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Who is the best player of each country all time?

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Old
10-25-2013, 12:58 PM
  #76
Justinov
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Originally Posted by ImGoingNucks View Post
Hard to choose one for Denmark.

But as of now, even though it pains me not to choose Hansen, id have to say Frans Nielsen is the best as of now.

But that will most likely change with Eller or Boedker in the future.
It's question of best player whether you choose one that has retired or one already active. Since we don't know what the future will bring I'll split it up.

Best Danish Players:

For retired players I would say:
1) Jens Nielsen
2) Heinz Ehlers
3) Jesper Duus

These three played in Sweden before it was even an option for Danish players to go to NA for tryouts (Heinz Ehlers was offered by the Rangers I think, but turned it down).
Jens Nielsen 1987-2004 for Leksand, Malmö, Vesteräs and Rögle.
Heinz Ehlers from 1984-1993 for Leksand, AIK and Rögle.
Jesper Duus from 1987-1996 for Färjestad.

For current players:
It has to be Frans Nielsen based on the career so far and being the first Dane in NHL (not counting Poul Popiel).


Last edited by Justinov: 10-25-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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Old
10-26-2013, 05:36 AM
  #77
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I think Foster was pretty clearly the best member of that squad but in terms of best British player I couldn't rank him over Erhardt. I think he's pretty generally unknown/under-rated, I had him as one of my picks in the first All Time Draft, I don't think he's even been picked in a Minor League Draft since then.

Gerry Heffernan suggests that by going to Britain rather than stay in North America he ended up financially better off than the rest of his Allen Cup winning team-mates. Art Child, Foster's back-up at the Olympics, suggests something similar. I'd have to go digging through my books to get the exact references and I don't have time now
I have this. I don´t have link to the story but it was from Vern Degeers column from Windsor Daily.

Quote:
Jimmy told the Ice Hockey World correspondent he is quite satisfied with London and although realizing how wonderful it would be to don a Toronto Maple Leafs uniform, he considers it wiser to wait a little longer before taking the plunge into professional ranks," the article reads.
Basically the turning professional thing is bull... Foster was part of the first wave of senior/minor pro Canadians (and Canadian trained) going to Britain. I have understood that it was valid option at that time and they payed well. And its easy to believe that Fosters market value after the Olympics was quite high. I am not quite sure but if the one-year deal offered meaned that after that Foster was "unrestricted free agent" it means that Conn Smythe was even ready to offer a very low risk deal (much later edit. I have to admit that I don´t know what were all the downsides of being openly pro and its effects on pension and so on) . Many players were stuck with "never-ending" bad contracts with NHL teams.

Here is another from 1934 when he was still playing at Moncton Hawks.

Mcgill Daily - Mar 19, 1934
Quote:
He came in Moncton in 1930 and was the original goaler for the Hawks. This year he was made their captain. Foster is recognized by many critics as the best amateur goalie in Canada and his services have been sought by atleast one National Hockey team.


Last edited by Sanf: 10-26-2013 at 07:14 AM.
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Old
10-26-2013, 06:02 AM
  #78
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Foster was tempted over with the offer of money as well as a spot on the Olympic team, I think that shows you're point well about the validity of turning professional. I know there are rumours about him being offered contracts with Toronto and The Maroons but with the NHL only having room for 8 goalies, the extra cash and the Olympic spot I can't imagine it was a difficult choice to move to Britain.

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Old
10-26-2013, 06:48 AM
  #79
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I'd claim that a person on such a list would actually have to do something for their country, which effectively eliminates Ovechkin.
What? Ovie has U18 silver, U20 gold, two World championship golds (not appreciated in NA but in Europe they are) and has been in olympics and World championship all-star.

What has Selänne done compared to Ovie internationally?

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10-27-2013, 12:28 AM
  #80
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South Korea: Richard Park

Uganda: Malkit Singh Sondh



Last edited by Crosbyfan: 10-27-2013 at 12:36 AM.
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Old
10-27-2013, 12:41 AM
  #81
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Ukraine - Zhitnik (secondary nod goes to Khristich), and if we go by the "born in" rule like Heatley, then Bondra goes top of the heap.

