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How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

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Old
10-23-2013, 05:35 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rattler280 View Post
For what it's worth Todd White constantly says on Ottawa radio that Torts acts completely different behind closed doors compared to what we see on TV. He says the majority of players, including himself, thought he was a great guy and really liked him as a coach. Not saying that the team regrets anything or that AV is a bad coach/hire by any means, just that Torts, according to White, has an undeserved bad reputation.
We saw small clips of a calm, patient and encouraging Tortorella in NY the few times MSG showed behind-the-scenes footage of him with the players. I remember one instance in particular where he had the team with him and he was analyzing video with them. He had their attention but he didn't need to yell at them. This "always angry" persona that he has is a myth. I was watching parts of the Canucks-Islanders game the other night and the announcers couldn't stop with the "typical fuming Torts" stuff just because he was getting visibly annoyed at some penalty calls against Vancouver.

Vaigneault doesn't have to be like Tortorella, but he does have to start winning games. It's going to be hard to do with the injuries to Lundqvist and Nash. The team is not deep and is starved for offense, things that Tortorella had to deal with during his tenure. Nash needs to come back and get to the 40 goal level the Rangers relied so heavily on Gaborik for. And if the other forwards don't step up, Lundqvist is going to have to be his usual Vezina-contender self. That's a lot to ask for from two players, but that's the roster Sather has put together. There are really only two players on the team who are star-level difference makers. It's hard to be a serious contender with one star forward and an elite goalie. The support players would actually have to be scoring for that to work, which they haven't done nearly enough. Chicago's roster looks like an All-Star team compared to what the Rangers ice.

Sather has the franchise running on a treadmill. There's no progress. That's why Rangers coaches are all eventually forced to adopt the same strategy where they play a safe, very structured defensive system and pray to God that the team can score just one more goal than Lundqvist gives up, which usually has to be two or fewer. Even if they could get a tie at the end of regulation they were in good shape because Lundqvist is so good in the shootout. But it still means 82 games of hard-fought, tight, low-scoring games, and that's before the playoffs even start. Lundqvist has to be strong every night just for them to barely scrape by. If he's off his game like he has been this season, it's almost a guaranteed loss because there's no offensive support. Tortorella and Renney are probably texting "I told you!" right about now to Vaigneault.

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10-24-2013, 01:14 AM
  #77
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Here's what I'm wondering...

The Avalanche have been in the bottom of the league for the past several years...

They hire Roy, and all of the sudden they are a ****ing powerhouse, winning just about every game, and dominating while doing so...

Why isn't that something we could have had? Is AV not good enough? is the Rangers Roster that much worse off than Colorado's last year?

It's baffling to me

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10-24-2013, 01:46 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Here's what I'm wondering...

The Avalanche have been in the bottom of the league for the past several years...

They hire Roy, and all of the sudden they are a ****ing powerhouse, winning just about every game, and dominating while doing so...

Why isn't that something we could have had? Is AV not good enough? is the Rangers Roster that much worse off than Colorado's last year?

It's baffling to me
Colorado has great offensive talent but what made the difference is Roy went in day 1 got the team to play his way and implemented his identity. Vigneault is a good hockey mind and a good hockey coach, but I really don't see any evidence that he can in first day on the job all guns firing. The team has lost the identity that Torts cultivated, but hasn't replaced it with anything at all. In the NHL your team needs to have an identity. Roy gave one to the Avalanche and he affirmed it when he pushed the plexi glass in the first game of the season. I think Sather and even some of the players thought that just getting a new voice in the locker room was enough but it clearly is not the case.

Vigneault had a horrendous preseason and the team started the regular season way behind the 8 ball. With all the injuries they haven't been able to create any momentum and haven't been any good anyway. However, the Rangers are a ship without a rudder right now.

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10-24-2013, 03:42 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Here's what I'm wondering...

The Avalanche have been in the bottom of the league for the past several years...

