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Old
12-10-2006, 06:31 PM
  #1
castlesave*
 
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Proposal LA-Buffalo

To Buffalo

Visnovsky
Garon

To LA

Biron
Kotalik
MacArthur or 2nd

Buffalo gets another D-man and a capable/cheaper backup goalie, LA gets an actual starting Goalie, someone that can score 20/25 goals, and a good prospect or pick....
Flame away

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Old
12-10-2006, 07:07 PM
  #2
johnjm22
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1)The Kings won't trade for Biron. They've already decided that Cloutier is "the guy."

2)Kotalik and MacArthur don't really interest me, they're quite unspectacular.

3)The Kings are in need of quality young Dmen more than anything else.

It's too bad for the Sabres though. Visnovsky would be a perfect fit for that team. He'd be racken up the points in no time.

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Old
12-10-2006, 08:30 PM
  #3
Goallum
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Not enough of a return for Visnovsky.

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Old
12-10-2006, 09:11 PM
  #4
Quattro
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STOP PROPOSING VISNOVSKY TRADES!

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Old
12-10-2006, 10:04 PM
  #5
KBA4life
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I would counter with this

To Buffalo: Vishnovsky, Tukonen

To LA: Vanek

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Old
12-10-2006, 11:33 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
STOP PROPOSING VISNOVSKY TRADES!
ditto on that!

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Old
12-10-2006, 11:39 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabesfan View Post
[

Buffalo gets another D-man
Another D-man? I don't think so. Lubo would be your best D-man.

These Visnovsky proposals are insane imo. Kings have no reason to trade him! Only the arm chair hfboard gms want him traded cause he can bring a huge return!


As far as value:

To Sabres - Visnovksy
To Kings - Afinogenov + Lydman

Would you do it? I don't think so but value wise it's pretty even.

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Old
12-10-2006, 11:45 PM
  #8
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I actually think Biron would be the best option as a stopgap for Bernier. Cloutier will start to suck again sooner or later. The prosposed trade is not enough for Visnovsky.

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Old
12-11-2006, 12:04 AM
  #9
johnjm22
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I actually think Biron would be the best option as a stopgap for Bernier.
Concur. But with the signing of Cloutier, Biron is no longer an option. It sucks really. We should have gone after Brion in the first place, and if we're unable to get him we should have just stuck with a Garon/Labarbera tandem.

BTW, we're gonna need a "stopgap" for more then 3 years. Bernier is likely 5 years away IMO.

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Old
12-11-2006, 12:04 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBA4life View Post
I would counter with this

To Buffalo: Vishnovsky, Tukonen

To LA: Vanek
That is fair. I wouldn't think twice about doing that.

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Old
12-11-2006, 12:46 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Concur. But with the signing of Cloutier, Biron is no longer an option. It sucks really. We should have gone after Brion in the first place, and if we're unable to get him we should have just stuck with a Garon/Labarbera tandem.

BTW, we're gonna need a "stopgap" for more then 3 years. Bernier is likely 5 years away IMO.
Good analysis. And speaking of which, the only "stopgap" is Cloutier himself playing better. Otherwise, let the high draft picks roll!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBA4life View Post
I would counter with this

To Buffalo: Vishnovsky, Tukonen

To LA: Vanek
While Vanek would be great return and is someone that Buffalo could possibly spare, I would prefer someone younger, at least development-wise. My revision of the trade would be like this:

To Buffalo: Lubomir Visnovsky, 2rd round choice 2007

To LA: Dimitri Kalinin, Marek Zagrapan, 1st round choice 2007

Kalinin would help replace the hole Visnovsky would leave, plus let Buffalo alleviate enough salary to fit in Visnovsky. We get a young center and an upgrade of a pick for our rebuild, which are two things that Buffalo doesn't need at all with their current team plus Visnovsky. Thus in this trade, we get two decent young bodies instead of one, Vanek, that will make the rebuild harder by scoring 30+ goals this season.

BTW, I am not proposing we trade Visnovsky, I'm just putting forth a deal that to me makes more sense.

- Ror

PS - Oh and there is one way to deal away Cloutier. It would be to take on an even crazier salary like Redden's of Ottawa in the hopes that in a three-way trade, someone would want Redden bad and the Kings would pay a big portion of his salary at least for this year.


Last edited by Rorschach: 12-11-2006 at 12:52 AM.
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Old
12-11-2006, 09:52 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabesfan View Post
To Buffalo

Visnovsky
Garon

To LA

Biron
Kotalik
MacArthur or 2nd

Buffalo gets another D-man and a capable/cheaper backup goalie, LA gets an actual starting Goalie, someone that can score 20/25 goals, and a good prospect or pick....
Flame away
The Kings aren't interested in a goalie this year, and Garon is injured or he'd be in the mix. And if you remove the two soon-to-be UFA's, your offer looks like this:

Visnovsky for Kotalik and a 2nd (or MacArthur)

If you fish around for some of the other Visnovsky trade proposal threads around here, you'll quickly realize how terrible an offer that is.

