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2014 - Finland Roster Discussion

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Old
10-26-2013, 07:27 AM
  #626
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
IIRC, Jalonen said he just didn't see a spot for JJ on the team. In his place, Jalonen took along one of his favorites from Europe. Pretty much the entire team underperformed in Vancouver despite the good end result, so I doubt Jussi being there would have made much of a difference in the end. But yes, he should have been on that team.
Jalonen did a relatively unorthodox thing after the games though, as he publicly admitted that leaving Jokinen out of the squad was a mistake.

I think it became glaringly clear over the games that there was a major rift between the players and the management, the former didn't simply fully trust the latter - and leaving out an obvious player who should have been there only deepened that distrust. So Jokinen's absence may have had an effect on the performance after all.

Kummola probably thought it would have looked bad if he sacked yet another head coach after that whole Summanen debacle, so he tried to quell the flames by sacking the assistants instead. After all, many thought that Dufva had something to do with Immonen making the team, and Lehkonen simply wasn't up to speed while handling the defense. Despite these moves, an obvious rift between NHL's old guard and Jalonen remained, which played a role in the way he picked his players for the rest of his tenure.

Curiously enough, one player who didn't end up harboring bad blood was the one shafted the most - Jussi showed up for the WHC same year when he was available, and again in 2012.

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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
If Jalonen was still the coach, the Sochi team would look very different too. You could forget about all the old guys from the NHL, none of them would be on the team, with the exception of possibly Timonen and Salo. Players like Karalahti and Nummelin would have been out of the question as well. I also believe he would have favored prime-aged KHL defensemen over NHL youngsters like Määttä and Ristolainen. Barkov would still have been in the running though.
This made me humor myself a little. The team according to Jalonen would probably look something like this:

Rask (Niemi)

Lepistö - Hietanen
Määttä - Vatanen
Väänänen - Järvinen
Kukkonen - Melart

Filppula - M.Koivu - Ruutu
Jokinen - Kontiola - Aaltonen
Korpikoski - Immonen - Granlund
Komarov - Kapanen - Joensuu

Barkov as an extra forward.


I sweeped technically all of the old guard out, including Timonen and Salo. I rationalized however, that it'd look bad if Jalonen only had Vatanen to pick from the NHL, so Määttä would enter the table here after all. RR's status is more questionable, as I think it's questionable even now. He hasn't fully made the Sabres squad, but the management isn't completely willing to send him back to TPS either.

On forwards, Koivu, Selänne and OJ would obviously be no-shows. I also dumped Lehterä, because he couldn't make squat under him. While Erkka said he didn't really change the Lions' playstyle, it was obvious on the EHT that he had made some adjustments, that especially seemed to fit Lehterä.

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10-26-2013, 07:30 AM
  #627
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
This made me humor myself a little. The team according to Jalonen would probably look something like this:
I'm pretty sure that Pihlström would be a lock.

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10-26-2013, 07:42 AM
  #628
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Not having Jussi Jokinen in Vancouver was Jalonens biggest national team coaching error bar none. Not was he our top player at that point but it also escalated media bombardment towards Jukka which we still talk about that he had bad relationships or no authority over our star NHL players.

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10-26-2013, 09:26 AM
  #629
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People here have made 20 or 30 different lineups here but i want to hear which 3 players you guys DONT want to see in the team for reason or other:
mine would be
Olli Jokinen,
Ville Leino &
Niklas Hagman

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Old
10-26-2013, 10:57 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
People here have made 20 or 30 different lineups here but i want to hear which 3 players you guys DONT want to see in the team for reason or other
This depends mostly for the role planned for 'em. While OJ has currently no room in my projections, him making it in wouldn't be a disaster. It might reek of favoritism, but regardless, I think he could execute the 2C/3C role if placed upon him.

Hagman and Leino appear to have slim chances as it is, but again it depends on the role. Pikku-Hakki would be a no go as a offensive forward, but might be decent enough as a 4th line winger or extra - even if it would be another case of playing the favorites.


My main fears are within the defense. Many people seem to be infatuated with Nummelin and/or Karalahti, but I want those two nowhere near this squad. Don't get me wrong, when it comes to generating offense, those two are still as good as they come and could definitely show some tricks someone like Lepistö can't do. But the main job of a d-man, no matter how offensively minded, is to be at least adequate in the own zone. And this is something those two are clearly starting to struggle with, even more than usual. And if this is visible in Liiga, it's truly a reason to worry. If someone like Antti Aarnio can just dangle around 'em and laugh as he goes, I don't even dare think how much of a challenge they'd prove to Ovechkin or Crosby.

