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2014 - Finland Roster Discussion

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Old
10-28-2013, 07:00 AM
  #651
Staberg
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The defenders:

Timonen - Vatanen
Salo - Määttä
Lepistö - Laakso
Ristolainen - Jaakola

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10-28-2013, 07:13 AM
  #652
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UU.. 7 to 8 players from europe. thats a good hint from erkka can narrow the players down pretty well.

i would quess 4 forwards: Komarov, Lehterä, Kontiola, Pihlström

and then the 4 d-men atleast: Väänänen lock in em

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Old
10-28-2013, 07:14 AM
  #653
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^7 or 8 so Lepistö,Hietanen,Kukkonen,Väänänen,Komarov, Kontiola or Lehterä, Salminen or Aaltonen with an outside change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Staberg View Post
The defenders:

Timonen - Vatanen
Salo - Määttä
Lepistö - Laakso
Ristolainen - Jaakola
Laakso won't be on the team.

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Old
10-28-2013, 08:09 AM
  #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
This entire Lehterä vs. Kontiola debate may end up being meaningless if Erkka doesn't have the heart to leave OJ off the team.
Apart from letting those two make their case right under Erkka's eyes, there is another thing that kinda makes me hope he's not as infatuated with OJ as it would appear. I mean, many people recall him being a sentimental fool who often picked players who had been there before, just like Ara did. But there was actually a difference between their sentimentality. Ara had his full-blown favorites he always cut some extra slack, no matter what. But Erkka actually made conservative picks because he liked to play on existing chemistries. A good example from the days past is Jukka Hentunen. He wouldn't have made half the squads he did if N.Kapanen wouldn't have been there.

Now, if a ton of guys whom OJ played with back in the day were making the team, there'd be a decent chance he could ride in too on their coattails. But the thing is, most of old OJ's familiars will be off the team. Peltonen's obviously not going to make it, Hagman looks slim too, etc. And what remains of the younger breed left from those days will be heavily linked to Mikko in this squad. And the brand new candidates like Granlund, Aaltonen and who else are far more familiar with Lehterä and Konna than they are with OJ.


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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
From what I have gathered, Jalonen hardly got along with any NHL player in Vancouver. It was not just the old guard that had problems with him. I think the difference after Vancouver ended up being that Jalonen did not see the oldies worth trying to get along with, and instead focused on the players who he saw as important. If he had not managed to gain the trust of the younger NHL players, there would have been no gold medal party in Bratislava for Finland.
Agreed. As a matter of fact, Jalonen's career was pretty much hanging on a very thin thread, saved in the end by the fact that he was able to befriend just one player. I don't have to say who that is. The old guard was pretty much lost to Jalonen, but he was able to salvage the trust of the key guy of the younger generation. And when said player followed, the rest of the new guard fell in line as well. It was by means no simple sweet talk when Jalonen was singing praises to him after the Bratislava beatdown.

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Well, at least Erkka had the good sense not to bring Karalahti.
You know, part of me hopes that Jere would have been there. Because now, people will keep guessing his worth based on Lüga performance alone. For the same reason it's good that Nummelin made it too. Would have been best to just write him off, but at least Erkka won't have completely rosy picture of his adequacy. And since it's a squad where technically every d-man is a candidate, his past performances won't help, if enough of 'em end up doing better than him. In other words, you couldn't be hoping for better grounds for a relatively fair assessment of his current shape.

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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
Erkka believes there will be 7-8 players from Europe on the final team. I would guess 3 forwards & 4-5 defensemen. Komarov, Kontiola/Lehterä (or possibly both, depending on Saku/OJ) for the forwards and then Väänänen, Kukkonen and Lord knows who else for defensemen. I think the dmen from NA are Salo, Timonen, Vatanen and possibly Määttä. I do have to say that if we leave out legit NHL defensemen, regardless of their age, I will not be a happy camper.
Let's see... Komarov's a lock. That's one. Probably he's eyeing at least one of Kontiola and Lehterä. Maybe both. Two, maybe three. Finally, some winger might slink in as well - even if everyone else is healthy. Aaltonen's probably the guy whom most would guess, but let's keep in mind that there's almost always someone who blindsides completely. It could be that someone like Salminen or Osala - who have both done good - is a far stronger candidate in Erkka's mind than he is in ours. So that's 3-4 forwards.

