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Old
12-13-2006, 03:58 PM
  #26
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With the return of Higgins, i think the best fit is...

Higgs-Koivu-Kovy
Sammy-Pleks-Ryder
Perez-Bonk-Johnson
Tender-Lappy-Begin

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Old
12-13-2006, 04:06 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komi#1 View Post
With the return of Higgins, i think the best fit is...

Higgs-Koivu-Kovy
Sammy-Pleks-Ryder
Perez-Bonk-Johnson
Tender-Lappy-Begin
Exactly my lines!!!

And you're right, Sammy is really a God!

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Old
12-13-2006, 05:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
I think Gainey will try to re-sign Bonk, who has been excellent this season as the third line center.
Are you saying Gainey will accept to pay his 3rd line center (who will be UFA) around or over 3M$? Or maybe Bonk will take a paycut like many UFA's do to play for us.

Neither propositions make any sense to me.

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12-13-2006, 05:02 PM
  #29
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I think it's safe to say that Pleckanek will be taking Bonk's place (Bonk is UFA and getting older) as the 3rd line center, for the next 10 years.... He is a great 2-way forward but he is much more usefull playing againts the other team's star players
I hope that next year's lines we will be seeing something like

Higgins-Koivu-Latednresse
Kostitsyn/Samsonov-Grabovsky-Kovalev/Ryder
Perezhogin-Pleckanek-Chipchura/Johnson
Bégin-Lappierre-Ferland/Murray/Downey

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Old
12-13-2006, 06:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by sXe View Post
Are you saying Gainey will accept to pay his 3rd line center (who will be UFA) around or over 3M$? Or maybe Bonk will take a paycut like many UFA's do to play for us.

Neither propositions make any sense to me.
Why do you assume Bonk will get $3m+ offers on the open market? I don't see him getting any more than $2m on the open market. Maybe $2.2m at most. Same deal for Mike Johnson.

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Old
12-13-2006, 07:33 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komi#1 View Post
With the return of Higgins, i think the best fit is...

Higgs-Koivu-Kovy
Sammy-Pleks-Ryder
Perez-Bonk-Johnson
Tender-Lappy-Begin
That's the way I see it. But, to bring my input, I'd like to replace Lappy by Grabs : he will get used to play in the NHL, he will get used to play with Latendresse (both would mesh...), and he could turn take over the second line spot if he beats Pleks to it. Lats is not that green anymore and Begin is a young vet, so I think briging Grabs to the mix who heat things up.

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Old
12-13-2006, 09:33 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Personally, and as a fan who thinks he has the potential to do so, I would like to see him light the lamp and produce consistently.
I can see him produce consistently-ish if he loses one of the two russians and gets a goal scorer (Higgins, Ryder, Lats). I can't honestly see both of those guys with their salaries staying with the club for the rest of the season, especially not for the rest of their contracts.

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Old
12-13-2006, 09:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Why do you assume Bonk will get $3m+ offers on the open market? I don't see him getting any more than $2m on the open market. Maybe $2.2m at most. Same deal for Mike Johnson.
If we want to re-sign Ryder, Perezhogin, Komisarek, Plekanec, Higgins + our important UFAs (Markov, Souray, Rivet) I doubt we'll be able to keep either Johnson or Bonk... Luckily we have players in the orginization who can fill their roles, ex;

Higgins - Koivu - Ryder
Samsonov/Kost - Grabovski - Kovalev (if neither of the russians are traded)
Perezhogin - Plekanec - Latendresse
Ferland - Lapierre - Begin

Or something similar... We'll be forced to see more players from the farm team then we expected imo, if we keep all of our RFAs + important UFAs.

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Old
12-13-2006, 09:54 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by sXe View Post
Are you saying Gainey will accept to pay his 3rd line center (who will be UFA) around or over 3M$? Or maybe Bonk will take a paycut like many UFA's do to play for us.

Neither propositions make any sense to me.
Bonk probably wouldn't be able to make more than his present salary, much less get the $3M+ you're suggesting. Secondly, he seems to have found his niche in Montréal. He never was a scoring machine and there's less pressure on him now.

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12-13-2006, 09:56 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Bonk probably wouldn't be able to make more than his present salary, much less get the $3M+ you're suggesting. Secondly, he seems to have found his niche in Montréal. He never was a scoring machine and there's less pressure on him now.
Chances are that he could get more money on the market than we're prepared to offer him though. We have a ton of people to sign this off-season, all of which have priority over Bonk (Komi, Perez, Higgs, Ryder, Plekanec, Markov, Rivet, Sourray). If we dump Bonk, Johnson and either Sammy or Kovalev's salaries, their's a chance we could sign all of those guys...which imo would be best for the team.

