HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Around the NHL II - 11/8: Oilers Go Insane.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-27-2013, 11:29 PM
  #451
Cake or Death
.
 
Cake or Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 2,081
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Worth a first and a second? Considering Vanek is a UFA at the end of the year and there's already been talk of him wanting to go to Minnesota?
Considering where the Isles might end up drafting in the first round, I'd sure say so. Still a young team and looks to me they kept the important pieces, so why not take a shot at it? The Isles are a lot more attractive destination right now. Playoffs, JT, move to Brooklyn - all of which, for Vanek, are major upgrades from where he just came from.

Cake or Death is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 12:07 AM
  #452
Raspewtin
Early To The Party
 
Raspewtin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Howard Beach, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cake or Death View Post
Considering where the Isles might end up drafting in the first round, I'd sure say so. Still a young team and looks to me they kept the important pieces, so why not take a shot at it? The Isles are a lot more attractive destination right now. Playoffs, JT, move to Brooklyn - all of which, for Vanek, are major upgrades from where he just came from.
"Might end up drafting". That's the kicker for me. The Isles made the playoffs last year on a really hot streak by Nabby late in the season, in a full season they wouldn't have made it. They lost to the Penguins who couldn't stop a beach ball (I really thought they could've won that series) and Nabby being exhausted + defense was very obviously the problem. They didn't address that, and now that they've got a full season and it will be harder to make the playoffs, I don't see them doing it again. Their defense is ****ing putrid, I don't trust anyone on that team that isn't Hamonic, MacDonald, or Visnovsky. They had very valuable assets that they could've traded for a really good d-man, but went with a forward, and proceeded to lose those assets. Now if they want D they might need to trade some prospects.

Also, I know they can trade Vanek at the deadline, but think about who they'd be trading him to. A cup contender, incredibly likely. Because as someone else said, this is a move a team looking to win the cup this season would do, not a team that's multiple pieces away. They essentially replace their 10-15th overall with a 24th-30th overall. That's a huge dropoff, especially because this draft blows. And not for nothing, but I don't see a chance in hell Vanek resigns with them.

Raspewtin is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 12:41 AM
  #453
Schwartzee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 74
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Championship View Post
I think if you had to put a percentage on it, it'd guess that there is less than a 25% chance he re-signs.
Like Visnovsky and Nabokov?

Schwartzee is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 12:54 AM
  #454
Kvashinator12
Registered User
 
Kvashinator12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: United States
Country: United States
Posts: 7,022
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Kvashinator12
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Worth a first and a second? Considering Vanek is a UFA at the end of the year and there's already been talk of him wanting to go to Minnesota?
Worth a first and a second? Two people who haven't even sniffed nhl ice or even close to it. Only here do players who've never played in the nhl hold value of an nhl proven star

Kvashinator12 is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 01:03 AM
  #455
RangerBlue62
Smoothies! Who's in?
 
RangerBlue62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartzee View Post
Like Visnovsky and Nabokov?
Two 37 year olds who wouldn't even report to the team at first? Yeah, just like them.

RangerBlue62 is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 02:33 AM
  #456
theJUMPER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12 View Post
Worth a first and a second? Two people who haven't even sniffed nhl ice or even close to it. Only here do players who've never played in the nhl hold value of an nhl proven star
I would think that this fan base would be more cynical about the value of draft picks.

Especially with our history of drafting, or when dealing picks, flips a 2nd, 3rd & 5th for a guy with zero goals.

theJUMPER is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 02:43 AM
  #457
Carlos Ranger
Zucc-a-Rella
 
Carlos Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,155
vCash: 67
this is gonna be Ryan Smyth all over again for the islanders

Carlos Ranger is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 03:31 AM
  #458
Sticky Fingers
Registered User
 
Sticky Fingers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cake or Death View Post
Not sure if some people are just looking at stats and thinking Moulson and Vanek are close, because they're not. If you're the Islanders, and you can trade a UFA that looks like he probably won't resign for a guy of Vanek's caliber, and lose a 2nd and mid-tier first, how do you not make that trade? You make that trade and take a shot at re-signing Vanek. Understandable move for both teams.
On spot. Vanek is a superior player, no doubt. And I think it's quite a big chance he resigns, good upcoming team, play with Tavares, NY, new arena. What is not to like?