Defense. I wonder if Erkka's already written off our AHLers, Järvinen and Melart. If he has, that means the wholesome of bottom four will be from Europe. That means Väänänen, Kukkonen, Lepistö and Laakso/Jaakola. I want to believe that the top-4 is not breakable without injuries on the NHL side. Our eyes are now on Määttä, but looks like Ristolainen is going to stick too. In any case, the squad will very like have around four Euro d-men - simply because we don't have any better available. Add those 3-4 forwards to it, and you've got 7-8 players.

Finally, the goalies. I'd say it's pretty much a given that the playing tandem will be two of Rask-Rinne-Niemi-Lehtonen. But out of them, only Andy has presented willingness to be 3rd string. So what happens if Niemi is deemed as one that should be playing? Of course, there are still the likes of Bäcks, Rämö and Raanta, but I guess it's not so far-fetched that our third goalie will be from this side of the pond.

So there. While seven alone arguably sounds like a tall number, I could actually see us having as much as nine players - even in a scenario where everyone is healthy.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-28-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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Old
10-28-2013, 11:30 AM
  #655
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Here is the story where that 7-8 players is ripped away from, and in it Erkka says that his current squad, which mostly consists of seasoned players, would have that many guys from Europe. He says he hasn't had much time to keep an eye on some of the youngsters we have in North America, but intends to rectify that soon.

So the 7-8 Euros is similar "right now" roster projection as we've been making here. For example, very few of us would have thought that Määttä is viable only a month ago. So what's on Erkka's mind right now and what it will be two months from now can be two wholly different things.


If we are to look at it conservatively....

Rask (Lehtonen)

Timonen - Salo
Lepistö - Vatanen
Nummelin - Väänänen
Kukkonen - Laakso

Filppula - M.Koivu - Ruutu
Granlund - Lehterä - J.Jokinen
Korpikoski - S.Koivu - Selänne
Komarov - Kapanen - Joensuu

That group has five d-men and three forwards from Europe. Erkka will likely make a new assessment after the Karjala Tournament, according to who raises their stock there and who doesn't. And more will come when he heads across the pond and visits the new faces there. It's a work in progress, and not having some youngsters in the current projection doesn't mean they can't break their way into the final squad.

We're pretty much making our own projections based on the assumption that our preferred players are in good or better shape when the games start. For example, we all hope and believe that Määttä, and perhaps Ristolainen too, will have become solid NHL squadies by then and are ready to stop all the Crosbys and Ovechkins thrown in their lane. Erkka can't do that. He'll have to consider things based on what has already happened, not what is expected to happen.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-28-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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Old
10-28-2013, 12:26 PM
  #656
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Things change fast in hockey. Many people who follow NHL think that Barkov is already better center in NHL than Granlund. Now does it make his chances for the olympics better than granlunds no idea.

File is right not many people in finland or anywhere would have screamed Määttä to the team 1½ months ago but his been a real stud in the NHL. His impressed his managers his coaching staff his players and the fans and did the impossible and continues to play for Pittsburgh even after Letang returned because his been that impressive. His play level can drop because his so young player but when people want him to the olympics they look at how well his doing in the NHL right now and rightly want him in the team like Jussi Jokinen wanted aswell. Is Olli Määttä better player already than say Sami Lepistö? thats hard to say but its possible and he could be given the way his been so far.

Rasmus is for me different case sure his playing in the NHL but his much more error prone and hasnt yet proven to be true NHL player despite playing there. There are better options to sochi than Rasmus his only in the mix for me because his right hand shot and theres not many quality defenders that we posses have that. Summarum i hope Erkka and Kurri stay alert because things change fast. And i hope theyre critical of the old guard aswell like player Tuomo Ruutu who hasnt showed anything of his former great yet in the NHL this season.

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Old
10-29-2013, 03:09 AM
  #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
Things change fast in hockey. Many people who follow NHL think that Barkov is already better center in NHL than Granlund. Now does it make his chances for the olympics better than granlunds no idea.

File is right not many people in finland or anywhere would have screamed Määttä to the team 1½ months ago but his been a real stud in the NHL. His impressed his managers his coaching staff his players and the fans and did the impossible and continues to play for Pittsburgh even after Letang returned because his been that impressive. His play level can drop because his so young player but when people want him to the olympics they look at how well his doing in the NHL right now and rightly want him in the team like Jussi Jokinen wanted aswell. Is Olli Määttä better player already than say Sami Lepistö? thats hard to say but its possible and he could be given the way his been so far.