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Old
12-13-2006, 10:16 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If we want to re-sign Ryder, Perezhogin, Komisarek, Plekanec, Higgins + our important UFAs (Markov, Souray, Rivet) I doubt we'll be able to keep either Johnson or Bonk... Luckily we have players in the orginization who can fill their roles, ex;

Higgins - Koivu - Ryder
Samsonov/Kost - Grabovski - Kovalev (if neither of the russians are traded)
Perezhogin - Plekanec - Latendresse
Ferland - Lapierre - Begin

Or something similar... We'll be forced to see more players from the farm team then we expected imo, if we keep all of our RFAs + important UFAs.
Neither Kovalev nor Samsonov will be traded because the acquiring team would have to take on their salaries. The GMs would have to think twice even if the caps are raised. There are better bargains out there. Perhaps Carbonneau will get around to pairing Kovalev with Koivu and uniting Plekanec with Perezhogin and Kostitsyn or Ryder.

If Bonk and Johnson are let go, Gainey would have to replace them on a third line with with less experienced players who probably would not perform as well in their first season together. This is unfortunate. I doubt whether a line of Perezhogin-Lapierre-Ferland, for example, would have equivalent +/- ratings. Maybe Kostitsyn would be a better choice than Ferland, and maybe Lapierre belongs on the fourth line.

Cutting Murray and Downey would be logical but the savings would be peanuts.

One player who could easily be spared next season is Aebischer. Other savings could come from paring the glut of Dmen. It would be a shame to lose Markov or Souray, though. Rivet isn't indispensable. Niinimaa certainly isn't.

I'd go out on a limb and predict that Plekanec's numbers will be much better next season.

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Old
12-13-2006, 10:28 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If we want to re-sign Ryder, Perezhogin, Komisarek, Plekanec, Higgins + our important UFAs (Markov, Souray, Rivet) I doubt we'll be able to keep either Johnson or Bonk... Luckily we have players in the orginization who can fill their roles, ex;

Higgins - Koivu - Ryder
Samsonov/Kost - Grabovski - Kovalev (if neither of the russians are traded)
Perezhogin - Plekanec - Latendresse
Ferland - Lapierre - Begin

Or something similar... We'll be forced to see more players from the farm team then we expected imo, if we keep all of our RFAs + important UFAs.
I don't think Perezhogin or Plekanec are in line for any major raises. Komisarek will get a raise, but not to anything extraordinary, in my view. Likely $1.5m. Higgins will likely get bumped up to $2m.

Among those four, I'd say the team's in line for around $2m in raises (considering that Higgins had a signing bonus this season, correct me if I'm wrong).


That leaves Ryder, among those RFAs. I don't think he's in line for a major pay-rise, but he is coming up to his UFA years. So it will be interesting if he gets a one-year deal, or a longer-term (read: more money) contract. Either way, I don't see him earning more than $3-3.2m. Let's call it another $1m.

Say the salary cap goes up a conservative $2m.

Now that leaves Markov, Rivet, Souray, who are earning roughly a combined $7m right now.

Markov's tough to gauge. I don't know what his market value would be. I can see him signing on for $4m, but then a guy like Kubina made $5m. So I could see him priced at $5m. Let's face it: while he's a genius hockey mind, he hasn't ever proven he could bring it in the clutch, and he has consistency issues.

Rivet's likely in the same neighbourhood he is now, but let's give him a 500k raise to $3m.

Souray is another tough one to gauge. Say he continues healthily and productively and notches 55-60 points and 20 goals. Then puts together a decent to good playoff performance and remains a spokesman for the team with the media. That could price him in the $4.5 - 5m range. I don't think anyone gives him any more than that, but that seems likely. If that's the case, and Montreal gets him for that (regardless of whether I/we believe he's worth it), then we're looking at paying Markov, Rivet and Souray a combined $11m. So we're giving them $4m raises combined.

Add that to the $3m to the RFAs, and that's $7m extra.

We're raising the cap by $2m in this half-serious look at the cap, remember.

Let's assume we're right up against the cap as we stand now, because I don't want to dig up and see how close we are exactly, and we're only half-serious in this hypothetical look-at-the future, right?

Okay, so we have $2m extra to spend and we've spent $7m extra.

...

Niinimaa's off the books. That's $2.5m (I believe it's a little more, but we'll call it even). So now we've got $4.5m to spend and we've spent $7m of that.