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10-26-2013, 11:26 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
People here have made 20 or 30 different lineups here but i want to hear which 3 players you guys DONT want to see in the team for reason or other:
mine would be
Olli Jokinen,
Ville Leino &
Niklas Hagman

Ville Leino - I just don't his skills fitting it really. Maybe if a top centre is injured and he can play in the middle.

Ilari Melart - I like this guy but brainfarts need to go. I'd rather have someone less physical who understands the game better. I'd love for him to be on the team later on in his career.

Sean Bergenheim - Love the guy and what he brings to the ice. He seems a bit troubled and needs to focus on other things.

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10-26-2013, 12:26 PM
  #632
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Yeah right. When Canadas form will just become better and better during the tournament, like it always becomes as long as the team is well chosen, i'm having great trouble seeing you guys beating them in a final. Sweden probably wont beat them, and Russia becomes just another factor lowering even our chance to win it all to like 15 percent. You guys have like a 5 percent chance, getting a medal at all is probably 25 percent at most.
The easiest way to acknowledge how much of a crapshoot one single tournament is, just have a look at the 2006 OG again.
What exactly were the chances pre-tournament that:

- Sweden loses vs Slovakia in the preliminaries, then faces Switzerland in the QF-s
Probably any bookie would have given you the odds 100:1 or at least 75:1

or:

- Sweden loses vs Slovakia in the preliminaries, does not face a North American team in the playoffs and wins the tournament
Probably any bookie would have given you the odds 500:1 or at least 250:1

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10-26-2013, 01:39 PM
  #633
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And, TEAM CHEMISTRY means everything during these ca 3 OG weeks.

There is no possible way to predict how well (or bad) this works out for the teams. If you have any sort of trouble in this section, it probably means that your chances to win a championship (or even a medal) is cut down to practically 0%.

Since this is totally unpredictable, people who only stare at how many NHL players/stars each team has, could be really shocked again 2014, if e.g. Russia loses to Switzerland in the QF-s or Slovakia beats Sweden again in the QF-s, etc.


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10-27-2013, 05:51 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by glassbangers View Post
Valtteri Filppula - Mikko Koivu - Jussi Jokinen
Tuomo Ruutu - Aleksander Barkov - Lauri Korpikoski
Mikael Granlund - Olli Jokinen - Teemu Selänne
Jesse Joensuu - Saku Koivu - Sean Bergenheim

Kimmo Timonen - Olli Määttä
Janne Niskala - Sami Salo
Sami Lepistö - Sami Vatanen

Tuukka Rask (Antti Niemi)
This except Komarov instead of Joensuu and Väänänen instead of Lepistö. Lines can be mixed a bit but otherwise I think that atleast the right forwards and goalies are in. Defence is hard to predict. Hopefully everyone stays healthy.

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10-27-2013, 06:16 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by JabbaJabba View Post
This except Komarov instead of Joensuu and Väänänen instead of Lepistö. Lines can be mixed a bit but otherwise I think that atleast the right forwards and goalies are in. Defence is hard to predict. Hopefully everyone stays healthy.
I'd say Väänänen instead of Niskala. You obviously haven't been following how Niskala's been playing this season. Down right abysmal. There's something seriously wrong with the guy. He has only made 0+2 in roughly 20 games so far, and clocks barely 10 minutes a night.

Lepistö, however, has been one of the key two-way guys for his own team, and while he's not exactly been racking 'em up either, is at least on steady 0.5ppg pace.

Of course, a player can be abysmal in his club team and be good on NT, so we might have to hold the final judgment if they're going head-to-head at Karjala Tournament.


I'd also say that both Lehterä and Kontiola are currently ahead of OJ in every other department except fame and experience. I've no aversion towards Jokinen making the team, but he needs to have more to show for it than simply being Olli-MFN-Jokinen.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-27-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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10-27-2013, 08:50 AM
  #636
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Yes dont count Niskala out yet. People have been placing Tuomo Ruutu and Sean Bergenheim from hospital condition to the team for ages now so give Janne time to prove also. If his on form gets to play and is healthy should be in the team because his that good.