They hire Roy, and all of the sudden they are a ****ing powerhouse, winning just about every game, and dominating while doing so...

Why isn't that something we could have had? Is AV not good enough? is the Rangers Roster that much worse off than Colorado's last year?

It's baffling to me
I'd be willing to bet the Avs will be out of the playoff picture and back in the basement by February. The kids are excited and things are going rosy right now, but it simply isn't a good team.

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10-24-2013, 04:42 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Here's what I'm wondering...

The Avalanche have been in the bottom of the league for the past several years...

They hire Roy, and all of the sudden they are a ****ing powerhouse, winning just about every game, and dominating while doing so...

Why isn't that something we could have had? Is AV not good enough? is the Rangers Roster that much worse off than Colorado's last year?

It's baffling to me
It was very well known that Colorado had alot of "party boys" that basically destroyed the locker room and divided everybody. (which i believe was part of the reason why anderson left IIRC) Since then they've gotten new managament, new players and a new coach, So i'd say they always had the talent. They just had to get their **** in check. (See Chicago and Kane for example)

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10-24-2013, 09:44 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
I'd be willing to bet the Avs will be out of the playoff picture and back in the basement by February. The kids are excited and things are going rosy right now, but it simply isn't a good team.
How much?

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10-24-2013, 09:54 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Here's what I'm wondering...

The Avalanche have been in the bottom of the league for the past several years...

They hire Roy, and all of the sudden they are a ****ing powerhouse, winning just about every game, and dominating while doing so...

Why isn't that something we could have had? Is AV not good enough? is the Rangers Roster that much worse off than Colorado's last year?

It's baffling to me
Domintion? Yeah getting outshot by Pitts 32-14 is domination

Really though, this is a sugar high, their piss poor defense and Varlamov won't hold up like this.

I still predict they miss the playoffs.

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10-24-2013, 11:52 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Domintion? Yeah getting outshot by Pitts 32-14 is domination

Really though, this is a sugar high, their piss poor defense and Varlamov won't hold up like this.

I still predict they miss the playoffs.
They will end up with a better record than the Rangers and will probably make the playoffs.

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Old
10-24-2013, 11:57 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Here's what I'm wondering...

The Avalanche have been in the bottom of the league for the past several years...

They hire Roy, and all of the sudden they are a ****ing powerhouse, winning just about every game, and dominating while doing so...

Why isn't that something we could have had? Is AV not good enough? is the Rangers Roster that much worse off than Colorado's last year?

It's baffling to me
Colorado is also a team that's been building towards competitiveness for years. What success they're having now might be temporary, but if it isn't, it's because of a combination of a group maturing and the right coach at the right time. 4 of their top 5 scorers were drafted in the last 4 years. AV has a very different job.

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Old
10-27-2013, 06:42 AM
  #85
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Absolutely none. He's already well on his way to ruining the Canucks PP which is clicking at a whopping 11% right now. He'll have a good record his first year as guys will play for him out of fear, playing his top guys 20 to 25 minutes a night. They will be heaf dead at the end of the season and he'll be canned after year 3.

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10-27-2013, 12:05 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by anotherlongyear View Post
Absolutely none. He's already well on his way to ruining the Canucks PP which is clicking at a whopping 11% right now. He'll have a good record his first year as guys will play for him out of fear, playing his top guys 20 to 25 minutes a night. They will be heaf dead at the end of the season and he'll be canned after year 3.
The canucks are a team in decline. Yet they're 8-5 and in second place while the Rangers are 3-6 and in second to last place while being blown out in most games. He's doing a lot better than Vigneault.

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10-27-2013, 07:07 PM
  #87
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I don't see why players would regret the move. What kind of players would not buy into the new environment and the future?