Aebischer's off the books, and he's $1.9m, so we've now got $6.4m to spend and we've spent $7m of that.

...

Wait! We've got to have a back-up in his place, if we're to rid Abby from the books. Will Danis or Halak be ready? Is Huet capable of playing 60 games without a proven back-up ready to pinch in should he faulter? This is where our conservative numbers enable us to be a little aggressive and assume one of Danis or Halak or one of the many goaltenders out there on waivers would be sufficient in the back-up role for a low price of $500k.

So now we've got $5.9m to spend and we've spent $7m of that.


Consider the fact that Montreal is carrying two defensemen who have proven to be very versatile (Streit, Dandenault), and can fill-in at forward if injuries arise. That enables the team to run with 12 forwards, 7 defensemen next season, should the team need to save every penny. That eliminates $500k. So we've just eliminated the $500k that the new Canadiens backup is making!

We're back up to $6.4m of the $7m spent.

Johnson's at $1.8m. Bonk's at $2.4m. I don't see Bonk getting that kind of money on the open market. A guy like Anson Carter had a hard time finding a job after a career-offensive year, afterall. We don't see many defensive centers putting up anywhere between 4 to 16 goals getting much money these days, do we?

Even The Great Leaf, Mike Peca, who enjoyed the spotlight down the stretch in the playoffs got a mere $2.5m.

So chop off a bit of Bonk's salary, add a bit to Johnson, and find another way to slim down, and suddenly the team's kept intact, with giant raises to the 'big three'.

And yeah, I realize this is a half-assed attempt at a look at the payroll next season, but the fact of the matter is that I don't believe Montreal's personnel will change much unless the coaching/management staff wants it to. I believe Bonk and Johnson are considered borderline integral/core players to Montreal's success to date, and unless they disappoint down the stretch and/or in the playoffs, I believe that they'll be returning to Montreal unless the team;

a) acquires a better alternative (see: another C, to allow Plekanec to slip into a more natural third-line role);

b) feels strongly that there are sufficient replacements in the system.

Myself, I'm skeptical that either a or b can be done. One aspect of Bonk's game that goes unmentioned is his strength. While he doesn't throw the body around, he controls the play down low in both ends of the ice. The team with Koivu, Plekanec down the middle without a major presence down-low has a glaring weakness.

As far as B goes, Johnson and Bonk are (much to my surprise) bringing a grizzled-vet, lunch pail approach to their jobs. Perezhogin, while impressive, is not a factor in their respective games. He complements them. Bonk and Johnson would play their games regardless of who the third man is on that line. They're smothering opposition top lines, and keeping the puck in the offensive zone more often than not. That play is irreplaceable by a rookie.

Judging by Gainey's history of being cautious and keeping assets as much as possible to have his bases covered, I don't see the team turning to many rookies next season, and I don't see him letting Johnson/Bonk loose when they're proven commodities under his reign ... Not unless they unexpectedly faulter down the stretch, as mentioned.

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Old
12-13-2006, 10:32 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Neither Kovalev nor Samsonov will be traded because the acquiring team would have to take on their salaries. The GMs would have to think twice even if the caps are raised. There are better bargains out there. Perhaps Carbonneau will get around to pairing Kovalev with Koivu and uniting Plekanec with Perezhogin and Kostitsyn or Ryder.

If Bonk and Johnson are let go, Gainey would have to replace them on a third line with with less experienced players who probably would not perform as well in their first season together. This is unfortunate. I doubt whether a line of Perezhogin-Lapierre-Ferland, for example, would have equivalent +/- ratings. Maybe Kostitsyn would be a better choice than Ferland, and maybe Lapierre belongs on the fourth line.

Cutting Murray and Downey would be logical but the savings would be peanuts.

One player who could easily be spared next season is Aebischer. Other savings could come from paring the glut of Dmen. It would be a shame to lose Markov or Souray, though. Rivet isn't indispensable. Niinimaa certainly isn't.

I'd go out on a limb and predict that Plekanec's numbers will be much better next season.
Imo, we'll definitely find a way to lose Samsonov or Kovalev...if not, we'll lose Ryder (no question about it). Ryder will probably be asking for 2.5-3m+ if he puts up 25-30 goals, which we could afford if we resign the more important players; Higgins, will at least get 2m, Plekanec for 1m, Perez for 1m, Komisarek should be in for near 2m, Markov will be 4m+, and at least one of Souray or Rivet will be re-signed and could run up 4m+ (Souray).