Rasmus is for me different case sure his playing in the NHL but his much more error prone and hasnt yet proven to be true NHL player despite playing there. There are better options to sochi than Rasmus his only in the mix for me because his right hand shot and theres not many quality defenders that we posses have that. Summarum i hope Erkka and Kurri stay alert because things change fast. And i hope theyre critical of the old guard aswell like player Tuomo Ruutu who hasnt showed anything of his former great yet in the NHL this season.
The old guard not getting their share of criticism is what I fear when Erkka is handling things. The kids' performances will be dissected very thoroughly while vets can get away with a lot more. I can live with this only if the vets in question are ones known for recent excellent performances, but not with players like Nummelin or even someone like OJ. If you were good 5-10 years ago but now your game is full of holes, you should not make the team over any kid with better recent showings. If you have two players who are equally good, I can see why taking the one with more experience would be more sensible, but what if the younger one with less experience is also the better player currently? In that case favoring experience would be wrong IMO. They key is what those players are now, not what they were 5 years ago or what they will be 5 years from now. Erkka already pulled out the latter point, but I need to see he is serious about the first part of that as well.

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10-29-2013, 06:12 AM
  #658
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While I generally see Erkka's point that the Olympics are generally not a tournament for the inexperienced, and I can especially understand how putting a full unit of them out there at once can be a big risk, but does that really mean you have to totally go to the other end of the spectrum and demand that every player of the squad is not a rookie?

You don't really find a coach who's more seasoned than Erkka. Yet when I look at his comments, I get the feeling that doesn't he really realize that players come in different size, shapes, their fitness and skill levels and overall hockey sense vary greatly. Some may have certain aspects off the charts, while others are far below the average required for a tournament like this. And no matter how much experience a player has, he can't use it to make up for shortcomings in those departments.

Don't get me wrong, experience is an important quality. It's a highly important team quality. Having a squad make-up that can allow you to have enough experience to throw on the ice in any situation is a desirable spot to be for any coach. However, that does not mean one should demand a certain level of experience from every individual player - especially if that means major sacrifices to those departments you can't make up with experience.

I got extremely uneasy when I perused through Erkka's comments yesterday. I'm fully aware that sometimes a man can simply pick his words badly and the media - especially in Internet journalism - is simply publishing a lift here and there, which may further stilt ones meaning, but still. When asked for his thoughts specifically concerning the youths, simply saying "every player who can prove they can play on high enough level is a viable candidate, no matter their age or origins" would have sufficed. But instead, Erkka said something along the lines: "They're the guys on the bubble. We need to meet them, see them play, and while it is not impossible to make it without previous experience from major tournaments, one needs to put up good showings."

Does that sound like a coach who's seriously considering them? Not really. Sounds more like a coach who's paying the young ones some lip service, but is simply looking for any excuse to drop them out.

I've always thought what makes some coaches overvalue experience as an attribute. Sometimes it feels like a simple excuse. The truth could be, that you're thinking along the lines of having a certain squad with certain players. Sure, some of them may be a bit past their prime, but you still know 'em and have good memories of them. Now, all of a sudden, out of the left field there's some new kid doing some ripples. He looks fast, skilled, and ready. And he's threatening the very slot you had, in your mind, already dealt to a more familiar guy. Yet you just don't have the heart to leave the old veteran out. You let sentimentality get on the way of reason.

A coach who thinks like that is not cut out for his job. And I really hope Erkka is not really a coach like that, because he can be down right brilliant in every other aspect of it.

In the end, it's a call no one should make all by himself. And I think there's one kind of a guy who knows what it takes even better than the coach - a player who's been in a spot like that before. In the end, they're the guys who will be heroes or losers based on the outcome. Not the coach.

So let's take Määttä for example. Jussi Jokinen has been to the Olympics before, and he's been to numerous World Championships. And for technically every instance, he's been a top-six player for Team Finland. He sure should know what it's like to be out there when the game is on the line. And if he says a kid like Määttä should make it, it's really an opinion no one should argue with.

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10-29-2013, 03:29 PM
  #659
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To me it sounds that because of the good performances the youngsters have put up lately, Erkka has been thrown into a new situation. It is easy to pick your old, seasoned favorites when you have no real competition. Sure, you would still have a bunch of decent KHL players vying for the spots, but now we have teenagers in the NHL. How many head coaches of the Finnish NT have been put into a situation like this before?