Russia - Ovechkin, this one's easy.

Canada - I'm going to Lemieux on this one.

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Old
10-27-2013, 01:15 AM
  #82
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Austria: Vanek
Canada: Gretzky
Quebec: M. Richard
Czech: Jagr
Denmark: Nielson
Finland: Selanne
Germany: Krupp
Norway: Zuccarello
Latvia: Girgensons
Poland: Czerkawski
Russia: Kharlamov
Slovakia: Satan
Slovenia: Kopitar
Sweden: Peter Forsberg
Swiss: Streit
USA: Mike Ramsey



*edit* switched to forsberg, added some more countries


Girgensons is playing on the 3rd line in the Latvian national team. We've had about 20 other NHL players during the last 2 decades, so naming a guy who's played like 11 games for an NHL side really made me chuckle a bit.

Artūrs Irbe is an IIHF Hall-of-Famer, single-handedly almost led the Hurricanes to the Stanley Cup in 01/02, played in the NHL All-Star game twice.

Sandis Ozoliņš was probably the best offensive Dman in the league during his prime (along with Lidstrom), he's made the NHL All-Star team 7 times and he's won the Stanley Cup.

And that's talking only about recent history (so I'm not mentioning Balderis who was one of the best forwards in the world during mid-70s to early 80s, or Hatuļevs, who was the first Soviet player ever drafted by an NHL team).

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Old
10-27-2013, 02:35 AM
  #83
Rare Jewel
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Canada: Orr
Czech: Jagr/Hasek
Finland: Selanne
Germany: Kühnhackl
Norway: Knutsen
Latvia: Ozolinsh
UK: Hand
Poland: Czerkawski
Russia: Kharlamov/Fedorov
Slovakia: Stastny(Peter)
Slovenia: Kopitar
Sweden: Lidstrom
Swiss: Streit
USA: LaFontaine

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Old
10-27-2013, 07:07 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Namejs View Post


Girgensons is playing on the 3rd line in the Latvian national team. We've had about 20 other NHL players during the last 2 decades, so naming a guy who's played like 11 games for an NHL side really made me chuckle a bit.

Artūrs Irbe is an IIHF Hall-of-Famer, single-handedly almost led the Hurricanes to the Stanley Cup in 01/02, played in the NHL All-Star game twice.

Sandis Ozoliņš was probably the best offensive Dman in the league during his prime (along with Lidstrom), he's made the NHL All-Star team 7 times and he's won the Stanley Cup.

And that's talking only about recent history (so I'm not mentioning Balderis who was one of the best forwards in the world during mid-70s to early 80s, or Hatuļevs, who was the first Soviet player ever drafted by an NHL team).
Obviously, the guy you are reacting to was not serious with his list. Satan for Slovakia? Barely top-10. And Girgensons over Ozolinsh and Irbe? Hahaha.

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Old
10-27-2013, 02:42 PM
  #85
Sokil
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Originally Posted by Ivanko View Post
Obviously, the guy you are reacting to was not serious with his list. Satan for Slovakia? Barely top-10. And Girgensons over Ozolinsh and Irbe? Hahaha.
he also put down Mike Ramsey as the best USA player of all time

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Old
10-27-2013, 03:07 PM
  #86
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he also put down Mike Ramsey as the best USA player of all time
To be fair, he was a first-pairing defenceman on the most famous USA team of all time ...

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Old
10-27-2013, 04:31 PM
  #87
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Austria: Thomas Vanek
Canada: Bobby Orr
Czech: Jaromir Jagr
Finland: Teemu Selanne
Germany: Dany Heatley
Poland: Mariusz Czerkawski
Russia: Vladislav Tretiak
Slovakia: Zdeno Chara
Slovenia: Anze Kopitar
Sweden: Peter Forsberg
Swiss: Mark Streit
USA: Chris Chelios

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Old
10-27-2013, 05:01 PM
  #88
Sokil
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To be fair, he was a first-pairing defenceman on the most famous USA team of all time ...
By this logic Paul Henderson is the best Canadian player of all time.



of all time.