Even if it's only for a 4th-5th round pick and a little bit of salary dump, Gainey will try to get one of the russians on their way out, instead of Ryder (imo).

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12-13-2006, 10:44 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I don't think Perezhogin or Plekanec are in line for any major raises. Komisarek will get a raise, but not to anything extraordinary, in my view. Likely $1.5m. Higgins will likely get bumped up to $2m.

Among those four, I'd say the team's in line for around $2m in raises (considering that Higgins had a signing bonus this season, correct me if I'm wrong).


That leaves Ryder, among those RFAs. I don't think he's in line for a major pay-rise, but he is coming up to his UFA years. So it will be interesting if he gets a one-year deal, or a longer-term (read: more money) contract. Either way, I don't see him earning more than $3-3.2m. Let's call it another $1m.

Say the salary cap goes up a conservative $2m.

Now that leaves Markov, Rivet, Souray, who are earning roughly a combined $7m right now.

Markov's tough to gauge. I don't know what his market value would be. I can see him signing on for $4m, but then a guy like Kubina made $5m. So I could see him priced at $5m. Let's face it: while he's a genius hockey mind, he hasn't ever proven he could bring it in the clutch, and he has consistency issues.

Rivet's likely in the same neighbourhood he is now, but let's give him a 500k raise to $3m.

Souray is another tough one to gauge. Say he continues healthily and productively and notches 55-60 points and 20 goals. Then puts together a decent to good playoff performance and remains a spokesman for the team with the media. That could price him in the $4.5 - 5m range. I don't think anyone gives him any more than that, but that seems likely. If that's the case, and Montreal gets him for that (regardless of whether I/we believe he's worth it), then we're looking at paying Markov, Rivet and Souray a combined $11m. So we're giving them $4m raises combined.

Add that to the $3m to the RFAs, and that's $7m extra.

We're raising the cap by $2m in this half-serious look at the cap, remember.

Let's assume we're right up against the cap as we stand now, because I don't want to dig up and see how close we are exactly, and we're only half-serious in this hypothetical look-at-the future, right?

Okay, so we have $2m extra to spend and we've spent $7m extra.

...

Niinimaa's off the books. That's $2.5m (I believe it's a little more, but we'll call it even). So now we've got $4.5m to spend and we've spent $7m of that.

Aebischer's off the books, and he's $1.9m, so we've now got $6.4m to spend and we've spent $7m of that.

...

Wait! We've got to have a back-up in his place, if we're to rid Abby from the books. Will Danis or Halak be ready? Is Huet capable of playing 60 games without a proven back-up ready to pinch in should he faulter? This is where our conservative numbers enable us to be a little aggressive and assume one of Danis or Halak or one of the many goaltenders out there on waivers would be sufficient in the back-up role for a low price of $500k.

So now we've got $5.9m to spend and we've spent $7m of that.


Consider the fact that Montreal is carrying two defensemen who have proven to be very versatile (Streit, Dandenault), and can fill-in at forward if injuries arise. That enables the team to run with 12 forwards, 7 defensemen next season, should the team need to save every penny. That eliminates $500k. So we've just eliminated the $500k that the new Canadiens backup is making!

We're back up to $6.4m of the $7m spent.

Johnson's at $1.8m. Bonk's at $2.4m. I don't see Bonk getting that kind of money on the open market. A guy like Anson Carter had a hard time finding a job after a career-offensive year, afterall. We don't see many defensive centers putting up anywhere between 4 to 16 goals getting much money these days, do we?

Even The Great Leaf, Mike Peca, who enjoyed the spotlight down the stretch in the playoffs got a mere $2.5m.

So chop off a bit of Bonk's salary, add a bit to Johnson, and find another way to slim down, and suddenly the team's kept intact, with giant raises to the 'big three'.

And yeah, I realize this is a half-assed attempt at a look at the payroll next season, but the fact of the matter is that I don't believe Montreal's personnel will change much unless the coaching/management staff wants it to. I believe Bonk and Johnson are considered borderline integral/core players to Montreal's success to date, and unless they disappoint down the stretch and/or in the playoffs, I believe that they'll be returning to Montreal unless the team;

a) acquires a better alternative (see: another C, to allow Plekanec to slip into a more natural third-line role);

b) feels strongly that there are sufficient replacements in the system.

Myself, I'm skeptical that either a or b can be done. One aspect of Bonk's game that goes unmentioned is his strength. While he doesn't throw the body around, he controls the play down low in both ends of the ice. The team with Koivu, Plekanec down the middle without a major presence down-low has a glaring weakness.

