks is not doing that and that's what an energy guy does.

On the flip side he has been pretty good on the PK from what I have seen so I'm good there. I just think he is redundant but here's the thing, if the team is winning and he's doing things we can't see behind closed doors to keep the team loose or fired up, maybe he was worth the money.
Nystrom with 26 hits ... Nystrom with 23 ... both in the top 40 forwards across the league in that category. Hendricks with five minor penalties is tied for 18th among NHL forwards (still behind Weber's total and only one ahead of Fisher who has a couple of penalties at critical moments).

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 01:16 PM
  #64
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Nystrom with 26 hits ... Nystrom with 23 ... both in the top 40 forwards across the league in that category. Hendricks with five minor penalties is tied for 18th among NHL forwards (still behind Weber's total and only one ahead of Fisher who has a couple of penalties at critical moments).
Hits is one thing, hits that change the momentum of the game is what I'm talking about. How many of his hits do you remember? How many woke the team or the crowd up?

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 04:20 PM
  #65
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Hits is one thing, hits that change the momentum of the game is what I'm talking about. How many of his hits do you remember? How many woke the team or the crowd up?
Nice morph from he isn't hitting anything to he isn't making the highlight reel hits you'd like to see. I can remember several of his hits because they effectively separated an opposing player from the puck. He doesn't make the Tootoo-esque huge hit nor does he take himself out of position or slam the boards after missing the opponent as Tootoo tends to do.

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 08:01 PM
  #66
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Nice morph from he isn't hitting anything to he isn't making the highlight reel hits you'd like to see. I can remember several of his hits because they effectively separated an opposing player from the puck. He doesn't make the Tootoo-esque huge hit nor does he take himself out of position or slam the boards after missing the opponent as Tootoo tends to do.
No morphing done. Read my last two posts, said the same thing. Read closer. I said momentum changing hits in my last two posts so where did the morphing come from?

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 08:04 PM
  #67
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
The guy is barely hitting anything.


Your exact words. Then when he's top 40 among forwards in hits, it is
Quote:
How many of his hits do you remember? How many woke the team or the crowd up?
What percentage of Tootoo's "hits" were on an opposing player rather than testing the installation of the boards and glass? Was it higher or lower than Uecker's batting average?

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 08:10 PM
  #68
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Your exact words. Then when he's top 40 among forwards in hits, it is

What percentage of Tootoo's "hits" were on an opposing player rather than testing the installation of the boards and glass? Was it higher or lower than Uecker's batting average?
Read my entire post and while those were my exact words they were followed by other words referring to momentum changing hits. That is not morphing, that is you selectively reading to prove Your points with stats which was not what I was referring to.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 08:14 PM
  #69
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Read my entire post and while those were my exact words they were followed by other words referring to momentum changing hits. That is not morphing, that is you selectively reading to prove Your points with stats which was not what I was referring to.
It's you using an impossible to prove feeling (momentum changing is meaningless and absolutely subjective) to ignore the fact that Hendricks does hit quite often. He blocks shots. Just as you ignore the high percentage of attempted hits by Tootoo that misses to this day.

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 09:08 PM
  #70
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It's you using an impossible to prove feeling (momentum changing is meaningless and absolutely subjective) to ignore the fact that Hendricks does hit quite often. He blocks shots. Just as you ignore the high percentage of attempted hits by Tootoo that misses to this day.
Momentum changing is meaningless? OK, if you say so.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 09:16 PM
  #71
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
All I can ask you is remember the game against Dallas where Weber took a stick to the face and he thought it was by Jagr but it was actually by Erat? Weber was skating to the bench and had to skate back defensively with no stick and he was bleeding. He then proceeded to obliterate two Stars players, one in the corner and one guy coming down the slot area. The team was down at that point in the game yet some how rallied to win the game. After those two hits, the team rallied around their captain and picked up their game because he got the team and the crowd in to the game. But yeah, hits don't cause momentum changes in a game.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 09:19 PM
  #72
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
All I can ask you is remember the game against Dallas where Weber took a stick to the face and he thought it was by Jagr but it was actually by Erat? Weber was skating to the bench and had to skate back defensively with no stick and he was bleeding. He then proceeded to obliterate two Stars players, one in the corner and one guy coming down the slot area. The team was down at that point in the game yet some how rallied to win the game. After those two hits, the team rallied around their captain and picked up their game because he got the team and the crowd in to the game. But yeah, hits don't cause momentum changes in a game.
Was it the hit or was it the captain finally showing some emotion in that game? Defining the subjective is about the equivalent as proving a negative.

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 09:20 PM
  #73
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Was it the hit or was it the captain finally showing some emotion in that game? Defining the subjective is about the equivalent as proving a negative.
So now you're quantifying by a guy showing emotion? Is there a stat for that too?

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 09:23 PM
  #74
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So now you're quantifying by a guy showing emotion? Is there a stat for that too?
No, there isn't ... but I'm not the one trying to categorize a subjective area. I countered your subjective with a question that you seem incapable of answering. You also bring up Tootoo then ignore the questions about his hits actually connecting.

Looking at observable and measurable events tonight .. Hendricks with blocked shot (meets both) leading to a short handed chance. Hendricks putting the puck past Halak (observable) only to have it waived off based on a penalty.

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2013, 09:32 PM
  #75
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
No, there isn't ... but I'm not the one trying to categorize a subjective area. I countered your subjective with a question that you seem incapable of answering. You also bring up Tootoo then ignore the questions about his hits actually connecting.

Looking at observable and measurable events tonight .. Hendricks with blocked shot (meets both) leading to a short handed chance. Hendricks putting the puck past Halak (observable) only to have it waived off based on a penalty.
There's no stats for his hits connecting so how will I discuss that? What about the ones that did connect that changed the course of the game? That got the crowd into the game? That got the team into the game? They're called intangibles and can't be measured, just like a guy who may be a leader that does or doesn't wear a letter on their uniform. Or maybe a guy who we don't see in the locker room who gets the team fired up or calms them down on the bench.

There's more to the game than just stats and we can sit here and argue stats versus intangibles all day long but everyone sees the game a little differently. I've watched enough hockey to see guys who can change the game via a hit or a great offensive play or a great defensive play or by hustle, some of which there are stats for and some of which there aren't, it doesn't make them any less viable.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.