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2013-2014 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread

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Old
10-26-2013, 12:24 PM
  #751
Marc the Habs Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
McCarron had 5 pts in 6 games to start the season.. Not necessarily bad, definitely around the PPG pace we were hoping..

http://www.stthomastimesjournal.com/...through-injury Here's an article where he talks about the injury..

The Montreal Canadiens prospect is currently gritting his teeth and playing hurt while recovering from a first degree separation of the AC (acromioclavicular) joint in his shoulder suffered in the same game at Guelph where Domi was ejected.

“I can’t really play my physical, hit-everybody-you-see style — I’m still tempted but I’m recovering,” the 18-year-old said. “There’s no structural damage so there’s nothing worse that can happen than just doing it again.”

He admitted it still hurts pretty bad when he bumps into opponents with his shoulder. He’s been trying to compensate by doling out punishment on the opposite side, shielding the pain.

“That’s why I haven’t really been able to play my kind of style for 60 minutes,” he said. “It’s starting to get better so I’m starting to use that shoulder a lot more. Right now, I’m just playing through it.”


Since the Guelph game injury.. he's had 1 pt in 7 games. I think the injury is definitely effecting his game.
Good find and I'll lay off him for now as a result of reading this.

I understand that he's probably looking to earn respect from his new teammates by playing through it, but he probably would have been better off resting it the last 3 weeks and coming back only when he was 100%.

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Old
10-26-2013, 01:09 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Your logic is very flawed as you can't compare Lucic as a 17 year old to McCarron as an 18 year old.

That being said, it is ridiculous that people are making a big deal over his first 10 games. We knew he was a project when he was drafted so show some patience and let the kid develop.
Where do I compare 17 year old Lucic to 18 year old McCarron? Tell me please. What my one sentence said is that it is not fair to compare 18 year old McCarron to 18 year old Lucic because Lucic was in his second full year in the WHL and did not have to adapt to a much higher level of competition. I did not suggest that we should compare a 17 year old to an 18 year old - you made that inference for me!

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10-26-2013, 01:17 PM
  #753
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Honeslty, I think Mccaron might just be adapting because OHL is still a competitive league despite being juniors. I agree, the comparison with lucic shouldn't have been made because Lucic was already in the league at 17. I don't think you guys realize that OHL is still a high level of competition. He will be just fine, again like I mentioned it's not the production that worries me. He has flaws in his game. Corey Locke was a monster in juniors but never amounted to anything in the NHL. It's not just about stats its about flaws in the game. I don't see the complete package in Mccaron to be a solid power forward in the NHL and this includes speed. He moves well for a huge guy but for me it's still not enough. Time will tell, let time be the judge here guys.

Timmins is a TREMENDOUS scout but like everyone he has weaknesses. What I dont like about Timmins he really likes big americans that have some potential. Problem is that these guys haven't played in the OHL and have adapt to higher leagues. Pacioretty was a great pick but what about Fisher? Fischer couldn't even make a name for himself in the ECHL. It just shows you the huge gap of competition and the adaption these US guys have to make. OHL guys have generally a huge advantage in development. Tinordi (time will tell)? I remind you that even if LL is quebecer he was drafted out of the USHL. We are still wondering if Leblanc can play in the NHL or not. Mcdonagh was a good pick too even if he isn't with us. Thing is, we also have such a good eye for talent in Europe. We can take examples of Mark Streit and many more...and I absolutely believe that Nygren is NHL material. He was named the best D in Sweden meaning it wasn't the norris but just a trophy for the best D overall. Size is his only knock but despite that he has a good game overall.

I am just saying that Timmins shouldn't look for those americans in the first rounds where there is a big pool of talent for OHL and from Europe. I mean it's the first round, YOU DON'T PICK A PROJECT in the first round. A player that `` MIGHT `` have the tools to become something big 3 years from now AT LEAST. Some of these US players go to college so that's 4 years + AHL seasoning. An ohl player could be ready right away, look at Sean Monahan or Galchenyuk. In 2012, if we hadn't a pick in the top 5, Im wondering if Timmins woulda went for the best US player available again.

The Pacioretty pick was spot ON but I do believe in the first round you gotta pick more projectable players. Tinordi seems to be a good bottom 4-6 D but in the first round? You see the flaw?


Last edited by FazChenyuk: 10-26-2013 at 01:40 PM.
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Old
10-26-2013, 01:49 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
How many negatories are going to remember his injury at the end of the season if his point totals aren't spectacular? I'm guessing very few. ;-)
Everybody gets hurt throughout the year, so generally it pretty much evens out with the average player.