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10-27-2013, 09:03 AM
  #637
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The forwards:

J.Jokinen - Koivu - Filppula
Ruutu - Kontiola - Selänne
Granlund - S.Koivu - Korpikoski
Komarov - Barkov - Joensuu

13th Lehterä and 14th Hartikainen

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10-27-2013, 09:07 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by Staberg View Post
The forwards:

J.Jokinen - Koivu - Filppula
Ruutu - Kontiola - Selänne
Granlund - S.Koivu - Korpikoski
Komarov - Barkov - Joensuu

13th Lehterä and 14th Hartikainen
Not bad from a swede i would imagine lehterä and kontiola swopping places specially after how Jori perforrmed in the czech eht earlier this fall under erkka. and i hope hartikainen doesnt make it.

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10-27-2013, 09:25 AM
  #639
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Not bad from a swede i would imagine lehterä and kontiola swopping places specially after how Jori perforrmed in the czech eht earlier this fall under erkka. and i hope hartikainen doesnt make it.
No way Hartikainen makes it, not even close.. if that kind of player is needed, Pihlström will make it first. But not that bad line up.

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10-27-2013, 10:10 AM
  #640
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Not bad from a swede i would imagine lehterä and kontiola swopping places specially after how Jori perforrmed in the czech eht earlier this fall under erkka. and i hope hartikainen doesnt make it.
Yes but playing 3 good games in the EHT is one thing, winning IIHF Best Forward at the World Championships, ahead of guys like Stastny and Stamkos, is another.

I think Kontiola will play as the #2C based on merit. It would be well deserved if he does.


Last edited by TheGoldenJet: 10-27-2013 at 10:23 AM.
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10-27-2013, 10:28 AM
  #641
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Not bad from a swede i would imagine lehterä and kontiola swopping places specially after how Jori perforrmed in the czech eht earlier this fall under erkka. and i hope hartikainen doesnt make it.
Well, thanks! I did remember Kontiola's incredible WC tournament and had not really knowledge about the Finnish players performance in the czech tournament. But I understand that it is important to do good games under the actual coach and then Lehterä is probably lying plus on Kontiola at the moment. However, I assume it will come another time to shine for them in the Karjala Tournament.

Regarding Hartikainen, I just see him as a good reserve while he is a natural winger, aggressive and has size.

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10-27-2013, 10:29 AM
  #642
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J.Jokinen - M.Koivu - T.Ruutu (What i wanted to achieve was: Grit, Finesse, Skill, Shooting ability)

Granlund - V.Filppula - Bergenheim (Same here; Grit, Finesse, Skill and Shooting ability)

Joensuu - Barkov - Selänne (Barkov needs to be here to slow down the game and bring skill to this line. Selänne can still put it in the net and Joensuu brings grit and nowadays speed)

Hartikainen - S.Koivu - Komarov (Veteran presence along with GRIT and skill to finish)

Who i really wanted to get in where; Jori Lehterä, Petri Kontiola, Sakari Salminen, Olli Jokinen and Ville Leino but i thought that we needed more grit/speed. I'd propably take Petri Kontiola as 13th forward if the coaching staff decided to take 7 D's

Salo - Vatanen
Timonen - Määttä
Väänänen - Hietanen
Lepistö
, Topi Jaakola, Tuukka Mäntylä, Ilkka Heikkinen and Rasmus Ristolainen

(With Lydman&Pitkänen the D would look somewhat decent)

Rask/Niemi/Rinne

(Goalies all have Vezina potential, propably the best trio in the world)

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10-27-2013, 10:35 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
Yes but playing 3 good games in the EHT is one thing, winning IIHF Best Forward at the World Championships, ahead of guys like Stastny and Stamkos, is another.

I think Kontiola will play as the #2C based on merit. It would be well deserved if he does.
Only Lehterä has been far more than a 3-game EHT miracle. He's currently better than a PPG player in the KHL, beating guys like Kontiola and Kovalchuk in points - in other words, one of the hottest forwards in the league.

It's expected that Kontiola and Lehterä will both be in the Karjala Tournament, and if Lehterä puts up another showing like he did a couple of months back, he will be very close to pocketing a ticket. Kontiola hasn't been all that bad either and wouldn't mind at all see him making it too, but if you want to see guys based on merit, might as well go with Jokinen.