As far as B goes, Johnson and Bonk are (much to my surprise) bringing a grizzled-vet, lunch pail approach to their jobs. Perezhogin, while impressive, is not a factor in their respective games. He complements them. Bonk and Johnson would play their games regardless of who the third man is on that line. They're smothering opposition top lines, and keeping the puck in the offensive zone more often than not. That play is irreplaceable by a rookie.

Judging by Gainey's history of being cautious and keeping assets as much as possible to have his bases covered, I don't see the team turning to many rookies next season, and I don't see him letting Johnson/Bonk loose when they're proven commodities under his reign ... Not unless they unexpectedly faulter down the stretch, as mentioned.
Wize man bringing up the numbers Eh

Alright I'll give my thoughts on it

First I'm signing Markov to a $4-4.5m (possibly 5m)
Second I'm giving Higgins a $2-2.5m deal
Third, I'm going to attempt signing Souray at $4-4.5m (might even take 5m)
Fourth, I'll re-sign Komisarek at $1.5-2m

Right there that's about a 7m increase (if we can resign souray, if not it's about 5m), but let's assume the cap goes up by 4m.

Now, I've got to resign a few other players.

Perezhogin and Plekanec will go at 1m a pop (maybe a tad more)
Ryder will likely go to arbitration for something near 3m$
Rivet, we'll let him go if Souray re-signs if not we're on the books for about 3m$

now their's another 1.75ish million dollars in capspace (if we resign Souray, if not it's about 2.75) bringing our total to 8.75 if we keep souray and about 7.75 if we don't.

With that, we're 4m above the cap space, but we'll let go of Aebischer and Niinimaa, which gives us about .4m room to wiggle with (if we account to Bonk and Johnson's current salaries)

Basically all this to say, that I believe we can keep either one, and I think BG would like to keep Johnson ahead of Bonk, because he's more versatile.

Ps: My numbers might be way off, because I winged it.

Pss: Note that Kostitsyn will have to be on the roster by the end of the season (or traded, which I don't think would go well with Grabovksi and S.Kostitsyn), which books us for another .8m (I believe).

Psss: Downey will be off the books, which cleas .450m (I believe)

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12-13-2006, 10:59 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Perezhogin and Plekanec will go at 1m a pop (maybe a tad more)
Why? Neither of them are putting up great numbers. Plekanec, while solid, is likely to end up with less than 40 points this season. I don't see how he would get such a raise. I see $800k, but not $1m. It's peanuts, but it makes a difference here.

Perezhogin, same boat.

Consider the fact that Higgins had a tremendous finish to last season, and yet made very little extra.

Consider that players in this age-bracket are in no real position of power, and are usually kept to less than $1m salaries until they approach UFA-age, or until they explode offensively.

These are ideal players to have because they're fundamentally sound, they're versatile, and they're cheap for the next few years. They're not in line for any major pay-rise until they've solidified a role for themselves, and neither Perez nor Plekanec have really asserted themselves yet into a defined role.

So while we're maybe talking about $400k between these two players, I think it's important to make the distinction that these players will make very little until they've established themselves.

Similarly, Kostitsyn is in line for a new contract next season. He's currently making what, $850k? On a two-way deal, too. So expect that number to go down to around $500-600k, and all of a sudden he's a more attractive every-day player for Montreal because he's all the more affordable. It's peanuts, but it counts.


Any way you cut it, given Montreal's depth, the team is in a position of power. There is cap-room to maneuver. The only way the team is hurting is if Rivet, Markov and Souray all decide to walk or test themselves on the market and find themselves priced highly. And the only way this happens is if Montreal has a good run in the playoffs.

Say that happens: Montreal is still able to keep likely Markov and Rivet, even if they have to buy them for a high price. Then the team has $3m free to spend on a good, mobile defenseman, which is roughly what the Spaceks, Zhitniks, et al. make on the open market. It's doable. Further, the team has enough assets to make a deal for a defenseman if that route is deemed best.

And that's really the point: the team is not in any corner financially with the cap. I believe any player Montreal deems necessary for future success will be back with the team.

So it's a good position and there's nothing to worry about. Hurrah!


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Old
12-13-2006, 11:12 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Why? Neither of them are putting up great numbers. Plekanec, while solid, is likely to end up with less than 40 points this season. I don't see how he would get such a raise. I see $800k, but not $1m. It's peanuts, but it makes a difference here.

Perezhogin, same boat.

Consider the fact that Higgins had a tremendous finish to last season, and yet made very little extra.