Also, McCarron wasn't productive in the USHL, so for me it would simply be in continuity with what he has done before. That said, I'll give him all the time in the world. Whether he's productive in junior changes very little for me anyways. I don't think anyone sees him as a future elite player in the NHL. He's likely more of a complementary player, I didn't like the pick from the start, so I won't complain everytime he doesn't score. I don't really agree with some of the premises made to come to the conclusion that he was a good pick either.

IMO if you're going for situational offensive player better off with offensive guys with flaws a la Ryan Murphy (different beast all together) but to simply make my point. People told me last year, after the WJC, that there's no way after seeing what they saw that Murphy would see the ice in the NHL. I obvisouly strongly disagreed and said that given proper use, no way this kid wouldn't be productive in the NHL. Give him offensive minutes, maybe weaker competition, time on the PP and he'll provide great value. That's already what we're seeing with him in Carolina.

I just feel that McCarron will command those types of minutes in the NHL which would be better served by a specialist. I also think that teams can run themselves to the ground pretty quick when they want to play that tough game. Sabres are making fools of themselves with Kaleta, Ott and Scott. In other sports, teams like the Tampa Bay Bucs, Okland Raiders and so on are ruining (have ruined) their franchise playing this way. Anyways, I just hope the Habs don't go that route.

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Old
10-26-2013, 02:22 PM
  #755
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Is it really safe to play him while injured that soon in the year? So he can't makes it worse...but he's not playing his game so something else could happen. Rest the kid a little...you'll need him come Mem Cup time.

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10-26-2013, 02:30 PM
  #756
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Is Hudon's place for the WJC safe? I mean, I didn't see him yet...but there are reports that while he is a PPG, he's not exactly as dominant as he was last year. I know...Sags isn't great. Yet, I wonder what it means for him for December. Let's hope he will be there.

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Old
10-26-2013, 02:35 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Is Hudon's place for the WJC safe? I mean, I didn't see him yet...but there are reports that while he is a PPG, he's not exactly as dominant as he was last year. I know...Sags isn't great. Yet, I wonder what it means for him for December. Let's hope he will be there.
I'm wondering as well. Especially that the group of coaches and managers from previous years is all gone. At least he did well at camp and Lake Placid this summer.

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Old
10-26-2013, 03:21 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Hudon is having a good sequence, he's now 16pts in 14 games.
He's looked better as the season has gone on, thought he wasn't looking himself early on and seemed to be playing more aggressive/chippy style of play but wasn't moving his feet as much as I've seen him in the past. Should be interesting to see what happens if/when he's traded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
I think people who expect these high picks to come to junior and "dominate" instantly are those who don't watch much junior. And as Grant said, a player like McCarron is not the type to dominate offensively for a while.

But Marc has a valid point. I speak routinely with London fans who believe it is certainly fair to say he's been a tad underwhelming so far. Having said that, it's also worth noting that the entire London team has been a tad underwhelming based on expectations. They'll all be fine in time.
in the London games I've seen, I haven't been very impressed with London on the whole but haven't seen any games recently. I was very impressed with McCarron before the injury but after he seemed to be getting less ice time and wasn't anywhere near as physical (which I assume he was told to take it easy since he returned so quickly from the shoulder injury)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KFlint View Post
Anyone saw Connor Crisp play this year? What does he look like? 13 points in 11 games so far, guess not many here such a start...
I've seen a little so far, liked what I've seen and have heard good things, saying that he's been a good veteran presence on the club. He seems to get a good amount of ice, plays in the top 6 and PP at least from what I've seen. I hope to see him more as the season goes on as he's having a solid start to the year.

Should be fun watching him in Hamilton next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Make it 5 games without a point for McCarron after Erie trounces them 5-1 tonight.

I don't know how some of you aren't at least a bit concerned. His production would be concerning for a 3rd rounder, let alone a 1st.

I wonder if he's still hurting from that shoulder injury he came back really quickly from. That would be a pretty decent reason, but why is he playing if that's the case?
I'm not the least bit concerned since I saw how he looked at the lake placid camp, preseason and how he looked pre shoulder injury in London. I would give just give it time, it's a very long season and we are only weeks into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
So far Grégoire and Crisp are very good surprise.
We need to wait in all cases.