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Originally Posted by edd1e View Post
Who i really wanted to get in where; Jori Lehterä, Petri Kontiola, Sakari Salminen, Olli Jokinen and Ville Leino but i thought that we needed more grit/speed. I'd propably take Petri Kontiola as 13th forward if the coaching staff decided to take 7 D's
Once again, the player limit has been upped to 25, meaning the teams will consist of 14 forwards and eight d-men, so feel free to fit some of 'em in.

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10-27-2013, 01:14 PM
  #644
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Once again, the player limit has been upped to 25, meaning the teams will consist of 14 forwards and eight d-men, so feel free to fit some of 'em in.
Why i chose Kontiola over Lehterä is solely because he's more versetile. He even has experience of being 4th line center in the national team.

Still it would be Kontiola and propably a winger/center for example V.Leino

If we start to look at the 100% locks to make the team, i see as following (only forwards, D side is far less imaginative):

M.Koivu, T.Ruutu, V.Filppula, Komarov, S.Koivu, Selänne

So, really hard to tell who's going to be there.

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10-27-2013, 01:43 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by edd1e View Post
Why i chose Kontiola over Lehterä is solely because he's more versetile. He even has experience of being 4th line center in the national team.
I didn't mean my comment to you be a Lehterä vs. Kontiola jab, but simply noted that there is no need to wonder the F to D ratio, because all teams are allowed to carry some extra.

I have no issue if Kontiola makes it over Lehterä, if only due to the superb performance last spring. And you are right that he is a tad more versatile (while still not a textbook example of a bottom-six forward). We could say that Lehterä's bit of a high risk - high reward pick. His offensive ceiling is far higher than Kontiola's, but his floor's also lower.


Quote:
Originally Posted by edd1e View Post
If we start to look at the 100% locks to make the team, i see as following (only forwards, D side is far less imaginative):

M.Koivu, T.Ruutu, V.Filppula, Komarov, S.Koivu, Selänne

So, really hard to tell who's going to be there.
I'd say that at this stage, J.Jokinen and Granlund are quite safe bets as well.

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10-27-2013, 02:07 PM
  #646
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Rask/Niemi

Timonen-Salo
Määttä-Vatanen
Väänänen-Hietanen

J Jokinen - M Koivu - Salminen/Selänne
Filppula - Barkov - Selänne/Korpikoski
T Ruutu - Lehterä - Granlund
Komarov - Kontiola - Korpikoski/Joensuu

Just something

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10-27-2013, 03:33 PM
  #647
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Salminen! heh thats a first.

I think north american media or people or infact people outside Finland and Russia dont know much about players like Jori Lehterä. He hasnt had the international exposure or played in NHL to get into radar screens but he is one of the if not the best Center in KHL. I can almost quarantee that best center from KHL is better player than the average 2nd line NHL Center.
His actully been one of the most profilic Finnish players in the world including NHL guys for the last couple of seasons. Now i dont think theres much difference between him and Kontiola as a player level. Its a crapshoot at this point to say which one would be better in that 2nd line spot for sochi or maybe they both make into the lineup as 2nd and 3rd line centers. But i think Jori has that small edge like i mentioned earlier because he did play in that Czech EHT and played darn well for Erkka that can only benefit him. For sure Kontiola was lights out at the World Championships like Jarkko Immonen was back in 2011 but nobodys calling him into the Olympic roster on old merits. If Jori had chosen to play for ST.Louis Blues nobody here would be calling Kontiola to play ahead of him because of his NHL status as sad as that is, even though he might be better player now playing big minutes and producing in KHL instead of playing in the NHL. Leo Komarov did the same he could have stayed in Toronto but he got double the wages and more minutes and responsibility so he chose KHL. The next EHT Karjala Tournament will be big decider for both players if Jori plays just as good as he did in previous tournament i think he will have the spot.

English link about Jori turning ST.Louis Blues offer down
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...tay-in-russia/

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10-27-2013, 04:24 PM
  #648
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Only Lehterä has been far more than a 3-game EHT miracle. He's currently better than a PPG player in the KHL, beating guys like Kontiola and Kovalchuk in points - in other words, one of the hottest forwards in the league.

