HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

What's our real problem?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-30-2013, 08:51 AM
  #26
Tarus
Fire Mact
 
Tarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
I have 0 faith in MacT to get this right. He is horrible at assessing talent.

I'll never ever forget when he said reasoner was as good as Sakic
Ah yes, Sakic without the speed.

Don't forget about his Horcoff for the Olympic team stuff in 2010, a year which Horcoff scored 36 points in 77 games.

Tarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 08:54 AM
  #27
Dr_oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shogun99 View Post
Team is poorly structured, to many of the same type of player, no checking line, no team toughness. One of Eberle or Yakupov, Gagner and Hemsky need to be replaced with grittier players. Need a reliable goalie. A legitimate 30 min/night top pairing D, 1-2 punishing defenceman. 2 more punishing bottom six wingers.
This is bang on! They need to start making some personnel choices. They did the right thing by drafting the BPA but it's time to start cashing in those chips to make a proper team. Right now this is not a team, it's a collection of a few very talented players of the same ilk, that alone does not make a team.

Sadly, one of those chips is not fully valued yet. Yak needs to start performing before his full value could be considered when trying to decide who stays and who goes.

Dr_oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 09:00 AM
  #28
Dorian2
The bag don't lie.
 
Dorian2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,385
vCash: 50
I've seen it mentioned at # 4 o5 a bit in this thread, but I think the #1 issue is the goaltending. We had to play a friggin 3rd stringer yesterday against the leafs, all because our #1 and #2 goalies can't stop an over blown beach ball.

I'm not sure why the goalies are getting a free ride around here still. They suck balls.
Now a team like Toronto has goaltending.

I think our defense would look a lot better with actual NHL caliber goaltending, not a bunch of backups that we have right now....including DD.

Dorian2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 09:00 AM
  #29
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,682
vCash: 500
Tenacity
Loyalty
Blind devotion
Faith
Addiction


We all fall down.


Wrong answer?

Replacement is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 09:02 AM
  #30
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 885
top line vs top line is not working for us..

Yak-Gagner-Ebs were -11 combined last night...

We are getting owned by the top lines of opponents... Crosby was in on every goal scored against us , Ovy had a few, Kessel\JVR have feasted against us, LA's top line scored against us.. so on and so forth..

We need to get Gordon up on "top line" and give Gagner\Nuge the sheltered minutes.

Perron is also a good guy to put against top lines..

Petro Points is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 09:05 AM
  #31
Conkanen*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 490
vCash: 500
We have an AHL goalie and a bunch of #4/5 d-men and we constantly harp on the forwards.

Conkanen* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 09:12 AM
  #32
DisgruntledGoat
Registered User
 
DisgruntledGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,957
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
top line vs top line is not working for us..

Yak-Gagner-Ebs were -11 combined last night...

We are getting owned by the top lines of opponents... Crosby was in on every goal scored against us , Ovy had a few, Kessel\JVR have feasted against us, LA's top line scored against us.. so on and so forth..

We need to get Gordon up on "top line" and give Gagner\Nuge the sheltered minutes.

Perron is also a good guy to put against top lines..
Not disagreeing with you, but its funny that Perron is one of our better defensive players. He was an offensive QMJHL product... Not the typical pedigree for a Selke candidate.

But wait... He came up through the St Louis system... And DEVELOPED his game and was forced to work on his weaknesses! By a franchise that provided him with guidance, quality coaching, expectations, and slotted him into a team identity.

What a shocking concept. Perron, Ference and Gordon all came out of organizations that dont make excuses and are commited to success. Id love to know what they think of this gong show.

DisgruntledGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 09:24 AM
  #33
Dr_oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
I've seen it mentioned at # 4 o5 a bit in this thread, but I think the #1 issue is the goaltending. We had to play a friggin 3rd stringer yesterday against the leafs, all because our #1 and #2 goalies can't stop an over blown beach ball.

I'm not sure why the goalies are getting a free ride around here still. They suck balls.
Now a team like Toronto has goaltending.

I think our defense would look a lot better with actual NHL caliber goaltending, not a bunch of backups that we have right now....including DD.
Goaltending has definately cost us some games early on but it's not the problem lately. We got beat 4-0 last night. Tough to blame goaltending on that one, we didn't score. We have a bad PP, bad PK, can't score, not fortitude, on and on and on.

Don't get me wrong, we don't have great goaltending but only a few teams do. Blaming goaltending lets everyone else off the hook and they don't deserve to be let off the hook.

Dr_oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 09:52 AM
  #34
Oil Dude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
I've seen it mentioned at # 4 o5 a bit in this thread, but I think the #1 issue is the goaltending. We had to play a friggin 3rd stringer yesterday against the leafs, all because our #1 and #2 goalies can't stop an over blown beach ball.

I'm not sure why the goalies are getting a free ride around here still. They suck balls.
Now a team like Toronto has goaltending.

I think our defense would look a lot better with actual NHL caliber goaltending, not a bunch of backups that we have right now....including DD.
Agreed. Although scoring 0 goals a game is a sure fire way to lose as well.

How embarassing is it that we have envy towards the Leafs? One should look up how many 1 round draft picks are in their lineup.