As far as McCarron is concerned, I just hope he can start scoring to play with USA team in WJC.
Anyway he is a long term project: he will spend two years in OHL and probably another one in AHL.
He should get an invite to the winter camp (5-6 weeks away), but if he doesn't make it, I would think he'll be there in 2015.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brec7 View Post
How much is McCarron playing? London is loaded this year, is he even seeing that much ice time?
since returning from the shoulder injury, in the games I've seen he hasn't gotten a lot of ice time.

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Old
10-26-2013, 03:31 PM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Your logic is very flawed as you can't compare Lucic as a 17 year old to McCarron as an 18 year old.

That being said, it is ridiculous that people are making a big deal over his first 10 games. We knew he was a project when he was drafted so show some patience and let the kid develop.
is this a joke? were talking about different LEAGUES here, it doesnt matter if your ****ing 17 or 18 , you cant compare the USHL to the OHL, wether your 17 or 18, hes completely NEW to this 80 game league

all one has to do is look at tinordis first year in OHL and then his second, theres an ADAPTION to be made

him "struggling" in his first year in the OHL should not be concerning us at ALL , we should just be thrilled he's in the OHL PERIOD

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Old
10-26-2013, 03:46 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
Honeslty, I think Mccaron might just be adapting because OHL is still a competitive league despite being juniors. I agree, the comparison with lucic shouldn't have been made because Lucic was already in the league at 17. I don't think you guys realize that OHL is still a high level of competition. He will be just fine, again like I mentioned it's not the production that worries me. He has flaws in his game. Corey Locke was a monster in juniors but never amounted to anything in the NHL. It's not just about stats its about flaws in the game. I don't see the complete package in Mccaron to be a solid power forward in the NHL and this includes speed. He moves well for a huge guy but for me it's still not enough. Time will tell, let time be the judge here guys.

Timmins is a TREMENDOUS scout but like everyone he has weaknesses. What I dont like about Timmins he really likes big americans that have some potential. Problem is that these guys haven't played in the OHL and have adapt to higher leagues. Pacioretty was a great pick but what about Fisher? Fischer couldn't even make a name for himself in the ECHL. It just shows you the huge gap of competition and the adaption these US guys have to make. OHL guys have generally a huge advantage in development. Tinordi (time will tell)? I remind you that even if LL is quebecer he was drafted out of the USHL. We are still wondering if Leblanc can play in the NHL or not. Mcdonagh was a good pick too even if he isn't with us. Thing is, we also have such a good eye for talent in Europe. We can take examples of Mark Streit and many more...and I absolutely believe that Nygren is NHL material. He was named the best D in Sweden meaning it wasn't the norris but just a trophy for the best D overall. Size is his only knock but despite that he has a good game overall.

I am just saying that Timmins shouldn't look for those americans in the first rounds where there is a big pool of talent for OHL and from Europe. I mean it's the first round, YOU DON'T PICK A PROJECT in the first round. A player that `` MIGHT `` have the tools to become something big 3 years from now AT LEAST. Some of these US players go to college so that's 4 years + AHL seasoning. An ohl player could be ready right away, look at Sean Monahan or Galchenyuk. In 2012, if we hadn't a pick in the top 5, Im wondering if Timmins woulda went for the best US player available again.

The Pacioretty pick was spot ON but I do believe in the first round you gotta pick more projectable players. Tinordi seems to be a good bottom 4-6 D but in the first round? You see the flaw?
1. Big Mac's isn't particularly speedy, but his speed is good for a player is size, especially since he is still just 18. Even then, his skating and speed will improve, it is far from a weakness, considering his size and age. His biggest weaknesses are his leg strength and wrist-shot. He needs to be stronger on his skates, he falls down too easily for such a big guy, and he needs to develop a quicker and harder shot, including shooting the puck more often, in my opinion anyways.

2. You obviously believe that the OHL is better than USHL, that is fine, I would agree with you. But what you fail to understand is that the big players with potential who play in the OHL, are likely going to be ranked higher than their counterparts in the USHL. Why? Well, you have already insinuated that the OHL is the better league. How many forwards of similar size as Big Mac were drafted before him? Players of his type are few, and even fewer of them have better potential than Big Mac, it's just the way it is. So why in the world would you not draft a player like him, when he is exactly what his team needs?

And let us not be mistaken, Big Mac has the potential to be a a top 6 guy, that would be fantastic pick, considering where he was drafted. Even if he doesnt pan out to be a top 6 guy, with his skill level and drive, I am almost certain that he would develop into a top 9 guy, which would still be a good pick.

