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Canadiens @ Rangers: "These refs suck"

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Old
10-29-2013, 09:47 AM
  #301
Thesensation19
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The breakout has a lot of issues and it limits our team.

We have 1 defender with the puck behind the net. Hes being pressured by opposition A.

His ONLY option in this system is a guy along the boards... Which could be fine and all if the opposing team wasnt so smart and cut off that pass.

They sometimes have a guy swoop in front of the net but hes so ineffective there.

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10-29-2013, 09:47 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
While I understand more than anyone that this team is lacking talent, I don't think the expectation was that Nash, Callahan, and Hagelin (who is more of a secondary scorer anyway) would be the only players scoring goals this season.

The rest of the team has to pick up the slack when there are injuries. They showed signs of life against Detroit by scoring 3 goals, but then proceeded to get shutout again last night. There are players who are capable of playing better than they have shown and should be contributing more. Richards looked like he was going to put the team on his back but he seems to have run out of gas.
When Nash and Callahan are in they draw defensive attention and coverage. Right now you have guys who would normally be going up against second pairings trying to beat other teams' top defenders. It's more than a matter of missing the goals those guys contribute, it means missing goals from the rest of the roster that would get scored because of advantageous matchups.

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10-29-2013, 10:03 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
When Nash and Callahan are in they draw defensive attention and coverage. Right now you have guys who would normally be going up against second pairings trying to beat other teams' top defenders. It's more than a matter of missing the goals those guys contribute, it means missing goals from the rest of the roster that would get scored because of advantageous matchups.
I agree with you when it comes to guys like Zuccarello who are overmatched, but it doesn't explain why players like Stepan are struggling because they would be going up against the teams' top defenders anyway.

In 2010-11, Prospal and Gaborik missed time simultaneously, and later on Callahan missed a month and a half. Dubinsky and Anisimov were able to contribute on the first line against other team's top defenders. Boyle came out of nowhere and stepped up - this team needs that type of player who surprises and overperforms in spite of injuries. Sometimes teams with injuries find a way to weather the storm and score some goals, even if they aren't all that talented or don't have favorable matchups. It looks like this team isn't capable of that and they can't afford to wait around until everyone gets healthy because by then it may be too late to recover.

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10-29-2013, 10:05 AM
  #304
Thesensation19
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Originally Posted by WhatThePuck View Post
Seems like the same old story every year.....chances, chances and more chances... but nobody can finish !!
I believe in HQS and LQS.

Simply put. High Quality and Low Quality Shots.

High quality meaning good angles, odd-man advantages, short distance... its really up to interpretation.

Low quality being obviously the opposite.

90% of the games we have played under AV we have had a lot of LQS (or not many shots at all which is not good either) and very very very little HQS. While we have allowed our opponents a large amount of HQS (Open back door, odd man advantages, shots within 10 feet of the goalie, ineffective defensive rebounds).

Basically we have played really really really bad under AV in most of the games we have played.

Last night, the good news, was probably the best game we have played in a loss this season which is good news and I would probably like to say under my first impression of last nights game that both teams Quality of Shots were kinda even give or take 2 or 3.


The sad news is that I think both teams (which obv includes the Rangers) had very little HQS. Little meaning less than 10. I mean after the first period they showed 4-5 highlights and those highlights were all in the first two lines. After that we were a dud. lol.

The reason Montreal won was that they capitalized.
They had two RIDICULOUS HQS. One was practically a breakaway and another was a wide open net after an odd-man advantage.



It seems to me that the players we have are not good enough to play this sort of system.

Its simply a open hockey, pond hockey ordeal and many have already admitted to it. Its the kind of hockey played before the 80s and the only teams that play it effectively are ones who have real good talent on their rosters. Guys who all have high hockey IQ.

Brian Boyle... I like him. I think hes an effective player. But in this system. Not so much.

Brad Richards... Could be effective in this system, more effective at least... if he was younger and faster.

Taylor Pyatt. Not his style to play like this. He belongs on a Tortorella team 4th line and even then I was not happy with him. Maybe more under LA Kings or Maple Leafs style.