I think basically he had it all figured out in his head in the summer: use the old guys, nobody will crucify you if you leave out some younger KHL players. But leaving out players like a kid who made the Pittsburgh Penguins keep him on the team by playing himself into their top 6 D, although it would have been easier for them to send him back to his junior team (and has Jussi Jokinen lobbying him to the team), that might raise some eyebrows, so he is left with nothing but excuses. An experienced coach like Erkka should be able to adapt to this new turn of events and not hide behind excuses. Face the music and adjust your list. If he is unable to do this, then I am indeed very glad he will be gone after the season.

Perhaps all Erkka sees in the youngsters is the risk instead of the chance. Sad if true, because in our current situation we should not be that picky. Everyone deserves a fair chance if they are playing on a high level, teenager or not.


Take this with a big grain of salt, but I ran into Pekka Jalonen's column in today's IL and it made me feel even more uneasy. According to Jalonen, at the moment Erkka has his eye on 2 forwards in Europe and 6 defensemen. The only defensemen from the NHL Erkka would bring along currently are Salo and Timonen. Even Vatanen is not on the current team. These omens are not good. If Erkka is seriously thinking Vatanen does not belong on the team despite the awful state of the defense, assuming Nummelin is among the 6 European dmen, I do have to wonder if he can come up with an excuse to leave out MiG as well. Perhaps Hagman can take his place on the team.

Long shot or not, we just may have to put our faith in Kekäläinen (whose judgment I trust in this) and the authority of our core players instead of Erkka if we want any of the 90's born on the team. I hope JJ stands up for Määttä, Saku and Teemu for Vatanen, Mikko for MiG etc. Ignoring their opinions should be difficult.


Last edited by Gaps: 10-29-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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Old
10-29-2013, 04:14 PM
  #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
Take this with a big grain of salt, but I ran into Pekka Jalonen's column in today's IL and it made me feel even more uneasy. According to Jalonen, at the moment Erkka has his eye on 2 forwards in Europe and 6 defensemen. The only defensemen from the NHL Erkka would bring along currently are Salo and Timonen. Even Vatanen is not on the current team. These omens are not good. If Erkka is seriously thinking Vatanen does not belong on the team despite the awful state of the defense, assuming Nummelin is among the 6 European dmen, I do have to wonder if he can come up with an excuse to leave out MiG as well. Perhaps Hagman can take his place on the team.
Pekka Jalonen's been known to talk out of his backside before, but even if he's in the know here, I'd like to point out that Erkka said that if they intend to roll with four pairs instead of three, they'll take 9 d-men. That means Vatanen is well marked in his papers. The man would truly be borderline senile if he wasn't. Granlund and Barkov are likely on the radar as well. Keep in mind that all three did make his summer list.

It's easy to get all gloomy concerning all 90-and-later-borns, but there's still a fair reason to assume that it's no one else than Määttä (and perhaps Ristolainen, a bit) who came from the left field and started messing up his circles.


Talking about Nummelin, looks like he has some groin trouble and may have to skip the Karjala Tournament. Which will make all the more harder for Erkka to justify his pick. It sure is handy for him to break himself before the games instead of when they are underway, as has been the tradition in every WHC he's been to since 2006. Seriously, people are calling Salo fragile, but Numppa is doubly so.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-29-2013 at 04:55 PM.
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10-30-2013, 11:28 AM
  #661
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I See the offensive lines going like this:

Granlund – M.Koivu – J.Jokinen
Leino – Filppula – Selänne/Ruutu
S.Koivu – O.Jokinen – Selänne /Ruutu
Korpikoski – Kapanen – Komarov

Barkov
Bergenheim/Joensuu

PP1:Filppula – OJ – Selänne
PP2: Granlund – M.Koivu – J.Jokinen

Or like this:

Filppula/Granlund – M.Koivu – J.Jokinen (PP.1)
Filppula/Granlund – O.Jokinen– Selänne (PP.2)
Bergenheim – Barkov - Ruutu
Korpikoski – S.Koivu – Komarov

Kapanen
Joensuu


Lot of questons about our offense. Will OJ return to his level? Will Barkov be just too good to sit in the bench/eat popcorns? Will Ruutu and Bergenheim be helthy at the time? Can Leino return to the level he was in Philly? Can Saku play wing? Filppula is our best center right now will Erkka still play him at wing? We will see.