Sticky Fingers is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 05:43 AM
  #459
scott99
Registered User
 
scott99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Why is it "Martin Friggen Erat" ? He's a really good player. I thought it was a stupid trade on GMGM's part but he's not a waste of space or anything.
Martin Erat, he of the 0 goals and 3 assists in 11 games ? Yeah he's a REALLY good player. Meanwhile, though he isn't tearing up the league, Filip Forsberg has 1 goal and 3 assists for 4 points in 9 games. He is only 19 and has a ton of upside.

scott99 is online now  
Old
10-28-2013, 05:43 AM
  #460
iLandHer
Registered User
 
iLandHer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I always thought Moulson was very underrated. If Buffalo wants to flip him, flip him to us. Doubt seriously he stays in Buffalo long.

On the other hand I never really liked Vanek.

The Islanders are taking the very real chance of breaking up a young group that has grown up together. Sometimes that works (i.e. 1980 Islanders) More often it doesn't.

This looks to me like one of those trades that may end up not helping either team.
Moulson is bad everywhere other than 10 feet of ice. It's an important 10 feet, but he provides nothing else. at all.

Also, Moulson isn't and wasn't a core piece to the long term success of the franchise. He wasn't going to be resigned for the ~5mil he'll be looking for this offseason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Worth a first and a second? Considering Vanek is a UFA at the end of the year and there's already been talk of him wanting to go to Minnesota?
Talk is talk. Minnesota isn't going to have a lot of room with the cap and the Isles can offer Vanek more money and years if they really want to.

Moulson was going to be a guaranteed walk at the end of the year, so now it's an upgrade mid-season and they have the chance to re-sign him. Also, I wouldn't underestimate the connection Grabner and Vanek could have with it being an Olympic year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cake or Death View Post
Not sure if some people are just looking at stats and thinking Moulson and Vanek are close, because they're not. If you're the Islanders, and you can trade a UFA that looks like he probably won't resign for a guy of Vanek's caliber, and lose a 2nd and mid-tier first, how do you not make that trade? You make that trade and take a shot at re-signing Vanek. Understandable move for both teams.
You're absolutely right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos Ranger View Post
this is gonna be Ryan Smyth all over again for the islanders
He was traded for using prospects that never amounted to anything. I'd make that trade again in a heartbeat. Plus, this is a lot longer a stretch of time for Vanek to be playing with the Isles and a much different team.

iLandHer is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 05:44 AM
  #461
scott99
Registered User
 
scott99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
On spot. Vanek is a superior player, no doubt. And I think it's quite a big chance he resigns, good upcoming team, play with Tavares, NY, new arena. What is not to like?
Finally someone who actually thought before posting.

scott99 is online now  
Old
10-28-2013, 05:44 AM
  #462
SoftEuro4thLiner
Registered User
 
SoftEuro4thLiner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,441
vCash: 50
Risky trade for NYI imo. Vanek wasn't going to come cheap, alright, but the UFA status after this season is of concern. However, you'll have to assume that Wang is willing to throw some serious money at Vanek, otherwise this would just be short-sighted.

From an Austrian standpoint, good for Vanek to get out of Buffalo but I just threw up in my mouth a little. The bandwagoners will now go and be Islanders fans and I'll have to hear how much better the NYI are than the Rangers now that they have Vanek in every second discussion about hockey. Time to get the booze ready.

SoftEuro4thLiner is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 06:01 AM
  #463
Championship*
#Joel&Ellie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartzee View Post
Like Visnovsky and Nabokov?
Those two players were UFA-To-Be's?

Situations aren't simliar.

Championship* is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 06:20 AM
  #464
Glennsoe
Horndog
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Norway
Posts: 4,004
vCash: 500
SJ are fun to watch, mad skills on that team.

Oh and after seeing EDM's last 2 games I gotta say that Yakupov doesn't play D..

He backskates with the worse of them, and while there He seems lost..

Glennsoe is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 06:26 AM
  #465
MrEctions
Willy Nilly
 
MrEctions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clinton, Ny
Country: United States
Posts: 4,454
vCash: 500
Gonna laugh when he walks at the end of the year.

MrEctions is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 07:31 AM
  #466
Bullseyes
Registered User
 
Bullseyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartzee View Post
Like Visnovsky and Nabokov?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
On spot. Vanek is a superior player, no doubt. And I think it's quite a big chance he resigns, good upcoming team, play with Tavares, NY, new arena. What is not to like?
I'm not saying he won't re-sign, but he has strong ties to Minnesota and as we've seen, those ties can win out over a lot of other things. I wouldn't be shocked if that's where he signs.

Bullseyes is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 07:45 AM
  #467
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Buffalo don't expect Moulson to sign, they are into this for picks. Vanek might stay, if money are good. Theyre NYC team in years to come. Plus Snow might go after Lundqvist.

