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10-27-2013, 02:17 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
He plays 10x's better when he's in the middle.

Its not fair to guys like Lecav and Couturier who are better at FO's that Schenn wont or cant play as well on W.

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10-27-2013, 02:19 PM
  #227
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Its not fair to guys like Lecav and Couturier who are better at FO's that Schenn wont or cant play as well on W.
Vinny is playing on G's wing and scored a hat-trick. Couts played 20 minutes last night and is flanked by Read and Simmer. I doubt either of them are complaining. If it's a big FO you put someone else out there, it's not a big deal.

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10-27-2013, 02:21 PM
  #228
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I never thought JVR would become as good as he is looking now. Not that I ever questioned his talent, but wow he is really starting to put it all together. He just seemed to me like he was content in being mediocre. Guess that trade really motivated him to get his act together.

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10-27-2013, 02:22 PM
  #229
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I agree. He and Jake should make for a good line. He does have to work on his FO but since he's been in the NHL he's played about half wing and half center, which is only 60 games. With good faceoff guys on the team and Clarke around I have little doubt that he'll improve in that area.
He definitely does but the guy he replaced wasn't do that well neither. Vinny has a 39.7 FO% while Schenn has a 37.1 FO% on the year so far.

It also doesn't help that the Flyers have been moving the kid in & out of the two positions a lot ever since he's been here. I think it's time they admit that he's a natural center & leave him be. His faceoffs will get better like you said.

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10-27-2013, 02:25 PM
  #230
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I never thought JVR would become as good as he is looking now. Not that I ever questioned his talent, but wow he is really starting to put it all together. He just seemed to me like he was content in being mediocre. Guess that trade really motivated him to get his act together.
Definitely gave up on JVR early but he had 3 pretty average years with Phila, with his last year the most disappointing.

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10-27-2013, 02:28 PM
  #231
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Its not fair to guys like Lecav and Couturier who are better at FO's that Schenn wont or cant play as well on W.
Lecavalier wasn't lighting up the faceoff dot neither with his 39.7 FO% & Couturier doesn't have the offensive acumen at this point like Schenn does. He deserves it.

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10-27-2013, 02:29 PM
  #232
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Definitely gave up on JVR early but he had 3 pretty average years with Phila, with his last year the most disappointing.
Usually I would agree with the notion that the Flyers give up on young talent too soon but in the case of JVR, he was a 2nd overall pick. You're expected to make an immediate impact when you're drafted that high.

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10-27-2013, 02:33 PM
  #233
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Usually I would agree with the notion that the Flyers give up on young talent too soon but in the case of JVR, he was a 2nd overall pick. You're expected to make an immediate impact when you're drafted that high.
JVR definitely would go long stretches where he did almost nothing.

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10-27-2013, 02:33 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
I never thought JVR would become as good as he is looking now. Not that I ever questioned his talent, but wow he is really starting to put it all together. He just seemed to me like he was content in being mediocre. Guess that trade really motivated him to get his act together.
Some guys just take a little longer and honestly he's only 24, not exactly a late bloomer. Having more ice time is huge as well. He averaged over 19 last year and just over 21 so far in his 10 games, second among all forwards. When he was with the Flyers he averaged ~13 minutes his first season, ~14:40 his second and ~15:10 his last year (9th among forwards, so the least of the top 9). He goes to Toronto and gets a bump of 4 minutes per game almost instantly, good for 3rd among forwards.

It's very hard for player to play 15 minutes a night and still produce, very few can do that on a regular basis. There was little doubt in my mind he was gonna put it together if given the opportunity.

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He definitely does but the guy he replaced wasn't do that well neither. Vinny has a 39.7 FO% while Schenn has a 37.1 FO%.
I was just gonna say this.


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10-27-2013, 02:46 PM
  #235
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Some guys just take a little longer and honestly he's only 24, not exactly a late bloomer. Having more ice time is huge as well. He averaged over 19 last year and just over 21 so far in his 10 games, second among all forwards. When he was with the Flyers he averaged ~13 minutes his first season, ~14:40 his second and ~15:10 his last year (9th among forwards, so the least of the top 9). He goes to Toronto and gets a bump of 4 minutes per game almost instantly, good for 3rd among forwards.