With defense I would go like this:

Määttä – Salo
Timonen – Ristolainen
Mäntylä – Vatanen

Laakso
Kukkonen/Väänänen/Melart

PP1: Timonen- Salo
PP2:Mäntylä – Vatanen

Erkka might see it like this:

Timonen – Salo
Väänänen – Vatanen
Kukkonen – Ristolainen/Määttä

Laakso
Määttä/Ristolainen

Goalies:
Rask
Niemi
Lehtonen/Rinne/Rämö/euro goalie


4-7 Euro players in those options. Erkka said there will be 7-8 so we might see guys like Kontiola,Lehterä,Lepistö or Aaltonen.

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10-30-2013, 12:55 PM
  #662
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Filppula-Koivu-Ruutu?
MG-Barks-Teemu
Korpi-Koivu-Bergs
Joensuu-JJ-Komarov

Ain't shure about Ruutu (JJ takes his spot), but if he rebounds, he's in first line. First line with lots of strength and cycle play.

Second line is pure awesomeness with 3 kings of the big ice.

3rd line is able to produce and has 3 two way guys.

4th line with two bodies and a guy who is great at faceoffs and responsible at own end.

Only thing im worried about is 2nd line defensive duties Barks may have to take care of those by himself

There's no way i would pick any of the khl centers over Barkov. He has proven himself on big and small ice. 1st and 3rd line are centered by Koivu brothers.

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10-30-2013, 01:05 PM
  #663
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Määttä-Salo

Timonen-Risto

Väänänen-Vatanen

Melart-Järvinen

or Melart-Vatanen
Väänänen-Järvinen

Other candidates= Niskala, Nummelin Karalahti, Mäntylä

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10-30-2013, 01:06 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
Lot of questons about our offense. Will OJ return to his level? Will Barkov be just too good to sit in the bench/eat popcorns? Will Ruutu and Bergenheim be helthy at the time? Can Leino return to the level he was in Philly? Can Saku play wing? Filppula is our best center right now will Erkka still play him at wing? We will see.
OJ's time is running out. He's currently being outplayed by at least Lehterä and Barkov. Only the most nostalgic of us would enter him in the current projections. Remains to be seen if Erkka is one of them. The thing is, we have too many quality centres to pick from. Not all of them will make it. And trying to stick them at unnatural positions and roles is no solution.

What week do you live in? Ruutu and Bergenheim are healthy right now. Of course, they can get injured again, but so can everyone else.

Leino's been trying to return to his Springtime Philly form for two full seasons now. At this moment, most of us who are not infatuated with the letters "NHL" have all but written him off.

Saku shouldn't play wing. Period.

If Erkka thinks he can find a good enough winger to fill in Filppula's projected slot, then he enters the centre contention. But it looks more likely that he'll play wing, because he's one of our highest quality players for whom it's not an odd position. While some may say it's not a good tradeoff, having our perhaps best centre ATM at wing, but even lousier tradeoff is to make him play centre, pop out another quality centre because of that and replace him with a subpar winger.


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Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
With defense I would go like this:

Määttä – Salo
Timonen – Ristolainen
Mäntylä – Vatanen

Laakso
Kukkonen/Väänänen/Melart

PP1: Timonen- Salo
PP2:Mäntylä – Vatanen

Erkka might see it like this:

Timonen – Salo
Väänänen – Vatanen
Kukkonen – Ristolainen/Määttä

Laakso
Määttä/Ristolainen
Mäntylä-Vatanen needs more size.

Also, let's try not to stick every d-man with alleged NHL status in there. Määttä is playing superb, and Erkka is already having trouble working him in. An in-and-out Ristolainen is hardly in the current projection. Timonen, Salo, Vatanen, Määttä, Lepistö, Kukkonen, Väänänen and some random pick for slot #8 is realism... if we're lucky.

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10-31-2013, 06:21 AM
  #665
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Jere is back! will be great fight between him and hietanen for the 3rd pairing right hand shot slot. Feel bad for Nummelin but not the biggest blow ever.

Team Canada is doing the same they are going with true natural correct side hands for 3 pairings and might drop players like PK Subban because they have overload on right hand shots not left hand shots.

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10-31-2013, 06:30 AM
  #666
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Jere is back! will be great fight between him and hietanen for the 3rd pairing right hand shot slot.
Fight for what exactly?