Consider that players in this age-bracket are in no real position of power, and are usually kept to less than $1m salaries until they approach UFA-age, or until they explode offensively.

These are ideal players to have because they're fundamentally sound, they're versatile, and they're cheap for the next few years. They're not in line for any major pay-rise until they've solidified a role for themselves, and neither Perez nor Plekanec have really asserted themselves yet into a defined role.

So while we're maybe talking about $400k between these two players, I think it's important to make the distinction that these players will make very little until they've established themselves.

Similarly, Kostitsyn is in line for a new contract next season. He's currently making what, $850k? On a two-way deal, too. So expect that number to go down to around $500-600k, and all of a sudden he's a more attractive every-day player for Montreal because he's all the more affordable. It's peanuts, but it counts.


Any way you cut it, given Montreal's depth, the team is in a position of power. There is cap-room to maneuver. The only way the team is hurting is if Rivet, Markov and Souray all decide to walk or test themselves on the market and find themselves priced highly. And the only way this happens is if Montreal has a good run in the playoffs.

Say that happens: Montreal is still able to keep likely Markov and Rivet, even if they have to buy them for a high price. Then the team has $3m free to spend on a good, mobile defenseman, which is roughly what the Spaceks, Zhitniks, et al. make on the open market. It's doable. Further, the team has enough assets to make a deal for a defenseman if that route is deemed best.

And that's really the point: the team is not in any corner financially with the cap. I believe any player Montreal deems necessary for future success will be back with the team.

So it's a good position and there's nothing to worry about. Hurrah!


I agree but I don't think that this team is gonna get any better in 2-3 years if we keep the same players as we do this year... Cuz like I said, Kostitsyn must play on the team by the end of the year, and Grabovski should get the opportunity to make the club next season, before he becomes an overager. Not to mention Chipchura is doing quite nicely in the NHL, Lapierre should get a regular spot next season, Ferland should challenge for the 13th, Milroy as well.

I think that although we might not run into the salary cap, we definitely will have to bring up a few rookies next season. For instance;

I see Chipchura getting at least 20 games next season
Grabovski and Kost should be near regulars (I'd say at least 50 games for one of the 2, maybe both)
Lapierre should be a regular 4th liner
Ferland should be 13th (better than Murray)

We definitely have a lot of doors opening next off-season and I'm intrigued to see how it'll play out.

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12-14-2006, 12:15 AM
  #42
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Plekanec is useful two-way center - and probably our best option at this time as 2nd center - but I doubt he'd be able to keep the same rhythm in the long run. But, ideally, Pleks would see a fair share of icetime on the fourth line, playing with better forwards.

Sorry to bring you all back to the old demons, but haven't found big-gritty-goal scoaring center we've been looking fo years. If that kind of guy could come our way in return for Souray (and ++) before the deadline, that would be just fine.

At this point, I think they'll let Souray walk, they'll keep Markov (4.5 M) and Rivet (3M) and if Huet keeps up the good play, Aebischer will leave too and be replaced next season by Halak.

Bonk and Johnson should be kept at 1,5M each, no more.

If Ryder asks for 3M (I'm making this judgement just days, maybe, before he gets on an absolute tear) you let him walk, just like Buffalo let Dumont leave. That would open a spot on the top two lines for either Latendresse, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn or Grabovsky. If, by then, Kostitsyn doesn't show what he's hot in the gut, his Montreal days will be over.

After resigning our guys, we'll be left a few bucks to shop. Same UFA targets as last year: a talented center (Forsberg, Kariya, Gomez...) and a offensive-minded D to replace Souray (like Timonen, Salo or Preissing)


Last edited by Mag1328: 12-14-2006 at 12:31 AM.
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12-14-2006, 01:33 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Mag1328 View Post
Plekanec is useful two-way center - and probably our best option at this time as 2nd center - but I doubt he'd be able to keep the same rhythm in the long run. But, ideally, Pleks would see a fair share of icetime on the fourth line, playing with better forwards.

Sorry to bring you all back to the old demons, but haven't found big-gritty-goal scoaring center we've been looking fo years. If that kind of guy could come our way in return for Souray (and ++) before the deadline, that would be just fine.

At this point, I think they'll let Souray walk, they'll keep Markov (4.5 M) and Rivet (3M) and if Huet keeps up the good play, Aebischer will leave too and be replaced next season by Halak.

Bonk and Johnson should be kept at 1,5M each, no more.

