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Around the NHL II - 11/8: Oilers Go Insane.

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Old
10-27-2013, 10:03 PM
  #426
FourRings
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Then why make that trade in the first place? Would it not end up being a lateral move if they trade him to restore the picks they just lost?
Because the Isles have a better shot of retaining Vanek than they would trying to sign him in UFA if he walked from a different team.

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10-27-2013, 10:12 PM
  #427
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So, looks like the Sabres are positioning themselves for McDavid. We sure do need yet another "generational talent" in the east.
the worst team only has a 25% chance of coming away with the first pick...so tanking intentionally isn't as much of a guarantee these days.

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10-27-2013, 10:16 PM
  #428
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Not gonna lie tho, their top 6 craps all over us big time
I'm not debating your statement, but Bailey - Nielsen - Okposo are playing waaaaaay over their heads. There's no way they keep up their current play.

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Because the Isles have a better shot of retaining Vanek than they would trying to sign him in UFA if he walked from a different team.
Will Wang open up the checkbook? What makes you think they will stop being a cap floor team?

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10-27-2013, 10:19 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Oh Thats Nashty View Post
I'm not debating your statement, but Bailey - Nielsen - Okposo are playing waaaaaay over their heads. There's no way they keep up their current play.



Will Wang open up the checkbook? What makes you think they will stop being a cap floor team?
That remains to be seen. You have to figure that Wang would've greenlit the deal (and potential cap implications) before Snow pulled the trigger. Still, if Vanek doesn't resign they flip him for a 1st and essentially rent a high caliber player for a 2nd round pick. Not too bad of a deal.

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10-27-2013, 10:23 PM
  #430
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isles plan for victory going according to plan

step 1: get another big name scorer

step 2: keep the king in new york

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10-27-2013, 10:27 PM
  #431
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Then why make that trade in the first place? Would it not end up being a lateral move if they trade him to restore the picks they just lost?
Simple answer is, it makes your team better, they are taking a chance that it makes the team better now, and in the future. Why trade a #1 pick, Dubinsky and Anisimov for Rick Nash ? It makes your team better. Vanek is much more talented than Moulson. Sure they are both 30+ goal scorers, but Moulson was doing it while riding shotgun with Tavares. Vanek was able to score 30+ goals a year without a center of Tavares' caliber. Vanek can create on his own, he's a better passer than Moulson, he can kill penalties and is a threat to score shorthanded goals, just way more of an overall player than Moulson. Watch this video, Moulson can only wish he can do 90% of what Vanek can do. Only a person who only looks at stats would think that Moulson and Vanek are equal players.
http://youtu.be/mgmQesh-oQM

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10-27-2013, 10:29 PM
  #432
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Why would the Isles trade Vanek at the deadline? They made this move because they want to get out of the first round. They're confident they can make the playoffs. If you meant his rights after they get eliminated, yeah they could do that, but they won't recoup they're losses.

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10-27-2013, 10:30 PM
  #433
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Yeah no, the more I think about it the Isles got ****ed by Regier. A lot of it has to do in that I have NO faith Vanek resigns with them.

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10-27-2013, 10:33 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by dspbathroom View Post
That remains to be seen. You have to figure that Wang would've greenlit the deal (and potential cap implications) before Snow pulled the trigger. Still, if Vanek doesn't resign they flip him for a 1st and essentially rent a high caliber player for a 2nd round pick. Not too bad of a deal.
Also look at what Calgary got for the 36 yo Iginla trade at the deadline and what Dallas got for 40 yo Jagr. Both teams got 2 prospects AND 1st round picks. Nashville got a great prospect for Martin Friggen Erat. The Isles will get a huge return for Vanek if he doesn't wanna sign an extension. If Buffalo feels they can get a 1st round pick for Moulson, the Isles will get a 1st round pick AND a prospect. Good trade for the Isles.

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10-27-2013, 10:35 PM
  #435
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Why is it "Martin Friggen Erat" ? He's a really good player. I thought it was a stupid trade on GMGM's part but he's not a waste of space or anything.

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10-27-2013, 10:36 PM
  #436
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Also look at what Calgary got for the 36 yo Iginla trade at the deadline and what Dallas got for 40 yo Jagr. Both teams got 2 prospects AND 1st round picks. Nashville got a great prospect for Martin Friggen Erat. The Isles will get a huge return for Vanek if he doesn't wanna sign an extension. If Buffalo feels they can get a 1st round pick for Moulson, the Isles will get a 1st round pick AND a prospect. Good trade for the Isles.
The Isles didn't trade for Vanek to deal him at the deadline. They want to win a round or two now.

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10-27-2013, 10:36 PM
  #437
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I think if you had to put a percentage on it, it'd guess that there is less than a 25% chance he re-signs. The Isles still have work to do on their team. Vanek isn't fixing the glaring defensive or goaltending issues that they have.

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10-27-2013, 10:37 PM
  #438
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However, good on them for not giving up a top prospect in the deal.

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10-27-2013, 10:37 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Also look at what Calgary got for the 36 yo Iginla trade at the deadline and what Dallas got for 40 yo Jagr. Both teams got 2 prospects AND 1st round picks. Nashville got a great prospect for Martin Friggen Erat. The Isles will get a huge return for Vanek if he doesn't wanna sign an extension. If Buffalo feels they can get a 1st round pick for Moulson, the Isles will get a 1st round pick AND a prospect. Good trade for the Isles.
This makes literally zero sense, when are they trading him? At the deadline? Why? At the draft? Won't get that return just for his rights.

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10-27-2013, 10:39 PM
  #440
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I always thought Moulson was very underrated. If Buffalo wants to flip him, flip him to us. Doubt seriously he stays in Buffalo long.