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10-28-2013, 03:16 AM
  #88
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As a Canucks fan I would just like to say that so far I like torts and ill explain why:
1. motivation! I have not seen the Canucks play as hard as they do in years. The fact that a lot of their games they come from behind speaks for itself. Few players have also mentioned that AV would just tell the team to concentrate on the next game if they were behind after the second period.
2. involvement with the team and speaking up. AV didn't even go to the dressing room during intermissions.
3. AV would constantly force players to play in positions that they weren't comfortable with. All the canucks fans could see that kesler was better on the wing but for some reason AV kept playing him as a center.(same applies to Edler who played on the wrong side and struggled for most of the season.) Torts seems to get the best out of his players, prime examples are Sontarelli and Richardson.
4. I truly believe that the only reason the Canucks didn't win the SC was because AV got out coached.
I just think it was a good move for both teams, and time will tell what these coaching are going to bring out of both teams.

Good luck with the new coach and the upcoming season.

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10-28-2013, 07:47 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by TmX View Post
As a Canucks fan I would just like to say that so far I like torts and ill explain why:
1. motivation! I have not seen the Canucks play as hard as they do in years. The fact that a lot of their games they come from behind speaks for itself. Few players have also mentioned that AV would just tell the team to concentrate on the next game if they were behind after the second period.
2. involvement with the team and speaking up. AV didn't even go to the dressing room during intermissions.
3. AV would constantly force players to play in positions that they weren't comfortable with. All the canucks fans could see that kesler was better on the wing but for some reason AV kept playing him as a center.(same applies to Edler who played on the wrong side and struggled for most of the season.) Torts seems to get the best out of his players, prime examples are Sontarelli and Richardson.
4. I truly believe that the only reason the Canucks didn't win the SC was because AV got out coached.
I just think it was a good move for both teams, and time will tell what these coaching are going to bring out of both teams.

Good luck with the new coach and the upcoming season.
Quote:
With all the questions surrounding the Vancouver Canucks at the start of the season, the team’s 8-4-1 start has to be a source of delight to its fans. The more vexing queries — Roberto Luongo. how the team would respond to John Tortorella — have been answered, but there’s an issue concerning the workload Tortorella assigns to his top forwards which will be a source of angst throughout this NHL season.

As of this writing, Ryan Kesler (22:32 per game), Henrik Sedin (22:24) and Daniel Sedin (22:09) are 14th, 15th and 16th among all players in ice time.

So what, you say? Here’s what.

They’re also 1, 2 and 3 among all forwards in ice time. The next closest forward, moreover, is Winnipeg’s Evander Kane who’s 36th in the league. To put the Big Three’s ice time in perspective, their averaging more minutes than workhorse defencemen Drew Doughty, Duncan Keith and P.K. Subban.

So far, Tortorella has been a master at manipulating the minutes among his best players and you’d think he’ll redistribute the workload as he begins to get healthy bodies back. But he’s also displayed a reticence about playing the bottom half of his lineup which will make for a fascinating ongoing conversation this season.
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...067/story.html

Tortorella is 3 line coach. He will drop down to 4 D if the team is trailing or in a close game and he loses trust in a player.

If your goalie would have made a save or two,you guys win the Cup.

You're complaining about Kesler at center? Were you complaining in 10-11 when he was one of the best players in the entire league playing in the middle? The player is a natural center iceman.

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Old
10-28-2013, 07:54 AM
  #90
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I miss his post match interviews.
Especially after a loss. Don't even have that to look forward to after a loss now

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10-28-2013, 08:53 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
Vaigneault doesn't have to be like Tortorella, but he does have to start winning games. It's going to be hard to do with the injuries to Lundqvist and Nash. The team is not deep and is starved for offense, things that Tortorella had to deal with during his tenure. Nash needs to come back and get to the 40 goal level the Rangers relied so heavily on Gaborik for. And if the other forwards don't step up, Lundqvist is going to have to be his usual Vezina-contender self. That's a lot to ask for from two players, but that's the roster Sather has put together. There are really only two players on the team who are star-level difference makers. It's hard to be a serious contender with one star forward and an elite goalie. The support players would actually have to be scoring for that to work, which they haven't done nearly enough. Chicago's roster looks like an All-Star team compared to what the Rangers ice.
It's funny that you mention the superstar elite forward on the team. He went number 1 overall, that's where teams get guys that can dominate with the puck, at the top of the draft boards. So when a team ices a few players that can do that, then that puck possession type of game can be played, because the coach can throw out that player who dominates with the puck. When teams have defense men that can do that, then that's when it really clicks, and I think you need at least 3-4 players like that and one better be a 25 min a night d-man.