If Ryder asks for 3M (I'm making this judgement just days, maybe, before he gets on an absolute tear) you let him walk, just like Buffalo let Dumont leave. That would open a spot on the top two lines for either Latendresse, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn or Grabovsky. If, by then, Kostitsyn doesn't show what he's hot in the gut, his Montreal days will be over.

After resigning our guys, we'll be left a few bucks to shop. Same UFA targets as last year: a talented center (Forsberg, Kariya, Gomez...) and a offensive-minded D to replace Souray (like Timonen, Salo or Preissing)
We havent found in years simply because most offensive centers are playmakers, setup guys... maybe we should try to find big/gritty/goal scoring wingers instead...

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12-14-2006, 11:55 AM
  #44
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I enjoyed reading the salary analyses, especially that by Mike8. IMO the cap problem will be relieved by the departure of Souray as a free agent. I believe he'll accept an outside offer either because it's substantially higher than any Gainey can make or because it's from a West Coast team. I don't think the Habs should trade him before the deadline because he should play an important role in cementing the Habs' playoff position and in enhancing their playoff chances. Since he's an impending UFA, I don't think another GM would offer Gainey an equally valuable player in return. The Habs already have enough prospects.

The Habs can't afford to lose both Souray and Markov. I think it would be wiser to focus on signing Markov for a period of years.

Although Rivet has been an important cog for years, he's reached a point where his age and salary have to be considered in any decision to re-sign him.

With Souray gone, I believe there will be enough cap room to retain at least one of Bonk and Johnson.

If Andrei Kostitsyn distinguishes himself at Hamilton in the next month or so, I'd consider trading Ryder before the deadline. (I believe Ryder could become a UFA at the end of the season, and it wouldn't be sensible to lose him outright.) Even without Ryder, there should be six remaining forwards capable of playing on the first two lines: Higgins, Koivu, Latendresse, Kovalev, Samsonov, and either Plekanec or Kostitsyn.

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12-14-2006, 12:12 PM
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Imo, we'll definitely find a way to lose Samsonov or Kovalev...if not, we'll lose Ryder (no question about it). Ryder will probably be asking for 2.5-3m+ if he puts up 25-30 goals, which we could afford if we resign the more important players; Higgins, will at least get 2m, Plekanec for 1m, Perez for 1m, Komisarek should be in for near 2m, Markov will be 4m+, and at least one of Souray or Rivet will be re-signed and could run up 4m+ (Souray).

Even if it's only for a 4th-5th round pick and a little bit of salary dump, Gainey will try to get one of the russians on their way out, instead of Ryder (imo).
You could be right about the two Russians, but either would command a lot more in return. Besides, I don't think Gainey would give up on them so quickly. A plausible alternative might be to shop Ryder, especially if Kostitsyn looks ready to step in. (Of course, Ryder might not reach 25-30 goals this season and therefore might not rate $2.5-3M+.) I'm not confident Gainey will be able to keep Souray. Rivet will be on the bubble if it comes down to finding enough money for Markov. Losing Rivet might be tolerable if Niinamaa accepts an extension without a raise.

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12-14-2006, 12:19 PM
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Plekanec Proving His Worth ?;

Yes . He proved that he's a good 3-4 th liner .
He also proved that he's not a 2 th liner .

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12-14-2006, 12:21 PM
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You could be right about the two Russians, but either would command a lot more in return. Besides, I don't think Gainey would give up on them so quickly. A plausible alternative might be to shop Ryder, especially if Kostitsyn looks ready to step in. (Of course, Ryder might not reach 25-30 goals this season and therefore might not rate $2.5-3M+.) I'm not confident Gainey will be able to keep Souray. Rivet will be on the bubble if it comes down to finding enough money for Markov. Losing Rivet might be tolerable if Niinamaa accepts an extension without a raise.
I would agree...I think with Latendresse showing that he can keep up with Ryder, even in his rookie season makes Ryder expandable. Latendresse is a big body who creates space for himself. He's got the willingness to win that I don't think Ryder has and throws big body checks. I love Ryder, but if he isn't scoring 30+ goals, and Latendresse is...he becomes expandable. It all becomes a question of the roster instead of salary imo... Kost has to be on the team before the end of the season, so we're gonna have to let go of someone.

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12-14-2006, 12:23 PM
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I enjoyed reading the salary analyses, especially that by Mike8. IMO the cap problem will be relieved by the departure of Souray as a free agent. I believe he'll accept an outside offer either because it's substantially higher than any Gainey can make or because it's from a West Coast team. I don't think the Habs should trade him before the deadline because he should play an important role in cementing the Habs' playoff position and in enhancing their playoff chances. Since he's an impending UFA, I don't think another GM would offer Gainey an equally valuable player in return. The Habs already have enough prospects.

