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Talk Slowly and Use Small Words, its the Michael Del Zotto Thread

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Old
10-25-2013, 11:54 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
What the hell is everyones obsession with Downie who is a UFA and ANOTHER RW? Seriously...
he brings something this team lacks.. emotion and the ability to get the best players off of their game... Rangers dont have any grit, emotion or intestity in their line up... scoring goals is also a problem and Downie can do that as well.... 1 goal 4 assist 5 pts 36 pim..


Downie would be tied with Stepan for pts with 5...1st with +4 2ed in PIM with 36.

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10-25-2013, 11:57 AM
  #152
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he brings something this team lacks.. emotion and the ability to get the best players off of their game... Rangers dont have any grit, emotion or intestity in their line up... scoring goals is also a problem and Downie can do that as well.... 1 goal 4 assist 5 pts 36 pim..


Downie would be tied with Stepan for pts with 5...1st with +4 2ed in PIM with 36.
He is a UFA and he plays RW. Again, why are the Rangers going to look at trading for him?

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10-25-2013, 12:09 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
He is a UFA and he plays RW. Again, why are the Rangers going to look at trading for him?
Well, first I would shift Nash to LW.

He scored about 40% of his goals from the Left side for the Rangers last year.

Yes he was playing RW predominantly, but he can be a very effective LW'er as well.

Plus Downie embodies the type of player that we need to populate the Rangers roster.

So even if Nash stayed as RW'er, I would MUCH rather perfwer Downie as the teams 3rd line RW over any roster player we have or any minor leaguer we have in the system.

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10-25-2013, 12:12 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
He is a UFA and he plays RW. Again, why are the Rangers going to look at trading for him?
its Sather... why did he trade for John Scott.. he had no use on this team when Rangers traded for him

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10-25-2013, 12:14 PM
  #155
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Well, first I would shift Nash to LW.

He scored about 40% of his goals from the Left side for the Rangers last year.

Yes he was playing RW predominantly, but he can be a very effective LW'er as well.

Plus Downie embodies the type of player that we need to populate the Rangers roster.

So even if Nash stayed as RW'er, I would MUCH rather perfwer Downie as the teams 3rd line RW over any roster player we have or any minor leaguer we have in the system.
The Rangers have stated Nash is more comfortable and more effective at RW. Why are they moving their 7.8 million dollar player who scores their goals elsewhere in the line-up to accommodate a player who they have to trade for?

How much will Downie want as a UFA. Are you willing to pay him 4 million/season to be this teams 3rd line winger? I'm not. Who's to say he will even re-sign in NY if they trade for him?

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10-25-2013, 12:24 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
The Rangers have stated Nash is more comfortable and more effective at RW. Why are they moving their 7.8 million dollar player who scores their goals elsewhere in the line-up to accommodate a player who they have to trade for?

How much will Downie want as a UFA. Are you willing to pay him 4 million/season to be this teams 3rd line winger? I'm not. Who's to say he will even re-sign in NY if they trade for him?
Nash himself has said that he's OK playing either side and that playing the LW allows him the ability to shield the puck better between himself and opposing defenceman. I have no doubt in my mind that he can (and he has) make the shift to LW better than Gaborik did or could.

I wouldn't have an issue paying Downie 3.0 to 3.5 playing 3rd line RW because we are getting a quality hockey player that understands the game. Additionally, should Nash show comfort as the teams #1 LW'er, Downie is no longer the teams 3rd line RW.

In fact, I would have him play top line RW not because he's some super talented player, we all know that eh is not. But rather because he knows what his strengths are. Physical, go to the net presense that WILL draw attention. Plus he's not going to allow the ****ing Brad Stuarts of the world to light up our top sniper. He's also not going to allow Nash to step in for Stepan.

Downie, for all his warts, is a solid physical player with talent.

something we have one of. Callahan.

Not good enough.

And Salary would not be an issue if we were not paying useless crabs like Boyle, Pyatt and Zuccs over a million each.

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10-25-2013, 12:28 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Nash himself has said that he's OK playing either side and that playing the LW allows him the ability to shield the puck better between himself and opposing defenceman. I have no doubt in my mind that he can (and he has) make the shift to LW better than Gaborik did or could.