Derek Dorsett--- He plays the role of the 4th line tough guy. Played solid last night. But consistently has no hockey IQ


****Note.
The team did show improvement in the last few games but there are still many things I dont like. I will stop with the admiration I have for the 11-12 team and their potential because Sather has officially disbanded that team and turned us into the 11-12 Columbus Blue Jackets (Nash, Dorsett, Brassard and Arniel) and I hear hes in talks with Prospal.

There is nothing I can do about this so I refuse to cry over it anymore. But honstly it is sad lol.

I am more of a Sather fan than many of you are... I dont hate him for some of the contracts you all hate him for. But somethings just dont make sense to me.

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10-29-2013, 10:08 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
When Nash and Callahan are in they draw defensive attention and coverage. Right now you have guys who would normally be going up against second pairings trying to beat other teams' top defenders. It's more than a matter of missing the goals those guys contribute, it means missing goals from the rest of the roster that would get scored because of advantageous matchups.
I understand what your saying. But I hate that way of thinking in sports.

Its like you immediately give no hope to a team after a few injuries.

The best teams are built with depth and chemistry. We had that. (there I go again). Now we dont.

We traded it away for individuals and the problem with that is it usually never works out. Its a gamble. And what a bad gamble to make.

Has everyone forgot that the 2011-2012 team started in Europe and had to be away from home for a long time. Has everyone forgot that it was the year the Rangers was dealt many injuries with Callahan, Gaborik, Dubinsky, Saeur, Staal and a banged up team. A much younger team too.

Lets not forget that. Because that team blew by the excuses

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10-29-2013, 10:12 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
The breakout has a lot of issues and it limits our team.

We have 1 defender with the puck behind the net. Hes being pressured by opposition A.

His ONLY option in this system is a guy along the boards... Which could be fine and all if the opposing team wasnt so smart and cut off that pass.
They sometimes have a guy swoop in front of the net but hes so ineffective there.
Agree. what's frustrating is that we take it behind the net to "set it up" when often we don't need to which leads to a poor breakout. That first pass needs to be to a player who can be trusted to carry the puck out of the zone or make a solid pass and we don't have enough of those guys. So, taking the puck behind the net when we have other options is a losing proposition.

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10-29-2013, 10:14 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
I understand what your saying. But I hate that way of thinking in sports.

Its like you immediately give no hope to a team after a few injuries.

The best teams are built with depth and chemistry. We had that. (there I go again). Now we dont.

We traded it away for individuals and the problem with that is it usually never works out. Its a gamble. And what a bad gamble to make.

Has everyone forgot that the 2011-2012 team started in Europe and had to be away from home for a long time. Has everyone forgot that it was the year the Rangers was dealt many injuries with Callahan, Gaborik, Dubinsky, Saeur, Staal and a banged up team. A much younger team too.

Lets not forget that. Because that team blew by the excuses
That team didn't have a good start; they got better as time went on. Maybe this team can as well. But AV will need to figure out who deserves ice time and who doesn't.

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10-29-2013, 10:22 AM
  #308
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Stepan started very slow last year, as I (and others) killed him for it. That, coupled with the stupid holdout, are killing him.

He's skating in quicksand out there. If we weren't so absolutely bereft of talent right now, I'd say sit him...but....yeah, we just can't.

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10-29-2013, 10:27 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I imagine even the all mighty Torts would struggle with this current group. Considering its probably worse than last year's and is missing half it's top six... But let's pretend that isn't the case and just blame the current coach for not being able to turn **** into gold.
Yea I don't really agree with hating on AV at all at this point. We don't have players who can shoot or score. We have 1 currently in the line up right now - Brad Richards. Nash and Cally are the only other 2 players on this team who have at least an average to above average shot. Nash is great but he is no sniper like Gaborik was. Nash had a lot of breakaway goals last season and a handful of great wrist shots. For me, Richards and Nash are the only two players who I consider to have an okay chance of scoring when I see them shoot. Everyone else I have almost no expectation at this point.

Somehow Sather has built a team full of players who can't finish.

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10-29-2013, 10:49 AM
  #310
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The thing that bothers me the most is that it feels almost like the outcome of the game was a given considering the Rangers track record of disappointment. I try to suspend belief for every game but the one thing you can always rely on the Rangers to do is disappoint in these situations. To get shutout on home ice during the opener by a backup seems to fit the overall narrative of this franchise.