Chi: Toews (3rd overall) Kane (1st) Keith (32nd) Hossa (12th)
Ott: Spezza (2nd), Ryan (2nd), Karsslon (15)
Pit: Crosby (1st), Malkin (2nd), Letang (hit late)
Wsh: Ovechkin (1st), Backstrom (4th), Green (26th)
Det: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall. (Hit Late repeatedly)

So unless your Detroit, you had to suck and pick up high end picks, year after year, or give up assets or sign free agents to get those types of players.

AV had the Sedins (2nd, 3rd) in Van that were those guys for him over there. After watching the preseason game against Van with Lundqvist and the full D line up, and seeing the results, it was clear to me that the free flow brand of river hockey wasn't going to work with this organization.

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10-28-2013, 08:58 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
After watching the preseason game against Van with Lundqvist and the full D line up, and seeing the results, it was clear to me that the free flow brand of river hockey wasn't going to work with this organization.
But that approach has never worked for this organization.

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10-28-2013, 10:51 AM
  #93
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The answer is 2

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10-28-2013, 12:58 PM
  #94
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I *LOVED* the intensity he brought every game, every practice, every video session- there's something to be said about igniting a flame underneath your players. However, I will say this:

1.) You will *NOT* win a Stanley Cup the way he wanted the Rangers to play. You won't win games by blocking shots and dumping and chasing. Your players get hurt night in and night out while blocking shots, it's not an ideal, long term game plan.

2.) He ranks on his players in interviews and puts them on blast. Listen, as a coach, you can't do that to players. You can't tell the media Hagelin "sucks" on the Power Play, or tell Richards he can't play and use him on the 4th line in the playoffs, and you can't destroy a young kid's confidence like he did with Kreider.

He's a mad man, no doubt about it. I liked that aspect of him, meaning he would do anything to help his players and team win. But his logic sometimes was very skewed.

Also, the Power Play was atrocious. You can't tell Gaborik to go into corners and grind it out when that's not his style. A lot of players, I felt anyway, lost respect for him towards the end of last season. Just my 2 cents.

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10-28-2013, 02:07 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by ericmgomes View Post
1.) You will *NOT* win a Stanley Cup the way he wanted the Rangers to play. You won't win games by blocking shots and dumping and chasing. Your players get hurt night in and night out while blocking shots, it's not an ideal, long term game plan.
Blocking shots is a part of the game. As is dump and chase. Send the puck down and then retrieve it. Plenty of teams won the cup that way. You certainly do not make the playoffs by not showing up to games.
Quote:
2.) He ranks on his players in interviews and puts them on blast. Listen, as a coach, you can't do that to players. You can't tell the media Hagelin "sucks" on the Power Play, or tell Richards he can't play and use him on the 4th line in the playoffs, and you can't destroy a young kid's confidence like he did with Kreider.
Apparently the feel good approach is not working either.

For all the confidences the he destroyed, what about those of a McD? Or any of the other defensemen? Or any of the other younger players whose time thrived under him?
Quote:
Also, the Power Play was atrocious. You can't tell Gaborik to go into corners and grind it out when that's not his style. A lot of players, I felt anyway, lost respect for him towards the end of last season. Just my 2 cents.
He had everyone playing the same way. Telling Gaborik not to go into corners is like Bure saying that you cannot play defense if you want to score goals.