Oil Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 09:54 AM
  #35
dustrock
Too Legit To Quit
 
dustrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conkanen View Post
We have an AHL goalie and a bunch of #4/5 d-men and we constantly harp on the forwards.
This. But, I'm beginning to wonder about the hockey IQ of half our team.

Wide-open passes into skates, blown defensive coverage. I mean, these are skills you learn along the way.

Eakins shouldn't be suddenly revealing How To Play Hockey to players who have been playing full-time hockey for most of their lives.

I'm also wondering how many players are dogging it (a) because nothing changes here, but also now (b) to hopefully be traded out of town. I'm not even sure I'd blame them if they had that attitude.

dustrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 09:55 AM
  #36
Dorian2
The bag don't lie.
 
Dorian2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,385
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_oil View Post
Goaltending has definately cost us some games early on but it's not the problem lately. We got beat 4-0 last night. Tough to blame goaltending on that one, we didn't score. We have a bad PP, bad PK, can't score, not fortitude, on and on and on.

Don't get me wrong, we don't have great goaltending but only a few teams do. Blaming goaltending lets everyone else off the hook and they don't deserve to be let off the hook.
Sorry...can't agree. We do have some major deficiencies in many places, but to me, the #1 issue is indeed the goaltending. When a good goalie stops a puck from going in the net, even though it is deemed a sure goal (Kessel for example), it changes the momentum of the team in front of him. The lack of our goaltending being able to make any big saves has, and is continuing, to inhibit this change of momentum.

I hear all this other stuff in here and on the radio/tv, like top line vs top line, PK, back checking etc. I know it's an issue, but the tending seems to get a pass for some reason.

Are we getting so used to ****** goaltending that no one seems to think it's the #1 issue?

Dorian2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 10:14 AM
  #37
Oilfan2
Oil the way..
 
Oilfan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,276
vCash: 1507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Sorry...can't agree. We do have some major deficiencies in many places, but to me, the #1 issue is indeed the goaltending. When a good goalie stops a puck from going in the net, even though it is deemed a sure goal (Kessel for example), it changes the momentum of the team in front of him. The lack of our goaltending being able to make any big saves has, and is continuing, to inhibit this change of momentum.

I hear all this other stuff in here and on the radio/tv, like top line vs top line, PK, back checking etc. I know it's an issue, but the tending seems to get a pass for some reason.

Are we getting so used to ****** goaltending that no one seems to think it's the #1 issue?
Actually, there are many folks saying goaltending is an issue. I think, where there are some differences is, whether it's a good goalie or a great one. For instance, if the Oil had a good goalie they probably would have another 6 points by now. However, if we had a great goalie, we'd have 8 -10 more..and yes, a great goalie may have been able to make a great save on Kessel last night.

A good goalie keeps us in games but, imo, masks many of the things that are wrong with this team. As has been mentioned by many, we have too many of the same players up front so we need toughness/grit in the top 6. We need a top 1/2 defenceman and, yes, a good goalie.

I've been saying for the last 2 years that we have the wrong mix. I understand why we kept our first overalls and picked the BPA. However, now we should be re-evaluating and making some changes to fill the holes. I suspect we're going to need to trade at least 2 of the following to get that mix...Eberle, Yakupov, Hall, RNH, Gagner as well as one of Hemsky J Schultz and Petry. I would keep Hall, RNH and Perron(one of the few with grit who isn't afraid to go to the hard areas) but those are my choices. With giving up those 2-3 players we should be able to fill 3 of the holes...good goalie, top 2 D and a good top 6 forward with strength/grit/truculence..

Oilfan2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 10:18 AM
  #38
Starbuds
You like muscles?
 
Starbuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,263
vCash: 500
It's rotten from top to bottom. From the billionaire owner who made his fortune in pharmaceuticals (people are surprised that he turned out slimy in the arena deal?), through management and players, down to the wealthy Albertan fans who dish out however much money it takes to see the team lose in person.

Starbuds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:17 PM
  #39
Master Lok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
I have 0 faith in MacT to get this right. He is horrible at assessing talent.

I'll never ever forget when he said reasoner was as good as Sakic
Apparently you'll never forget that he said it tongue-in-cheek....

Master Lok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:22 PM
  #40
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,727
vCash: 50
Short answer... they suck.

Slightly longer and more rational answer... not enough grit and physicality in their lineup... not high enough of a compete and effort level on the roster to play a solid 60 minutes game after game.

Defensive squad and goaltending is inferior. On top of that the team seems to have regressed on their special teams under Eakins. Too early to blame him for everything BUT not too early to say he certainly doesn't seem to be delivering anything that looks very positive either when this team is actually looking WORSE than it did the last several years when we thought it was as bad as it could get in the recent "basement years". He's making Wreck It Ralph look like a decent coach.


Short answer again... they suck.

nexttothemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:22 PM
  #41
Beerfish
Registered User
 
Beerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,663
vCash: 500
We also have had the misfortune of picking 1 overall in some years with the worst overall picks over a number of years. Out of three years in a row you'd think we could have flubbed into one true franchise type player.

Beerfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:25 PM
  #42
Master Lok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,616
vCash: 500
Real Problem?

1) I didn't believe our problem last year was solely the Oilers bottom six forwards. It became an argument the idiotic media bandwagon jumped on. But it makes no logical sense that forwards who were playing 6-10 minutes a game was causing the Oilers to lose more than the top six players playing 10-20 minutes a game was effecting the game.

Its not the bottom six. Its the top nine. Always has been. The Oilers don't have enough players who can play against oppositions top lines. Can Taylor Hall score points? Yes of course. Can Jordan Eberle score points? Of course. Can the outscore the opposition's best players? Can they play against Thornton-Marleau or Sedin-Sedin or Ovechkin-Backstrom and outscore them?

No they can't.

Should we trade them then?

Of course not. In time, I have faith that they will develop and will become strong two way players: RNH and Hall in particular. But that day is not today.

2) The same thing for the Oilers defense. The Oilers are overplaying Justin Schultz, Jeff Petry, and to a lesser extent - Anton Belov. These guys are still pretty new to the quality at the NHL level. MacT had the right idea in picking up Ference as a solid veteran defender. The Oilers need to protect Justin Schultz give him less EV minutes, against weaker opposition.

Master Lok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:28 PM
  #43
Master Lok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,616
vCash: 500
Its not physicality people. Crap - where do you guys come up with this stuff?

How does having Chris Neil, or Steve MacIntyre or bleeding George Laraques in his prime, do anything against Phil Kessel and his four points last night, or Alex Ovechkin scoring?

The Oilers already added Luke Gadzic and it hasn't changed anything.
The Oilers added Mike Brown last year, and it didn't change anything.

Master Lok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:33 PM
  #44
CornKicker
Locked Out
 
CornKicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,313
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by shogun99 View Post
Go hard for Weber, offer anything that isn't Hall or RNH. Him alone playing 30 minutes/night would make us a borderline playoff team.
im jumping on this boat as well. mortgage a bit of the long term future for probably the best all around dman in teh game and a perfect mentor for Nurse.

CornKicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:36 PM
  #45
DarkSaturn
Registered User
 
DarkSaturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
im jumping on this boat as well. mortgage a bit of the long term future for probably the best all around dman in teh game and a perfect mentor for Nurse.
With this team... you guys are crazy.

Weber would injure 1/3 of the roster every game with his slap shot.

DarkSaturn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:38 PM
  #46
dyzfunctioned
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
We also have had the misfortune of picking 1 overall in some years with the worst overall picks over a number of years. Out of three years in a row you'd think we could have flubbed into one true franchise type player.
I see people say this all the time and can't say I get it.

Hall: 68 G 85 A 153 P in 180 GP (0.85 points per game) to date 49 G 46 A 95 P in 126 GP in first two years (0.75 points per game)
RNH: 26 G 60 A 86 P in 114 GP (0.75 points per game)

Average to date: 147 GP, 0.8 points per game

Ignored Yak, because while it's too early to be writing any of these guys off, it's definitely too early to be tossing out judgement on Yak.

Tavares first two seasons: 53 G 68 A 123 P in 161 GP (0.76 points per game)
Kane first two seasons: 46G 96 A 142 P in 162 GP (0.87 points per game)
Stamkos first two seasons: 74 G 67 A 141 P in 161 GP (0.87 points per game)

Average GP: 161 GP, 0.83 points per game

In terms of points, they've been on par or better than Tavares, and not a ton behind Kane/Stamkos.

If you want to say our players have been less healthy, sure...

I question how they play at times, but Hall was 9th in NHL scoring last year, in his third season. 2nd leading scorer in the West.

dyzfunctioned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:41 PM
  #47
dyzfunctioned
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
im jumping on this boat as well. mortgage a bit of the long term future for probably the best all around dman in teh game and a perfect mentor for Nurse.
a) Weber is going nowhere. That was sealed when Nashville signed the offer sheet and paid 1/3 of his contract in signing bonuses.

b) Not the best all around dman. Since Suter left he hasn't looked nearly as good and was a minus player for the first time since his sophomore year while Suter went on to be a Norris nominee...

dyzfunctioned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:41 PM
  #48
CornKicker
Locked Out
 
CornKicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,313
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSaturn View Post
With this team... you guys are crazy.

Weber would injure 1/3 of the roster every game with his slap shot.
lol come on man, that would imply we have players actually going to the front of the net.

CornKicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:44 PM
  #49
Tony Clifton Leaf
A Mouthful
 
Tony Clifton Leaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,222
vCash: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Dude View Post
Agreed. Although scoring 0 goals a game is a sure fire way to lose as well.

How embarassing is it that we have envy towards the Leafs? One should look up how many 1 round draft picks are in their lineup.
JVR (2), Kessel (5), Rielly (5), Kadri (7), Lupul (7), Phaneuf (9), Bernier (11), Gardiner (17), and Ashton (29)

9.

Tony Clifton Leaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2013, 12:45 PM
  #50
BleedingOil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 793
vCash: 500
how about the boys partyin' it up at the rack last night. what a joke

BleedingOil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.