Why is it that we seem to have the same exact problems every single year? Not playing a full 60, bad starts, collapses, no goal scoring, no power play, no players with size, no crease clearing d-man, poor drafting, blah blah blah

It's so tiring and predictable at this point, is this really the best we have to look forward to year after year? Logic would suggest things have to turn around at some point but this seems more like a permanent reality than just a rough patch.

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10-29-2013, 01:03 PM
  #311
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No, not like we do. We get screwed at a higher rate, I've been a fan long enough.

Look, after the Miller no goal, we deserve to have a consistent call on kicking. Maybe you lose out on a goal here and there, but we lost, in the least, two regulation ties on a terrible interpretation of ONE rule. Maybe we win in OT or the shootout, maybe we lose outright. But we lost two out of two points in consecutive games because they have zero clue on a kick.

I'm fine with then losing because they suck and it might be that time to make that change. But I'm sick of the screw job and I'm not going to ignore the league bias just so some internet people will label me an "unbiased fan". I operate on evidence, so I will say with confidence that bettman is a terrible leader, Phoenix is a bad hockey city, Montreal and Pittsburgh get calls and we get screwed.

Drury got high sticked, rachunek didn't kick it in in the same game that pommenville punched one in. Crosby slewfooted callahan in the 7 power plays to none game. Kovalev elbowed hollweg. Just off the top of my head some of the most egregious examples of bias.
Okay, I'll bite.

Why do the refs hate the Rangers?

Prodding the paranoid.

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10-29-2013, 01:45 PM
  #312
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My personal favorite is Carkner, who has a reputation, grabbing and actually assaulting Brian Boyle and getting a game. Hagelin, who couldn't beat up a bumble bee, unintentionally elbows Alfredsson and gets 3 games.

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10-29-2013, 01:57 PM
  #313
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definitely not saying the refs hate the rangers, but that was not good officiating last night.

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10-29-2013, 02:30 PM
  #314
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Okay, I'll bite.

Why do the refs hate the Rangers?

Prodding the paranoid.
I don't think they hate any team. Refs, however, are proud individuals and they do hold against particular players and most definetely coaches for disrespectfut treatment and/or rude criticism. It could be a pay back to AV from previous season with VAN, who knows...

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10-29-2013, 02:33 PM
  #315
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I don't think they hate any team. Refs, however, are proud individuals and they do hold against particular players and most definetely coaches for disrespectfut treatment and/or rude criticism. It could be a pay back to AV from previous season with VAN, who knows...
AV is extremely polite with the refs. It has been mentioned multiple times by multiple broadcasters.

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10-29-2013, 02:47 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
AV is extremely polite with the refs. It has been mentioned multiple times by multiple broadcasters.
Yea, he normally is but sometimes he has called out the refs in public there was this and it mentions Auger too idk if AV was coach there at that time...

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ree-ohalloran/

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10-29-2013, 04:29 PM
  #317
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when you score exactly ZERO goals in any given game, wasting time writing about the refs is just silly.

and spare me, i dont care whos in net for the opposition. nhl goalies, on average, are very good at what they do. this guy played well but he is no better than anyone else. and he shut us out.

this team cannot score and thus we will not win. this is a direct results of 2 things.

1. injuries to our best goal scorers

2. an organizational failure to have any young guys who have even the slightest inclination to be able to score goals. we are void of offensive talent.

thats all that needs to be written.

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10-29-2013, 04:34 PM
  #318
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The refs aren't why the Rangers lost last night - this team stinking is the reason the Rangers lost.

For every egregious example of injustice referenced over the past several years, I can reference an instance where the Rangers benefited from a call. Thats how it goes.

Put no refs out there and this team still wouldn't be able to score in a whorehouse.

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10-29-2013, 04:41 PM
  #319
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Completely agree it certainly doesn't help but it's not the only reason the lack of scoring would do it

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10-29-2013, 05:17 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I don't think they hate any team. Refs, however, are proud individuals and they do hold against particular players and most definetely coaches for disrespectfut treatment and/or rude criticism. It could be a pay back to AV from previous season with VAN, who knows...
Fans of every team think that a loss may have been caused by the refs. They never think a win was caused by the ref. Funny how that works.

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