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Old
10-27-2013, 05:59 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Canada: Wayne Gretzky
USA: Chris Chelios
Sweden: Nicklas Lidstrom
Czech Republic: Dominik Hasek
Slovakia: Peter Stastny/Zdeno Chara
Russia: Vladislav Tretiak/Slava Fetisov
Finland: Teemu Selänne/Jari Kurri
The Winning Entry.

Evaluating Kurri and equalizing for context is kinda like evaluating Scotty Pippen and equalizing for context. He and Selänne are close- but I think you got the order right. Certainly Chara could add to his résumé and flip the script... but that's TBD.

Given their current career arcs, I don't think Ovy or Malkin are going to crack Russia's win-place order, however.

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Old
10-27-2013, 06:07 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ChiTownPhilly View Post
The Winning Entry.

Evaluating Kurri and equalizing for context is kinda like evaluating Scotty Pippen and equalizing for context. He and Selänne are close- but I think you got the order right. Certainly Chara could add to his résumé and flip the script... but that's TBD.

Given their current career arcs, I don't think Ovy or Malkin are going to crack Russia's win-place order, however.
Being named the best player in the world 4 times by either the players or writers by the age of 28 isn't a good enough pace for you?

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10-27-2013, 06:49 PM
  #91
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Being named the best player in the world 4 times by either the players or writers by the age of 28 isn't a good enough pace for you?
Outside Anglo-America, Tretiak is in the discussion for GoAT as a Goaltender. [Sometimes, a renegade or two within Anglo-America will also give him consideration.] Right now, assessing Ovechkin is sort of like assessing young A-Rod, but (hopefully) without the drugs. Looked to be on pace to challenge Hull as GoAT LW, but the waters are muddied a bit by a move to RW. Also (for good or ill), he'll need a Cup or two to buttress his legacy. Now you and I could well agree that it's unfair, but NHL superstars who fall short in the playoffs are remembered a whole lot less fondly.

Maybe you think he'll enter the conversation as a GoAT winger. The competition, especially at RW, is pretty stiff. I'm not going say he can't get there, but I'd say the odds are agin' it.

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10-27-2013, 06:55 PM
  #92
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What? Ovie has U18 silver, U20 gold, two World championship golds (not appreciated in NA but in Europe they are) and has been in olympics and World championship all-star.

What has Selänne done compared to Ovie internationally?
all time point leader in olympics

world championship gold + many other medals

olympic silver

there's probably a lot more but im not finnish so dont know all

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10-27-2013, 06:56 PM
  #93
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Outside Anglo-America, Tretiak is in the discussion for GoAT as a Goaltender. [Sometimes, a renegade or two within Anglo-America will also give him consideration.] Right now, assessing Ovechkin is sort of like assessing young A-Rod, but (hopefully) without the drugs. Looked to be on pace to challenge Hull as GoAT LW, but the waters are muddied a bit by a move to RW. Also (for good or ill), he'll need a Cup or two to buttress his legacy. Now you and I could well agree that it's unfair, but NHL superstars who fall short in the playoffs are remembered a whole lot less fondly.

Maybe you think he'll enter the conversation as a GoAT winger. The competition, especially at RW, is pretty stiff. I'm not going say he can't get there, but I'd say the odds are agin' it.
Ovechkin will never be better than Gordie Howe. He doesn't need to be better than Howe to be better than Tretiak...

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10-27-2013, 07:45 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Ovechkin will never be better than Gordie Howe.
Agreed, he isn't, and never will be.
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
He doesn't need to be better than Howe to be better than Tretiak...
He doesn't- yet I don't think he's likely to---

Just for amusement's sake, I decided to look at career stats for some legendary wingers-
Gordie Howe led the league in scoring at age 22-23-24-25, 28, and 34.
[That last is such a statistical outlier that something else figures to have been in play- perhaps extra power-play time above league average?]
Bobby Hull led the league in scoring at age 21, 23, & 27.
Jaromir Jagr led the league in scoring at age 22 and 25-26-27-28.
Maurice Richard led the league in goals at age 23, 25, and 28- then benefitted from a Hot Beliveau Injection and led in goals again at ages 32 & 33. [Upping his total by 20 over the previous two years sans a full-time Beliveau.]