Get it already. Erkka won't pick a single player based on their hook. We're not friggin' Canada, and can't allow to leave a solid performer out because he happens to play L or R. If Karalahti is to make the team, it's because he beat both more prominent lefties and righties for the slot.

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10-31-2013, 06:37 AM
  #667
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Fight for what exactly?

Get it already. Erkka won't pick a single player based on their hook. We're not friggin' Canada, and can't allow to leave a solid performer out because he happens to play L or R. If Karalahti is to make the team, it's because he beat both more prominent lefties and righties for the slot.
Neither of them have to beat the lefties. If they are on same level just take the right one guy. simple as that. Canada was just an example and theyre coach Mike Babcock stated how crucial its to have natural correct side hands in todays game in TSN interview this is something people other than myself dont seem to understand here.

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10-31-2013, 06:44 AM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
Neither of them have to beat the lefties. If they are on same level just take the right one guy. simple as that. Canada was just an example and theyre coach Mike Babcock stated how crucial its to have natural correct side hands in todays game in TSN interview this is something people other than myself dont seem to understand here.


Mike Babcock can pick from tons and tons of quality D-men, and he can tweak his squad out to his heart's content all the way down to the length of a player's pinky if he so desires.

Erkka Westerlund has the crop of 4-5 top shelf guys, who will make the team without injuries. After that, he will simply have to resort to comparing the rest and pick out the best. And if a player who happens to play with the "wrong" hook performs better than guys vying for the same role, he will sure as hell get picked.

I'll try and spell it out with as simple analogy as I can. Let's first take Zdeno Chara, who is the epitome of a defensive d-man these days. He plays with left hook. Now, let's presume that Slovakia found a way to clone him, and decided to hand out four copies to each participating country, simply out of random friendliness.

Now, if Finland had four Zdeno Charas in addition to their current crop, how many of them would make the team? All four. And how many Jere Karalahtis or Juuso Hietanens would make it in that situation? Zero of each.

But Canada... they could easily drop two of them to make room for, say, Shea Weber and Kris Letang.

Now, of course we don't have four Zdeno Charas, but if we have Ossi Väänänen, Lasse Kukkonen, Sami Lepistö and yet another left-hooked pick who play better defense than Karalahti, Karalahti won't make the team. It's as simple as that.


But if you still insist on carrying this line, I repeat my old challenge. Let's wait 'til the squad is picked, and see if every pair in Erkka's lineup comes with a matching hook. If you're right, feed me my line. If I'm right, I make sure to remind you of it from here to kingdom come.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-31-2013 at 07:16 AM.
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10-31-2013, 07:19 AM
  #669
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Mike Babcock can tweak his squad out of his heart and so can Erkka. I agree there are about 4 premier players that have locks in D and then rest are quite similiar mass with different atributes sizes and hands and i cannot ignore the fact that its better go with correct hands.

And im not here for attention or personal glory or to fight one forumist. Im just to make discussion over finland national team in Sochi. As far as my personal oppinions go against consensus i only want to see Jussi Jokinen play alongside Mikko and Valtteri and to have atleast 3 right hand shot D men in the squad. Rest of my oppinions are basicly same with everyone here.

PS. i already said in previous post canada was just an example incase some people missed it

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10-31-2013, 07:34 AM
  #670
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
Mike Babcock can tweak his squad out of his heart and so can Erkka. I agree there are about 4 premier players that have locks in D and then rest are quite similiar mass with different atributes sizes and hands and i cannot ignore the fact that its better go with correct hands.
If our top-four d-man slots are dealt out, the most important aspect for the rest is how effectively they can play the two-way game and how sound they are in the own end.

Now, while Juuso Hietanen has bigger offensive upside than Ossi Väänänen for example, Väänänen is still miles ahead in defense and makes it in due to that. Their handednesses are irrelevant. Similar comparisons can be made between Lepistö and Karalahti, Kukkonen and Hietanen, Kukkonen and Karalahti and so forth. Only in a situation where they're truly indistinguishable in the role intended, can Erkka start thinking things like handednesses.