Whether they lost respect for him or not, one would never know it as there was 100% effort each night.

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10-28-2013, 03:09 PM
  #96
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You're complaining about Kesler at center? Were you complaining in 10-11 when he was one of the best players in the entire league playing in the middle? The player is a natural center iceman.
I am sorry but I still didn't like him at center even back then. He just had a monster year and I can bet that he would of put the same numbers regardless of the position that he played. Putting that season aside he has never produced that much as a center. This year is a perfect example of that. Torts put him on the wing and he started scoring. oh and he played pretty much his entire career as a winger.

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10-28-2013, 05:38 PM
  #97
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By the way, who cares if the players hate their coach? Screw em.

Herb Brooks was despised by his team and produced the greatest upset in ice hockey history.

I hate my boss but I still do my best at work. It is being professional and taking responsibility for yourself.
I think it's interesting we almost never hear this sort of way of thinking anymore today. Honestly though, the players should have never had a problem with Torts. He treated them like men and got the best out of them. The fact that none of them told him he was being too hard on them, the fact that Cally didn't tell him, frankly says way more about the heart of this team than it does about Torts. This team is a bunch of little boys.

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10-28-2013, 05:47 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by ericmgomes View Post
I *LOVED* the intensity he brought every game, every practice, every video session- there's something to be said about igniting a flame underneath your players. However, I will say this:

1.) You will *NOT* win a Stanley Cup the way he wanted the Rangers to play. You won't win games by blocking shots and dumping and chasing. Your players get hurt night in and night out while blocking shots, it's not an ideal, long term game plan.

2.) He ranks on his players in interviews and puts them on blast. Listen, as a coach, you can't do that to players. You can't tell the media Hagelin "sucks" on the Power Play, or tell Richards he can't play and use him on the 4th line in the playoffs, and you can't destroy a young kid's confidence like he did with Kreider.

He's a mad man, no doubt about it. I liked that aspect of him, meaning he would do anything to help his players and team win. But his logic sometimes was very skewed.

Also, the Power Play was atrocious. You can't tell Gaborik to go into corners and grind it out when that's not his style. A lot of players, I felt anyway, lost respect for him towards the end of last season. Just my 2 cents.
And yet Cally is out right now with a blocked shot injury under AV. So much for your blocking shots theory. Grow up, it's part of the game. If you're coaching football are you going to tell all of your offensive players to slide or get out of bounds on every play just to make sure they stay healthy?

Anyone who uses the Hagelin "sucks" line as an incitement of torts I instantly know doesn't know what they're talking about. Read/watch the rest of the god damn comment. It was like 10 million words gushing about him and then that one line thrown in there with a smile, not completely serious. Same with the Richie comments. He said he loved him in those quotes and yet people only focus on the limited negative he contained in there. He's an honest and blunt guy. People should appreciate that instead of as he said to brooksie, "you try to use my words and box me in to a corner all the time." Take the full quote or don't mention it at all.

Yeah, Gabby sucked all the way to his best season ever under Torts.

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10-28-2013, 08:49 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by ericmgomes View Post
I *LOVED* the intensity he brought every game, every practice, every video session- there's something to be said about igniting a flame underneath your players. However, I will say this:

1.) You will *NOT* win a Stanley Cup the way he wanted the Rangers to play. You won't win games by blocking shots and dumping and chasing. Your players get hurt night in and night out while blocking shots, it's not an ideal, long term game plan.
Yeah, good thing our injury days are over.

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10-28-2013, 09:50 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup* View Post
Absolutely none. He's already well on his way to ruining the Canucks PP which is clicking at a whopping 11% right now. He'll have a good record his first year as guys will play for him out of fear, playing his top guys 20 to 25 minutes a night. They will be heaf dead at the end of the season and he'll be canned after year 3.
Actually, Gulutzan is in charge of the PP, Sullivan is in charge of the PK in Vancouver.

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