The Habs can't afford to lose both Souray and Markov. I think it would be wiser to focus on signing Markov for a period of years.

Although Rivet has been an important cog for years, he's reached a point where his age and salary have to be considered in any decision to re-sign him.

With Souray gone, I believe there will be enough cap room to retain at least one of Bonk and Johnson.

If Andrei Kostitsyn distinguishes himself at Hamilton in the next month or so, I'd consider trading Ryder before the deadline. (I believe Ryder could become a UFA at the end of the season, and it wouldn't be sensible to lose him outright.) Even without Ryder, there should be six remaining forwards capable of playing on the first two lines: Higgins, Koivu, Latendresse, Kovalev, Samsonov, and either Plekanec or Kostitsyn.
You're also forgetting Perezhogin and possibly Grabovski (by the end of the season). We have a good amount of depth at the top 6, even without Ryder.

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12-14-2006, 12:42 PM
  #49
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D-It's possible that we might not re sign Rivet and Sourray. Emelin will be in the picture next year and I expect Obyrne to fight for a spot too. With Obyrne-Coté playing the same style as Rivet he might be the most obsolete of the gang. With Emelin coming in(hopefully) signing Markov will be very important. Imo Komo is already the best stay at home D we have atm.

Markov-Komo
Emelin-Dandy
Streit-Bouillon
Obyrne-Coté

Upfront: Kost will be an hab, they have very little choice to promote him, this will help grabs make the team as well. Johnson resigned and Chipchura taking bonk's place is probably the plans I would go for(in the long term) but pleckanec might be the solution for next year. Downey-Murray out, no doubt. Lapierre in.

Then theres many questions:

What do you do with Ryder if Lats keep improving.
What do you do with Kovalev
What do you do with Samsonov

Personnaly my lines would look like this:

Higgins-Koivu-Lats
Kost-Grabs-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Johnson-Ryder
Begin-Laps-Pleckanec

When chipchura is ready, I think Pleckanec will be the one in trouble. We are in a situation where we have a good bunch of 21-22 years old prospects that are knocking on the door and we will have little choice to put them on the team to see what we really have. Creating a log jam in our pipeline can be bad for our assets. Maxwell, Fischer etc. will all need place when they are coming closer.

So if you look at it this way, Gainey is probably looking for a big 2-way D for next year. One that he could pay with the collective salary of Rivet and Sourray.(Brad Stuart?) A game breaking D, both ways. Trade or UFA. I would probably tryout grabs this year, so we can sign a center if hes really not ready.


Last edited by SOLR: 12-14-2006 at 12:52 PM.
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12-14-2006, 12:54 PM
  #50
Shabutie
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D-It's possible that we might not re sign Rivet and Sourray. Emelin will be in the picture next year and I expect Obyrne to fight for a spot too. With Obyrne-Coté playing the same style as Rivet he might be the most obsolete of the gang. With Emelin coming in(hopefully) signing Markov will be very important. Imo Komo is already the best stay at home D we have atm.

Markov-Komo
Emelin-Dandy
Streit-Bouillon
Obyrne-Coté

Upfront: Kost will be an hab, they have very little choice to promote him, this will help grabs make the team as well. Johnson resigned and Chipchura taking bonk's place is probably the plans I would go for(in the long term) but pleckanec might be the solution for next year. Downey-Murray out, no doubt. Lapierre in.

Then theres many questions:

What do you do with Ryder if Lats keep improving.
What do you do with Kovalev
What do you do with Samsonov

Personnaly my lines would look like this:

Higgins-Koivu-Lats
Kost-Grabs-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Johnson-Ryder
Begin-Laps-Pleckanec


When chipchura is ready, I think Pleckanec will be the one in trouble. We are in a situation where we have a good bunch of 21-22 years old prospects that are knocking on the door and we will have little choice to put them on the team to see what we really have. Creating a log jam in our pipeline can be bad for our assets. Maxwell, Fischer etc. will all need place when they are coming closer.

So if you look at it this way, Gainey is probably looking for a big 2-way D for next year. One that he could pay with the collective salary of Rivet and Sourray.(Brad Stuart?) A game breaking D, both ways. Trade or UFA. I would probably tryout grabs this year, so we can sign a center if hes really not ready.
I'd go with;

Higgins - Koivu - Lats
Kost - Grabs - Kovalev
Perezhogin - Plekanec - Johnson
Begin - Lapierre - Ferland

Perfect team imo (on paper of course).

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