I want to see Karalahti play good and raise his stock at the Karjala Tournament. I want every guy picked there to do so, no matter whether they're d-men, goalies or forwards. But if Karalahti turns out to be old, slow and constantly late with his duties, his hook won't punch him a ticket no matter how much he waves it in front of Erkka's face. Neither won't it help Hietanen, if his natural slots are already full.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
As far as my personal oppinions go against consensus i only want to see Jussi Jokinen play alongside Mikko and Valtteri and to have atleast 3 right hand shot D men in the squad. Rest of my oppinions are basicly same with everyone here.
And you can prepare for a disappointment on both counts.

It's one thing to have an opinion on a thing there is no technical consensus about, like who should be the 2C or are Ristolainen and Määttä ready. I may not agree with everybody on those counts, but I know my opinion is no worse than the next man's.

But these wishes of yours... they're not something there're wildly dissecting opinions about. And even if there are, most people keep 'em to themselves, because they know the default will happen regardless.

You're of course entitled to your opinions, but there's still a difference between arguing against another man's opinion and a law of nature. Realism needs to be taken into account, it's the thin red line between sensible and non-sensible discussion. If somebody gets hawked on, it's actually rarely because of the content of the post, but more the way it's presented. You're calling this hook thing your opinion, but you started it by presenting it as if it was the norm, while it's actually the opposite.

I can't tell you to change the way you present things any more you can tell me to change mine. But if you really recognize that you're swimming against the stream here, and wish to avoid conflicts, it is recommendable to make it known. It's what I try to do whenever I know I'll be stating something that may not be taken well. I'll make it clear it's simply "my opinion", or a "wild thought" or something like that. I don't dress my statement as if it were actually to happen.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-31-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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10-31-2013, 08:56 AM
  #671
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Too much to read here, too much useless technicalities to digest. Instead, lets put up some thesis or principles to build up this theam (it should be friggin easy):

1) No KHL vets aside one two exceptions: Lehterä probably.
2) Barkov should make the team; and MiG should be a lock.
3) Määttä and Vatanen should be locks.
4) Jussi Jokinen should play 1st line.
5) Yes: 95 % of the team should be NHLers.
6) Just take the best ones by stats and chemistry.
7) Keep it simple and stupid.

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10-31-2013, 09:56 AM
  #672
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
1) No KHL vets aside one two exceptions: Lehterä probably.
2) Barkov should make the team; and MiG should be a lock.
3) Määttä and Vatanen should be locks.
4) Jussi Jokinen should play 1st line.
5) Yes: 95 % of the team should be NHLers.
6) Just take the best ones by stats and chemistry.
7) Keep it simple and stupid.
Let's make #4 "top-six" and I'm sure we can all agree. Because otherwise, #4 and #6 contradict each other.

And #5 can't come to fruition no way, no how. First of all, we have only 18 NHL skaters, out of which only 5 are d-men. And even if you take all of our NHLers and stick them in there whichever way you can (which contradicts #6 too, that's no way to build the best team), you still need a minimum of 4 non-NHL players. So there can only be a 84% NHL ratio at best. Can't go higher no matter what. A realistic count is somewhere around 75%, but it can go even lower. Though I suppose it's still true... yes, it should be 95% NHLers. We just can't achieve that.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-31-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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10-31-2013, 11:53 AM
  #673
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Looks like our Olympic jerseys will be out soon, the Leijonat Twitter account has posted two teasers so far:

Today:
https://twitter.com/leijonat/status/395876405721829378
Guessing they will be released in 6 days.

The blue jersey looks nice based on the little you can see of it in the background (well, assuming that is actually the new blue jersey), but I am not so sure if I want to know where that blue cross is located on the white jersey.

Yesterday:
https://twitter.com/leijonat/status/395477479277604864

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10-31-2013, 12:03 PM
  #674
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
The blue jersey looks nice based on the little you can see of it in the background (well, assuming that is actually the new blue jersey), but I am not so sure if I want to know where that blue cross is located on the white jersey.
Ugh. Looks like they haven't worked out of that red-letter retro look, which is an eyesore in my opinion. Red just isn't our color.

I can live with it on the coat of arms, but that darn "SUOMI" -word should be in some other shade.

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10-31-2013, 03:49 PM
  #675
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Ugh. Looks like they haven't worked out of that red-letter retro look, which is an eyesore in my opinion. Red just isn't our color.

I can live with it on the coat of arms, but that darn "SUOMI" -word should be in some other shade.
It may be a bit of an eyesore, but I honestly have no idea which color I would use instead of the red. The red/gold coat of arms ties your hands a little IMO. Much easier to make good-looking jerseys when you can use Liitto's logo.

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