I wouldn't have an issue paying Downie 3.0 to 3.5 playing 3rd line RW because we are getting a quality hockey player that understands the game. Additionally, should Nash show comfort as the teams #1 LW'er, Downie is no longer the teams 3rd line RW.

In fact, I would have him play top line RW not because he's some super talented player, we all know that eh is not. But rather because he knows what his strengths are. Physical, go to the net presense that WILL draw attention. Plus he's not going to allow the ****ing Brad Stuarts of the world to light up our top sniper. He's also not going to allow Nash to step in for Stepan.

Downie, for all his warts, is a solid physical player with talent.

something we have one of. Callahan.

Not good enough.

And Salary would not be an issue if we were not paying useless crabs like Boyle, Pyatt and Zuccs over a million each.
MDZ for Downie is an AWFUL deal. Plain and simple. I don't care what type of player Downie is and how much his "style" of play would help this club. A 23 year old top-4 defenseman for a pending UFA is a great way to go back into the Dark Ages.

Downie makes 2.65 now. You think he will get 3 on the open market? Much more reasonable to expect that number to be above 4 million/season.

Salary is always an issue.

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10-25-2013, 12:31 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
MDZ for Downie is an AWFUL deal. Plain and simple. I don't care what type of player Downie is and how much his "style" of play would help this club. A 23 year old top-4 defenseman for a pending UFA is a great way to go back into the Dark Ages.

Downie makes 2.65 now. You think he will get 3 on the open market? Much more reasonable to expect that number to be above 4 million/season.

Salary is always an issue.
Let me fix that for you.

MDZ is AWFUL


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10-29-2013, 11:24 PM
  #159
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Another brutal game - he just cannot receive a pass at the blue line.

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10-30-2013, 07:10 AM
  #160
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MDZ's having a ton of issues controlling the puck this season, and has been bobbling it out of the zone way too often. He's also in the habit of making bad turnovers at or behind his own net.

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10-30-2013, 07:24 AM
  #161
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If Del Zotto can't contribute to running the powerplay, hes as good as gone on this team.

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10-30-2013, 07:26 AM
  #162
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Worst player on the team right now, even Pyatt is arguably more useful.

He has zero confidence on the blueline.

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10-30-2013, 07:43 AM
  #163
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What a pass off the bottom of the glass right on Pouliot's stick that led to his goal though.

Oh wait, we aren't supposed to speak of anything positive here...what am I thinking!?!

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10-30-2013, 08:31 AM
  #164
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Not against the idea altogether. I just think the Rangers should get a little more back than Downie and maybe some kind of additional draft pick if Downie doesn't re-sign.

Rangers could use Downie's grit but he hasn't really developed his offensive game to the expectations when he was drafted. He's a one time 20 goal scorer and a one time 40 point scorer.

Downie + 2014 2nd?-3rd? rd pick for Del Zotto with a 2015 2nd round pick coming the Rangers way if Downie doesn't re-sign. I think I'd be okay with that.

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10-30-2013, 08:33 AM
  #165
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Not against the idea altogether. I just think the Rangers should get a little more back than Downie and maybe some kind of additional draft pick if Downie doesn't re-sign.

Rangers could use Downie's grit but he hasn't really developed his offensive game to the expectations when he was drafted. He's a one time 20 goal scorer and a one time 40 point scorer.

Downie + 2014 2nd?-3rd? rd pick for Del Zotto with a 2015 2nd round pick coming the Rangers way if Downie doesn't re-sign. I think I'd be okay with that.
Really underselling MDZ. If Downie walks, they get (2) 2nd round picks for a 23 year old top-4 40 point d-man? That sounds like good value?

Tim Erixon, who had never played in the NHL and was not willing to sign with Calgary returned (2) 2nd's and Roman Horak

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10-30-2013, 08:33 AM
  #166
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I like Downie a lot actually. And am not high on MDZ dating back years. But that would be an awful trade for the Rangers.