It's very hard for player to play 15 minutes a night and still produce, very few can do that on a regular basis. There was little doubt in my mind he was gonna put it together if given the opportunity.
It also didn't help he was our consolation prize for missing out on Kane. He was always going to be looked at as that. I suppose that wasn't very fair to him, but after that 06-07 season we had been subjected to, it's understandable.

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10-27-2013, 02:52 PM
  #236
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It also didn't help he was our consolation prize for missing out on Kane. He was always going to be looked at as that. I suppose that wasn't very fair to him, but after that 06-07 season we had been subjected to, it's understandable.
From a fan standpoint that's true, but it shouldn't have any affect on management's decision to trade a player or not. I know you're not necessarily saying that's a reason he was traded, but hopefully that wasn't part of their thought process.

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10-27-2013, 02:54 PM
  #237
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It also didn't help he was our consolation prize for missing out on Kane. He was always going to be looked at as that. I suppose that wasn't very fair to him, but after that 06-07 season we had been subjected to, it's understandable.
The Schenns are being treated similarly by fans now IMO. Brayden for being a big piece of the Richards trade (the face of the franchise who went on to win a cup a year after his trade) and Luke being the return for JVR (who is putting it all together and tearing **** up). I know it's hard but fans need to try and stay subjective in situations like these.

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10-27-2013, 03:01 PM
  #238
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From a fan standpoint that's true, but it shouldn't have any affect on management's decision to trade a player or not. I know you're not necessarily saying that's a reason he was traded, but hopefully that wasn't part of their thought process.
Yeah I would hope not.


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The Schenns are being treated similarly by fans now IMO. Brayden for being a big piece of the Richards trade (the face of the franchise who went on to win a cup a year after his trade) and Luke being the return for JVR (who is putting it all together and tearing **** up). I know it's hard but fans need to try and stay subjective in situations like these.

Very true. I admit I get a little discouraged and impatient from time to time but I remind myself that Rome wasn't built in a day. These are the kind of struggles I expected as soon as we made those trades. That 100 point season and beating the Pens in round 1 I feel didn't do those young guys any favors in terms of expectations.

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10-28-2013, 07:21 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
I never thought JVR would become as good as he is looking now. Not that I ever questioned his talent, but wow he is really starting to put it all together. He just seemed to me like he was content in being mediocre. Guess that trade really motivated him to get his act together.
It's more related to the fact that he's not injured. Myself, and several others on here could see he was ready to put it all together. His "breakout" year that he should have had here was hampered by injuries.

The most frustrating part of that trade was that even though Schenn is a solid player, he didn't fill the specific hole we had on defense. Whereas Jvr was the only player on the team that could be that top line goal scorer we needed to play with Giroux.

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10-28-2013, 07:39 AM
  #240
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It's more related to the fact that he's not injured. Myself, and several others on here could see he was ready to put it all together. His "breakout" year that he should have had here was hampered by injuries.

The most frustrating part of that trade was that even though Schenn is a solid player, he didn't fill the specific hole we had on defense. Whereas Jvr was the only player on the team that could be that top line goal scorer we needed to play with Giroux.
Yep. Lateral move. Addressing one area (blue line) while creating a hole somewhere else. Holmgren loves those types of moves.

Also frustrating was that you could see JVR and Giroux had legit chemistry. They seemed like really good friends who were starting to gel. Would've been fun to watch.

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10-28-2013, 09:04 AM
  #241
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It's more related to the fact that he's not injured. Myself, and several others on here could see he was ready to put it all together. His "breakout" year that he should have had here was hampered by injuries.

The most frustrating part of that trade was that even though Schenn is a solid player, he didn't fill the specific hole we had on defense. Whereas Jvr was the only player on the team that could be that top line goal scorer we needed to play with Giroux.
Man you just triggered my IBS with this post...it's so true. It is looking like Toronto will get the better returns. Frustrating as hell.....