On the other hand I never really liked Vanek.

The Islanders are taking the very real chance of breaking up a young group that has grown up together. Sometimes that works (i.e. 1980 Islanders) More often it doesn't.

This looks to me like one of those trades that may end up not helping either team.


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10-27-2013, 10:47 PM
  #441
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I always thought Moulson was very underrated. If Buffalo wants to flip him, flip him to us. Doubt seriopusly he stays in Buffalo long.

On the other hand I never really liked Vanek.

The Islanders are taking the very real chance of breaking up a young group that has grown up together. Sometimes that works (i.e. 1980 Islanders) More often it doesn't.

This looks to me like one of those trades that may end up not helping either team.
Yikes. Definitely not. 196 of Moulson's 223 points with the Isles have been with Tavares on the ice. Unless he is coming as well, stay far, far away. This team needs young, skilled talent, and we certainly aren't in any position to be trading away any picks. Not for a UFA to be who is unproven without one of the best players in the league centering him.

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10-27-2013, 10:49 PM
  #442
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Isles want to win.
You could see that Capuano,who wears his emotions on his sleeve, was losing patience with the team. This is a big move early on which may either work like a charm or blow up in their face especially if Wang continues his cheapskate pattern and let's Vanek walk after the season. I feel bad for Moulson who played his ass off for the Islanders (after he was picked up off the scrap heap) where he developed tremendous chemistry with JT resulting in three straight 30+ goal seasons.

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10-27-2013, 10:53 PM
  #443
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Simple answer is, it makes your team better, they are taking a chance that it makes the team better now, and in the future. Why trade a #1 pick, Dubinsky and Anisimov for Rick Nash ? It makes your team better. Vanek is much more talented than Moulson. Sure they are both 30+ goal scorers, but Moulson was doing it while riding shotgun with Tavares. Vanek was able to score 30+ goals a year without a center of Tavares' caliber. Vanek can create on his own, he's a better passer than Moulson, he can kill penalties and is a threat to score shorthanded goals, just way more of an overall player than Moulson. Watch this video, Moulson can only wish he can do 90% of what Vanek can do. Only a person who only looks at stats would think that Moulson and Vanek are equal players.
http://youtu.be/mgmQesh-oQM
Terrific post; right on the money!

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10-27-2013, 10:55 PM
  #444
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You could see that Capuano,who wears his emotions on his sleeve, was losing patience with the team. This is a big move early on which may either work like a charm or blow up in their face especially if Wang continues his cheapskate pattern and let's Vanek walk after the season. I feel bad for Moulson who played his ass off for the Islanders (after he was picked up off the scrap heap) where he developed tremendous chemistry with JT resulting in three straight 30+ goal seasons.
Don't think this is a problem. Snow has basically handed out blank checks to get guys to sign with the Islanders in the past (Erhoff is one that comes to mind). I don't think Wang has a problem with paying for top talent, it's just that the top talent doesn't want to sign there. Which is a huge problem and that will be the telling of whether this deal was a failure or success for the Isles. It's not going to be the Isles decision whether he stays or goes.

If
A)Vanek doesn't re-sign
or
B)Vanek misses a bunch of time due to injury

Then the deal is a failure for the Isles. They'll make the playoffs, and give their young guys more experience there, and in that sense if they want to call that a success they can do that, but the Islanders are not winning the cup this year, and this is a move a cup contender makes.

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10-27-2013, 11:06 PM
  #445
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I am blah about the trade. In the end it doesnt matter because Moulson was leaving after this season anyway.

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10-27-2013, 11:08 PM
  #446
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Bad move for the Isles. Both players have had similar production the last two season. Moulson has proven beyond any doubt that he can provide that production alongside Tavares. Losing a second AND a first is just ridiculous.

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10-27-2013, 11:17 PM
  #447
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Simple answer is, it makes your team better, they are taking a chance that it makes the team better now, and in the future. Why trade a #1 pick, Dubinsky and Anisimov for Rick Nash ? It makes your team better. Vanek is much more talented than Moulson. Sure they are both 30+ goal scorers, but Moulson was doing it while riding shotgun with Tavares. Vanek was able to score 30+ goals a year without a center of Tavares' caliber. Vanek can create on his own, he's a better passer than Moulson, he can kill penalties and is a threat to score shorthanded goals, just way more of an overall player than Moulson. Watch this video, Moulson can only wish he can do 90% of what Vanek can do. Only a person who only looks at stats would think that Moulson and Vanek are equal players.
http://youtu.be/mgmQesh-oQM
Congrats, you get it and have clearly seen both guys play. Vanek is a much better player than Moulson, and the Islanders upgraded quite a bit.

 
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10-27-2013, 11:22 PM
  #448
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Isles really needed 3 things
-A legit 1st line winger to play with JT
-A good goalie
-A top 4 dman

We solved one of those tonight. Its easy to say the Isles need a Dman(lord knows we do), but which one should we get right now?

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10-27-2013, 11:23 PM
  #449
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Congrats, you get it and have clearly seen both guys play. Vanek is a much better player than Moulson, and the Islanders upgraded quite a bit.
Worth a first and a second? Considering Vanek is a UFA at the end of the year and there's already been talk of him wanting to go to Minnesota?

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10-27-2013, 11:24 PM
  #450
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Not sure if some people are just looking at stats and thinking Moulson and Vanek are close, because they're not. If you're the Islanders, and you can trade a UFA that looks like he probably won't resign for a guy of Vanek's caliber, and lose a 2nd and mid-tier first, how do you not make that trade? You make that trade and take a shot at re-signing Vanek. Understandable move for both teams.

 
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