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10-30-2013, 08:39 AM
  #167
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Anyway Del Zotto's better on the left side. On the right side he's a disaster waiting to happen. The one area that's his strength is his offense. He really needs to accentuate that and get into the 50--not 40 point range to become a legit offensive blueline player. It doesn't look like it's going to be happening again this year and with his own contract coming up and if the stats aren't there I can't see any reason for the Rangers doing more for him than the qualifying offer. Said this last year that he's looked to me to have plateaued. This season there is even more evidence. His play would probably be better from the left side. It's almost a moot point though with McDonagh and Staal already there. He's a good player even if he's struggling now. I wouldn't move him unless I got something back that I really wanted.

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10-30-2013, 08:51 AM
  #168
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Really underselling MDZ. If Downie walks, they get (2) 2nd round picks for a 23 year old top-4 40 point d-man? That sounds like good value?

Tim Erixon, who had never played in the NHL and was not willing to sign with Calgary returned (2) 2nd's and Roman Horak
Del Zotto's career so far looks like Matt Carle. Both Downie and Del Zotto have one thing in common--they've crossed the 40 point barrier one time. Del Zotto's strengths are his offensive instincts--he's average defensively on the left side and a disaster waiting to happen on the right side. He had 37 points as a rookie and his stats have never really improved much off of that. We've been waiting, waiting and waiting for him to raise those numbers. He really needs to get into the 50's to legitimately be considered an offensive blue line threat. Personally and I've been saying it since at least last year I think Del Zotto has plateaued as a player. The difference stat wise in the strongest part of his game--offense--has not to any substantial degree improved. 37 points as a rookie--41 points three years later--1 point in 9 games this year. Not a legit pwp quarterback. The 40 points?--arguably Moore or McDonagh could do the same if their pwp time increased.

Anyway the deal gives us Downie for one year and (2) 2nd rounders or Downie and (1) 2nd rounder--which is a better than just Downie straight up.

It should be kept in mind as well that this is a contract year for Del Zotto too. That more than likely he's going to want a lot more than the $2.5 mil or so he's earning now. Again--what I've seen he would not get more than a qualifying offer. He has not raised his game from the level he was at when he got the previous contract.

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10-30-2013, 08:52 AM
  #169
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Anyway Del Zotto's better on the left side. On the right side he's a disaster waiting to happen. The one area that's his strength is his offense. He really needs to accentuate that and get into the 50--not 40 point range to become a legit offensive blueline player. It doesn't look like it's going to be happening again this year and with his own contract coming up and if the stats aren't there I can't see any reason for the Rangers doing more for him than the qualifying offer. Said this last year that he's looked to me to have plateaued. This season there is even more evidence. His play would probably be better from the left side. It's almost a moot point though with McDonagh and Staal already there. He's a good player even if he's struggling now. I wouldn't move him unless I got something back that I really wanted.

If Staal doesn't get his head out of his ass, that might not be as much of a moot point as you think. While people with axes to grind have been slamming MDZ (who, you know, was a +1 and had the assist on the game winning goal last night), Staal has consistently been our worst defenseman this season (once again, Staal was on the ice for both goals against and none of the goals for). MDZ has played his best hockey getting big minutes on the left side--coincidentally, the same stretches of time that he filled in for an injured Staal.

I never would have thought of saying this in the past (I've always considered Staal to be our best D, even better than McD), but based on what we've seen so far? I move Staal before I move MDZ.

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10-30-2013, 08:54 AM
  #170
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Del Zotto's career so far looks like Matt Carle. Both Downie and Del Zotto have one thing in common--they've crossed the 40 point barrier one time. Del Zotto's strengths are his offensive instincts--he's average defensively on the left side and a disaster waiting to happen on the right side. He had 37 points as a rookie and his stats have never really improved much off of that. We've been waiting, waiting and waiting for him to raise those numbers. He really needs to get into the 50's to legitimately be considered an offensive blue line threat. Personally and I've been saying it since at least last year I think Del Zotto has plateaued as a player. The difference stat wise in the strongest part of his game--offense--has not to any substantial degree improved. 37 points as a rookie--41 points three years later--1 point in 9 games this year. Not a legit pwp quarterback. The 40 points?--arguably Moore or McDonagh could do the same if their pwp time increased.