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Old
12-11-2006, 11:50 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
We get a young center and an upgrade of a pick for our rebuild, which are two things that Buffalo doesn't need at all with their current team plus Visnovsky.
We already traded our 2nd round pick for All-Star Cloutier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
PS - Oh and there is one way to deal away Cloutier. It would be to take on an even crazier salary like Redden's of Ottawa in the hopes that in a three-way trade, someone would want Redden bad and the Kings would pay a big portion of his salary at least for this year.
I have no clue what you mean by the Kings paying a big portion of his salary for this year. If you mean transferring money, that's not allowed under the new CBA.

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Old
12-11-2006, 09:41 PM
  #14
Martyros
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where are we going with this proposal for visnovsky? the last person that gets traded from this team would be visnovsky( age-wise ). like everyone has said so far, he will fetch far more than what you proposed and i doubt biron is such a big update over garon, garon is posting a bit better numbers on a team thats crappy. But you can take cloutier for him hell, we'll give him for free

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Old
12-11-2006, 09:48 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Concur. But with the signing of Cloutier, Biron is no longer an option. It sucks really. We should have gone after Brion in the first place, and if we're unable to get him we should have just stuck with a Garon/Labarbera tandem.

BTW, we're gonna need a "stopgap" for more then 3 years. Bernier is likely 5 years away IMO.
I'm not sure if it was you that I had this discussion with before, but after this season:

1-2 years in the A
1-2 years back-up in the NHL
Ready to be the starter

5 years in the worst case scenario...he could be ready a year before that...

The Kings also have Zatkoff and Quick in the pipeline and either of them could surprise us...thought not all that likely, I guess.

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Old
12-11-2006, 09:57 PM
  #16
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I don't know...nothing seems good enough to me for Visnovsky. Vanek is a great young player and I'm sure the Kalinin deal is fair, also...but I can't seem to reconcile either of those deals with trading a defenseman who's young enough to still be on this roster and in top form by the time the Kings should be perennial playoff contenders.

My opinion of Vis has heightened even more this season...I'm now pretty sure that, if he's not Norris calibre, he's only a scratch below it. I don't really want to give up a player like that, a player that we know is going to come to the rink every day and do his job...a player that we don't have to worry will come in and be a total bust after management gives him a big contract.

When this team gets to where it needs to be in terms of competitiveness, Vis is going to be an immense asset, IMO...I haven't found a proposal yet-even the ones I commented on favourably before-that I'd want to take.

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Old
12-12-2006, 01:00 AM
  #17
Rorschach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
We already traded our 2nd round pick for All-Star Cloutier.

I have no clue what you mean by the Kings paying a big portion of his salary for this year. If you mean transferring money, that's not allowed under the new CBA.
Sorry, I meant the next pick, not this year's in the sorry draft.

Poorly worded on my part. I meant something like, traded at the deadline when a lot of his regular season salary is paid by the Kings.

- Ror

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Old
12-12-2006, 01:03 AM
  #18
johnjm22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan25 View Post
I'm not sure if it was you that I had this discussion with before, but after this season:

1-2 years in the A
1-2 years back-up in the NHL
Ready to be the starter

5 years in the worst case scenario...he could be ready a year before that...

The Kings also have Zatkoff and Quick in the pipeline and either of them could surprise us...thought not all that likely, I guess.
5 years is the most realistic scenario.

If you honestly think there's a possibility it will only take two years, your kidding yourself. Who's currently the youngest starter in the NHL? I'm guessing Fluery at 22, and Bernier is not as far along as Fluery was at 18.

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Old
12-12-2006, 01:02 PM
  #19
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If you are offered Vanek for Vis and Tukanen you would be insane to pass that up. Vanek, at age 22 is already a force and a key component to Buffalo's success.

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Old
12-12-2006, 01:03 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
5 years is the most realistic scenario.

If you honestly think there's a possibility it will only take two years, your kidding yourself. Who's currently the youngest starter in the NHL? I'm guessing Fluery at 22, and Bernier is not as far along as Fluery was at 18.
Those that have seen the 2 suggest otherwise.

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Old
12-12-2006, 01:55 PM
  #21
johnjm22
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Those that have seen the 2 suggest otherwise.
Link?

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Old
12-12-2006, 02:07 PM
  #22
kingsfan25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
5 years is the most realistic scenario.

If you honestly think there's a possibility it will only take two years, your kidding yourself. Who's currently the youngest starter in the NHL? I'm guessing Fluery at 22, and Bernier is not as far along as Fluery was at 18.
No...it'll be three, minimum. If he's only in the A for one, he'll be a back-up for two...if he's in the A for two, he'll be a back-up for at least one, possibly two.

After this year, I think it'll be about 4 more before he's ready...possibly one less or one more, but I think 4 is a good estimate.

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Old
12-12-2006, 07:07 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
5 years is the most realistic scenario.

If you honestly think there's a possibility it will only take two years, your kidding yourself. Who's currently the youngest starter in the NHL? I'm guessing Fluery at 22, and Bernier is not as far along as Fluery was at 18.
Having watched both of them when they were in junior the question is not whether Bernier is better at 18, Fleury was miles ahead. The question is if Bernier will keep progressing or if he'll get into that middle-ground, stalling time that Fleury did when he was 19 and is starting to come out of now. When it comes to how quickly a goalie develops when they've got the raw skills of a Bernier it's how fast his head catches up to his body. We'll see what becomes of him, hopefully he'll take the reins at the WJC camp/tourney and we'll see him come out ahead of where Fleury was in his post-draft WJC.

T2M

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