94now is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 07:51 AM
  #468
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,623
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
I think I like this deal better for the Sabres. The Isles are gambling that Vanek can attain the chemistry with Taveras that Moulson did. The Sabres get good assets and a player they can move at the deadline easier than they could have Vanek, and get additional assets.
Tavares is an elite-level talent who automatically creates the mythical chemistry.

No idea about the long-term, but short-term, the Isles crushed it.

chosen is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 08:02 AM
  #469
Championship*
#Joel&Ellie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseyes View Post
I'm not saying he won't re-sign, but he has strong ties to Minnesota and as we've seen, those ties can win out over a lot of other things. I wouldn't be shocked if that's where he signs.
Reminds me of the Brad Richards situation. Everyone said he was coming here, and in the end, he took less money to come here. I think where there is smoke, there's fire in these situations.

Championship* is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 08:02 AM
  #470
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,473
vCash: 500
Really good trade for both sides, IMO. Islanders added an elite talent to compliment Tavares. I realize Moulson and JT had good chemistry, but Vanek is a lock for 30+ goals basically on his own, let alone if he and JT mesh well. They gave up what is likely to be a mid-range 1st, and a 2nd in 2015 which is hard to project. They have a great group of prospects already, so missing that first isn't a huge deal. If by some chance they fall on their faces, they can always flip Vanek to recoup some of their lost assets.

Buffalo loads up on picks, and can also flip Moulson later in the season to add even more pieces for the rebuild.

Like it for both teams. Especially if the Isles can re-sign Vanek.


Last edited by Trxjw: 10-28-2013 at 08:33 AM.
Trxjw is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 08:14 AM
  #471
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,459
vCash: 500
Sadly, I'm forced to watch the Sabres up here. Vanek is a pretty pathetic excuse for a hockey player 9 games out of every 10.

Maybe the Island will invigorate him.

GWOW is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 08:28 AM
  #472
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,821
vCash: 500
Awards:
i think thats a damn good trade for the Isles. Biggest loser in the deal is Moulson.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 08:44 AM
  #473
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Really good trade for both sides, IMO. Islanders added an elite talent to compliment Tavares. I realize Moulson and JT had good chemistry, but Vanek is a lock for 30+ goals basically on his own, let alone if he and JT mesh well. They gave up what is likely to be a mid-range 1st, and a 2nd in 2015 which is hard to project. They have a great group of prospects already, so missing that first isn't a huge deal. If by some chance they fall on their faces, they can always flip Vanek to recoup some of their lost assets.

Buffalo loads up on picks, and can also flip Moulson later in the season to add even more pieces for the rebuild.

Like it for both teams. Especially if the Isles can re-sign Vanek.
I realize that Vanek is the more dynamic player, but, is the production that much more by adding Vanek, especially since Vanek is prone to taking nights off. I think the Sabres did well. The Islander aspect is still up for grabs. And half this board would be saying 'same old Rangers if they made this type of deal.

jas is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 08:57 AM
  #474
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,473
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
I realize that Vanek is the more dynamic player, but, is the production that much more by adding Vanek, especially since Vanek is prone to taking nights off. I think the Sabres did well. The Islander aspect is still up for grabs. And half this board would be saying 'same old Rangers if they made this type of deal.
If nothing else, it adds a legitimate threat to that top line, which should give JT more space and time. Moulson, on his best nights, was the ultimate complimentary player. He made a living off of burying chances generated from Tavares. Vanek, on the other hand, can generate chances himself. Both players are known for a lack of consistency, but Vanek should have the upper hand given that he's coming to a team that is on the upswing and is getting out of a very ****** situation in Buffalo.

I get what you're saying about the 'same old Rangers', but in this case it's the Islanders signaling that they're moving out of their rebuild and they want to start contending each year. That says a lot to the fans as well as the players. In this instance, it'd equate to Sather coming out of his hole and signaling a rebuild by dealing off a lot of mistakes and core pieces he's added over the last few years. It's a big change for the Islanders mentality.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
10-28-2013, 08:58 AM
  #475
Championship*
#Joel&Ellie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
The issue here isn't the price paid (Getting Vanek without giving up Strome or Reinhart or Pulock was a great move). It's that:

1)If he doesn't re-sign
2)Isles trade a strength for a strength and don't address their more important needs
3)Vanek is a known band-aid boy
4)Anything at least 1 playoff round win

At what point does Nabokov start to break down again? Not much help in the wings on that front, and they've now expended a valuable asset (1st rounder) in order to fix something that wasn't broke.

He will be a great player for them, but there is a gigantic risk involved here.

Championship* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.