I hope I'm wrong about this- because it would be good for hockey if I was, but it seems more likely than not that we've already witnessed Ovechkin's best years.

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Old
10-29-2013, 08:20 AM
  #95
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What? Ovie has U18 silver, U20 gold, two World championship golds (not appreciated in NA but in Europe they are) and has been in olympics and World championship all-star.
This is what happens when you don't look beyond numbers. He was mediocre at all of these tournaments, except the junior championship and the QF in Turin. He was OK at the WC08, was nearly invisible in 2012, and flat out sucked in 2010 (OG and WC). Nothing close to Bure, Makarov, or Kharlamov international heroics.

Oh, and Tretiak was the MVP of the Soviet league FIVE TIMES.

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10-29-2013, 11:27 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by florida pwnthers View Post
all time point leader in olympics

world championship gold + many other medals

olympic silver

there's probably a lot more but im not finnish so dont know all
Selänne doesn't have world championship gold. and has one silver and one bronze in world championships.

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10-29-2013, 12:15 PM
  #97
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This is what happens when you don't look beyond numbers. He was a mediocre at all of these tournaments, except the junior championship and the QF in Turin. He was OK at the WC08, was nearly invisible in 2012, and flat out sucked in 2010 (OG and WC). Nothing close to Bure, Makarov, or Kharlamov international heroics.
he was in wc08 all star team and played 3 games in 12 and had 4 points.wc06 and olympics he was in all star team. and for the record i have watched each and everyone of those tournaments so i am looking beyond the numbers. always with those arguments here. sheesh!

i am no way saying Ovechkin is best Russian/soviet player ever, just replying to your ridicilous claim about him doing something for their country.

and putting Bure with likes of Makarov and Kharlamov is just ridicilous. he hasn't done nothing much more than Ovie in international tournaments. one great olympics doesn't warrant place for Bure in discussion with the Soviet greats.

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Old
10-29-2013, 02:51 PM
  #98
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If we deduce best = most points in the NHL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ers_by_country

Breaking it down we get:

Canada: Wayne Gretzky
Czech Republic: Jaromir Jagr
Slovakia: Stan Mikita
Finland: Teemu Selanne
USA: Mike Modano
Sweden: Mats Sundin
Russia: Sergei Fedorov
UK: Steve Thomas
Ukraine: Peter Bondra
Serbia: Ivan Boldriev

Those would be the top ten countries, though that is also sorted by birth country, not which country they declared for nationally (ie Stan Mikita->Canada, Steve Thomas->Canada, Peter Bondra->Slovakia, Ivan Boldriev->Canada)
Man, I hate lists based on birth country. Peter Bondra belongs to Slovakia, just like Stan Mikita belongs to Canada.

I absolutely hate seeing Mikita on all time greatest Slovak hockey players list, even with an asterisk. He was trained in Canada, thus he is a Canadian hockey player. His parents might have been Slovak, but he left Slovakia as an 8-year old, so while we can say his ethnicity is Slovak, he isn't a Slovak hockey player.

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:25 AM
  #99
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Canada: Bobby Orr
U.S.A: Pat Lafontaine
Russia: Alex Ovechkin
Sweden: Nicklas Lidstrom
Czech Republic: Jaromir Jagr
Finland: Teemu Selanne
Slovakia: Peter Statsny
Germany: Erich Kuehnhackl
Latvia: Sandis Ozolinsh
Ukraine: Dmitri Khristich
Denmark: Frans Nielsen
Switzerland: Mark Streit
Poland: Mariusz Czerkawski
Belarus: Mikhail Grabovski
Slovenia: Anze Kopitar
Norway: Espen Knutsen
Lithuania: Dainius Zubrus
France: Cristobal Huet
Great Britain: Tony Hand
Austria: Thomas Vanek
Kazakhstan: Nik Antropov

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11-02-2013, 11:42 AM
  #100
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