It's expected that Kontiola and Lehterä will both be in the Karjala Tournament, and if Lehterä puts up another showing like he did a couple of months back, he will be very close to pocketing a ticket. Kontiola hasn't been all that bad either and wouldn't mind at all see him making it too, but if you want to see guys based on merit, might as well go with Jokinen.
Yes but Kovalchuk for one has a better PPG and played quite a few less games at this point. I may be wrong on this but Lehtera does play for the better team in the KHL than Kontiola? Those sort of factors are taken into account when assessing scoring, performance, etc in-league.

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10-27-2013, 05:35 PM
  #649
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I may be wrong on this but Lehtera does play for the better team in the KHL than Kontiola?
You are wrong. Sibir is currently doing better than Traktor, in no small part thanks to Lehterä, but overall Traktor is more prominent of the clubs. They're a regular sight on the KHL playoffs for example, whereas Sibir has only made it a couple of times.

As far as their current rosters go, I'd say they're pretty head-to-head. Neither is however no Dynamo, AK Bars or SKA.


The bottom line is, in the scope of the current KHL, Lehterä is a better forward than Kontiola, hands down. Whether he's a better forward in the NT as well is of course a whole another question, but the way he started under the current coach sure isn't bad.

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10-28-2013, 07:06 AM
  #650
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This entire Lehterä vs. Kontiola debate may end up being meaningless if Erkka doesn't have the heart to leave OJ off the team. At the moment I would say we have 5 better centers than OJ just in the NHL (Saku is better because of his better defensive game IMO), but OJ has improved from last season and with all the history he has with Erkka, I believe it would be a very difficult decision to leave him out. Barkov deserves to be on the team as well, and the Koivus are obviously locks. None of those 4 should play wing, while Granlund and Filppula can and probably will be moved there. Lehterä and Kontiola may thus be battling for a seat in the press box.

Quote:
Jalonen did a relatively unorthodox thing after the games though, as he publicly admitted that leaving Jokinen out of the squad was a mistake.

I think it became glaringly clear over the games that there was a major rift between the players and the management, the former didn't simply fully trust the latter - and leaving out an obvious player who should have been there only deepened that distrust. So Jokinen's absence may have had an effect on the performance after all.

Kummola probably thought it would have looked bad if he sacked yet another head coach after that whole Summanen debacle, so he tried to quell the flames by sacking the assistants instead. After all, many thought that Dufva had something to do with Immonen making the team, and Lehkonen simply wasn't up to speed while handling the defense. Despite these moves, an obvious rift between NHL's old guard and Jalonen remained, which played a role in the way he picked his players for the rest of his tenure.

Curiously enough, one player who didn't end up harboring bad blood was the one shafted the most - Jussi showed up for the WHC same year when he was available, and again in 2012.
Yes, I think it was a bad move from a new coach to leave out an NHL player whose performance would have merited a spot on the team. Hardly the best way to gain trust from the NHL players. But would the team have won gold even with Jussi there? I highly doubt it. Perhaps the performances themselves would have been better, but the result would have been roughly the same.

From what I have gathered, Jalonen hardly got along with any NHL player in Vancouver. It was not just the old guard that had problems with him. I think the difference after Vancouver ended up being that Jalonen did not see the oldies worth trying to get along with, and instead focused on the players who he saw as important. If he had not managed to gain the trust of the younger NHL players, there would have been no gold medal party in Bratislava for Finland.

Here's the team for Karjala tournament: http://www.leijonat.fi/uutiset/tuore...lkistettu.html

Zero surprises there. Getting sick of Tami's love affair with Nummelin though. He said Nummelin's the best dman in Europe. Nummelin used to be a damn good offensive defenseman, that much is true, but these days he has slowed down and his defensive game is below Lüga average. Well, at least Erkka had the good sense not to bring Karalahti.

https://twitter.com/IlkkaPalomaki/st...91038231273472

Erkka believes there will be 7-8 players from Europe on the final team. I would guess 3 forwards & 4-5 defensemen. Komarov, Kontiola/Lehterä (or possibly both, depending on Saku/OJ) for the forwards and then Väänänen, Kukkonen and Lord knows who else for defensemen. I think the dmen from NA are Salo, Timonen, Vatanen and possibly Määttä. I do have to say that if we leave out legit NHL defensemen, regardless of their age, I will not be a happy camper.


Last edited by Gaps: 10-28-2013 at 08:01 AM.
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