Anyway the deal gives us Downie for one year and (2) 2nd rounders or Downie and (1) 2nd rounder--which is a better than just Downie straight up.
But 40 points from a defenseman >>>> 40 point from a forward

I get what you are doing because I agree, the team needs a player like Downie or Clifford, but I don't think that is the correct deal, that's all.

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10-30-2013, 08:57 AM
  #171
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mdz's first few strides are like hes skating in quick sand against the wind with a parachute on his back up hill.

hes got lobster claws for hands lately and his decision making, i.e., panic with puck quotient, is very high.

on a good team, hes a 3rd pair guy playing against weaker forwards.

you cannot even say hes a specialty/pp guy with his girlie man shot and inability to keep the puck in the zone.

move.him.please.

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10-30-2013, 09:10 AM
  #172
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But 40 points from a defenseman >>>> 40 point from a forward

I get what you are doing because I agree, the team needs a player like Downie or Clifford, but I don't think that is the correct deal, that's all.
That's one reason why I'd want more than just Downie but Downie could also bring other intangibles and MDZ doesn't have much of in that regard. Downie potentially does for the Rangers what Sean Avery did for them when he first came to Broadway. He makes them a harder not so much fun team to play against--just because of the 'I'm an a**hole factor'.

MDZ is average defensively left side--tries to play physical but is not very strong and his offensive game doesn't appear to be improving. There's no real intangibles there. He's never going to be great defensively because of his size, skating and his proneness to cough up pucks. Where he can improve is on the stat sheet and 5 seasons after his rookie year--there's no real improvement from then to now.

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10-30-2013, 09:35 AM
  #173
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If Staal doesn't get his head out of his ass, that might not be as much of a moot point as you think. While people with axes to grind have been slamming MDZ (who, you know, was a +1 and had the assist on the game winning goal last night), Staal has consistently been our worst defenseman this season (once again, Staal was on the ice for both goals against and none of the goals for). MDZ has played his best hockey getting big minutes on the left side--coincidentally, the same stretches of time that he filled in for an injured Staal.

I never would have thought of saying this in the past (I've always considered Staal to be our best D, even better than McD), but based on what we've seen so far? I move Staal before I move MDZ.
Hard to blame anyone on the ice for the second goal against, but it sure wasn't Marc Staal flailing like a ding dong as the puck bounced off him and in the net.

Okay great he gets the +1 on the same goal he assisted on so his stat line looks nice on paper because of one good shift in one game. In reality for most nights this season he has shown that his confidence level is zero and he cannot handle passes at the blueline. His defense is suspect as well but considering the hopes people have for MDZ offensively his defensive play is largely irrelevant. As of right now the only reason he probably hasn't been traded or sat is because there is absolutely no one who can eat up his, or someone elses who replaces his, minutes. He is still useful in a defensive roll and until that ceases or they can replace that, he stays. His value is in being offensively minded and gifted, if he cannot deliver on that his usefulness to the organization is very little. He has more value as a turn around project who needs a change of scenery to another team, than as simply a top4 D who cannot overcome his mental issues to the Rangers.

Move Staal before DZ? Maybe if they were going to rebuild, but in that scenario move both. The idea of moving Staal over DZ is a rather questionable stance to take.

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10-30-2013, 11:34 AM
  #174
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If I'm the GM, there's no way I'm moving Del Zotto for a bunch of reasons:

1.) He's, what, 23? Most D hit their prime late 20's
2.) He's under contract and a pending RFA (so, at least two more years at terms that are more favorable to the NYR)
3.) He's certainly not playing his best = trade value is lower
4.) If the NYR are trading a D, it should be Danny G or Anton because the are both pending UFA's and could play for any team in the league and bring back a decent return.

I'm not arguing the sentiment that he hasn't been great, but he's not the guy I'd be looking to move if I expected to get value back.

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10-30-2013, 12:09 PM
  #175
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Haven't seen the goal since last night but did DZ really pass the puck to Pouliot off the glass, or did he just shoot it to get it out of the zone and get a good bounce?

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