3. "Pacioretty was a great pick but what about Fisher?" You mean that some pan out but others don't? Really? Fisher was a bad pick, no question. It has been talked about to death. It wasn't Timmins' choice apparently, but regardless, some pan out others don't. As for Tinordi, unless something ridiculous happens, the pick is easily a great pick as well. Tinordi was good in the OHL, and has continued that trend in the AHL, he has also shown glimpse of being a very good physical defensemen in then near future, I think he has the potential to be a number 2 D in a few years, he has a good first pass, and has all you need to be a defensive stud in your own end.

What do Max Pac, Tinordi, and Big Mac have in common besides their nationality and the league they were drafted from? They were picked in similar draft positions(22,22,25 respectively), they are big, and they are known for being hard-workers.

Max Pac is our best forward, or atleast our best goal-scorer, and Tinordi is progressing very well, I am not worried about the Big Mac pick.

We picked both Chipchura and Marcel Hossa from the WHL from somewhat similar draft positions at Big Mac, Max Pac, and Tinordi , they didn't pan out, yet, I doubt you want us to avoid WHL players, and yet you want us to avoid the big, hard-working USHL players, who for the most part have been turning out very well for us.

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully it's worth your time.


Last edited by BlackStar: 10-26-2013 at 04:02 PM.
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Old
10-26-2013, 04:47 PM
  #761
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I'm not the least bit concerned since I saw how he looked at the lake placid camp, preseason and how he looked pre shoulder injury in London. I would give just give it time, it's a very long season and we are only weeks into it.
I've been reading HFBoards for years, and if I've learned one thing, it's that if montreal (the poster) isn't worried, I'm not worried.

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10-26-2013, 07:09 PM
  #762
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I'm at the Mooseheads game vs the Titan. Fucale let in 3 goals on 7 shots. He sucks.

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10-26-2013, 08:19 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by penopekoo View Post
I've been reading HFBoards for years, and if I've learned one thing, it's that if montreal (the poster) isn't worried, I'm not worried.
You are a wise man.

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10-26-2013, 09:24 PM
  #764
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I'm at the Mooseheads game vs the Titan. Fucale let in 3 goals on 7 shots. He sucks.
Lol.

That was pretty typical "bad" game for Fucale. Let in a few weak goals (only the first one was his fault, the other two were pretty high quality chances that he'd catch most nights) but still come up big enough in the 3rd to come out with the win.

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10-26-2013, 10:02 PM
  #765
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Lol.

That was pretty typical "bad" game for Fucale. Let in a few weak goals (only the first one was his fault, the other two were pretty high quality chances that he'd catch most nights) but still come up big enough in the 3rd to come out with the win.
That's what I figured lol.

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10-26-2013, 10:29 PM
  #766
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Thrower just fought a 6'6" guy...wonder how that looked?

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Old
10-26-2013, 10:35 PM
  #767
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Thrower just fought a 6'6" guy...wonder how that looked?
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=45624

Undrafted overager.

Hopefully he held his own.

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10-26-2013, 11:45 PM
  #768
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I've been reading HFBoards for years, and if I've learned one thing, it's that if montreal (the poster) isn't worried, I'm not worried.
Haha same here

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10-27-2013, 08:54 AM
  #769
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Looks like he took a solid punch. Other than that not much.

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10-27-2013, 10:19 AM
  #770
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Fights a bit like Prust. Similar builds, too. Hopefully they get a chance to know eachother.

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10-27-2013, 01:04 PM
  #771
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Fights a bit like Prust. Similar builds, too. Hopefully they get a chance to know eachother.
Takes balls for a 6' guy to take on a 6'6" guy(unless it's a non fighter). Obviously Thrower won't be an NHL HW but he could be a guy like Prust or Bieksa.

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10-27-2013, 02:33 PM
  #772
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As always it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of fight in the dog. Anyone that knows the size of fight in the Thrower's gives them the advantage and breathes life into tired teammates to enable comebacks. I like having the Thrower's edge on my team, how about everyone else?

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10-27-2013, 03:36 PM
  #773
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Looking for to see McCarron's fight of today's game!

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10-27-2013, 03:48 PM
  #774
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Looking for to see McCarron's fight of today's game!
Was nothing special. Mostly wrestling. I think he snuck one shot in when the refs came in.

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10-27-2013, 03:49 PM
  #775
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Looking for to see McCarron's fight of today's game!
Here

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