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10-28-2013, 09:38 AM
  #242
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Man you just triggered my IBS with this post...it's so true. It is looking like Toronto will get the better returns. Frustrating as hell.....
I don't see it that way. The two players play very different roles. JvR had a good season last year, not as good as people here like pretend, but still a good season, and he is off to a good start this year. Schenn is a shut down defender. He's not ever going to be flashy. He's only 23 and it is pretty well accepted that defenders blossom later than forwards. Schenn was probably our best defender last year, and its hard to single him out as good or bad this year because they've all been pretty bad. Plus, looking back at how bad the defense was when the trade was made (and how bad our defensive prospects were) and how good our offense looked, its hard to say I wouldn't do it again.

Plus, everyone loves to discredit guys like Bobby Ryan for playing with good linemates as to why they are so good when it is convenient for their argument...why doesn't JvR get that treatment? Isn't he playing on the top line up there? NOTE: I hate that argument, but it gets thrown around a lot to discredit players that people don't like, but never seems to get thrown around when players are liked.

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10-28-2013, 09:40 AM
  #243
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JVR definitely would go long stretches where he did almost nothing.
Agreed. The most frustrating part is that he would look dominant for a game, and literally disappear the next 6 or 7 games.

Was extremely frustrating to watch.

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10-28-2013, 10:04 AM
  #244
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There is an article by Dave Isaac on how the Flyers are using GPS information to track practices. Luke Schenn is one of the main guys using this data to learn how to be a better skater. He said his main focus is is getting a better start.

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10-28-2013, 10:05 AM
  #245
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I don't see it that way. The two players play very different roles. JvR had a good season last year, not as good as people here like pretend, but still a good season, and he is off to a good start this year. Schenn is a shut down defender. He's not ever going to be flashy. He's only 23 and it is pretty well accepted that defenders blossom later than forwards. Schenn was probably our best defender last year, and its hard to single him out as good or bad this year because they've all been pretty bad. Plus, looking back at how bad the defense was when the trade was made (and how bad our defensive prospects were) and how good our offense looked, its hard to say I wouldn't do it again.

Plus, everyone loves to discredit guys like Bobby Ryan for playing with good linemates as to why they are so good when it is convenient for their argument...why doesn't JvR get that treatment? Isn't he playing on the top line up there? NOTE: I hate that argument, but it gets thrown around a lot to discredit players that people don't like, but never seems to get thrown around when players are liked.
Agreed with your point but I don't think you can compare playing with Kadri and Kessel to playing with Getzlaf and Perry at this stage.

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10-28-2013, 10:06 AM
  #246
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There is an article by Dave Isaac on how the Flyers are using GPS information to trade practices. Luke Schenn is one of the main guys using this data to learn how to be a better skater. He said his main focus is is getting a better start.
Can you post a link? I'd be really interested in learning what he is doing, sounds cool!

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10-28-2013, 10:11 AM
  #247
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Can you post a link? I'd be really interested in learning what he is doing, sounds cool!
http://www.courierpostonline.com/art...nclick_check=1

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10-28-2013, 11:41 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
I never thought JVR would become as good as he is looking now. Not that I ever questioned his talent, but wow he is really starting to put it all together. He just seemed to me like he was content in being mediocre. Guess that trade really motivated him to get his act together.
Different team with a different style of play, maybe JVR was more suited for the Leafs dump and chase style of play.

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10-28-2013, 12:24 PM
  #249
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My grief with JVR and his injuries came when he needed surgery and supposedly waffled on the decision. The org supposedly wanted him to do it, he said "mehhh." Like the org wanting him to go to Juniors and he goes to NCAA instead.

It was speculated here and elsewhere that was the straw that broke the Holmgren's back.

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10-28-2013, 12:34 PM
  #250
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There is an article by Dave Isaac on how the Flyers are using GPS information to track practices. Luke Schenn is one of the main guys using this data to learn how to be a better skater. He said his main focus is is getting a better start.
Maybe the team can use it to find the back of the net

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