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Old
10-29-2013, 07:23 PM
  #76
maplepred
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Stalberg put up a ton of es points in a very limited time on offense therefor when he comes here and gets a ton of minutes and pp time he's going to rack up a bunch of points.

See how that doesn't work.

Look where stalberg was drafted. Look at the hype of voracek compared to stalberg. Voracek is sooooo much more offensively talented than stalberg would ever hope to be.


And you say voracek had only one good season?? How many has josi had??

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10-29-2013, 07:25 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
...wow, I completely missed that.

* * *


Current point paces of Gaborik and the "nobodys" Gaborik is playing with:
Gaborik: 5-5-10 in 10gp, 1.00 ppg.
Wisniewski: 1-8-9 in 11gp, 0.82 ppg.
Dubinsky: 3-5-8 in 11gp, 0.73 ppg.
Johansen, Anisimov: 3-4-7/4-3-7 in 11gp, 0.64 ppg.
Foligno: 3-2-5 in 8gp, 0.63 ppg.

Thank you for your trolling attempt, as it's quite flattering... but you fail.



Hon, when I say "another Erat", that's meant as praise. Erat was a very special player. But he was not a star.

You're putting way too much weight on his prior season, IMO.

Those aren't exactly stars you pointed out. He went from playing with Richards, Nash, stepan, etc to 'nobodies' in Columbus.

He has made guys around him way better, just like I think a guy like voracek could do with our boys up front.

Again, josi has not proven any more than voracek, and he need offense way more than defense. I feel it's worth the gamble. But have huge upside and neither looks like a bust

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10-29-2013, 07:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Look where stalberg was drafted. Look at the hype of voracek compared to stalberg. Voracek is sooooo much more offensively talented than stalberg would ever hope to be.


And you say voracek had only one good season?? How many has josi had??
Voracek had one good half-season actually. His shooting % was WAY over his average during the lockout-shortened season. No way he sustains that over a full year much less a career. You can shout 'upside' all you want but that is all it is right now. Potential. And this team has almost nothing BUT potential.

He seems like a decent winger who is going to get you around 50 pts. a year. This team has that forward role filled and then some. There is no reason to trade for this guy. None. He is not the answer to solve the scoring woes here. And right now with 4 pts. through 10 games he is trending much closer to his career average than what he put up over 48 games last season.

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10-29-2013, 08:09 PM
  #79
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It's always funny when somebody gets on their fanboy/fangirl horse and rides it to it's death trying to justify whatever the trade idea of the week happens to be for them.

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10-29-2013, 08:12 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Look where stalberg was drafted. Look at the hype of voracek compared to stalberg. Voracek is sooooo much more offensively talented than stalberg would ever hope to be.


And you say voracek had only one good season?? How many has josi had??

Where was Datysuk and Zetterberg drafted? Draft pick has very little correlation to how good a player will be.

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10-29-2013, 08:24 PM
  #81
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Another Erat type of player would be huge to this team. We're really missing him IMO (the real Erat, not the 2013 version of him).

Philly has no interest in trading him though, I'd have to imagine.

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10-29-2013, 11:56 PM
  #82
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I think voracek is more like a 70 point player, but time will tell. We all have players we think will develop, sometimes we are wrong and sometimes we are not.
I just think voracek is going to really be something, he has all the tools and I love his style.

Josi has not proven any more than voracek and vice versa.

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10-30-2013, 01:07 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I think voracek is more like a 70 point player, but time will tell. We all have players we think will develop, sometimes we are wrong and sometimes we are not.
I just think voracek is going to really be something, he has all the tools and I love his style.

Josi has not proven any more than voracek and vice versa.
maple, i'm on the trade for voracek train too but he's not gonna be 70pt guy. 65 at most. with that said, that'd be good for us. But at the same time, I wouldn't go as far as to say he's going to be better than Stalberg would ever hope to be. What we have seen from Stalberg isn't exactly anywhere close to his type or potential of play.

Stalberg's best year he scored 22g and same with Voracek. Of course, that's an 82 game season compared to a 48 but I bet Voracek would have finished around 32 goals. He was on a tear to start the season. Also, Jake only has 4pts because Philly has been god awful so far. When their line is producing, he's pretty good.

All this being said, I'd still like to see Voracek on a line with Wilson, Smith, or Stalberg.

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10-30-2013, 10:14 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Those aren't exactly stars you pointed out. He went from playing with Richards, Nash, stepan, etc to 'nobodies' in Columbus.
Glass houses, hon. By this standard measure of recognition, Josi is also playing with "nobodies".

Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
He has made guys around him way better, just like I think a guy like voracek could do with our boys up front.

Again, josi has not proven any more than voracek, and he need offense way more than defense. I feel it's worth the gamble. But have huge upside and neither looks like a bust
I still think you're overrating him. Voracek would be a very nice addition to the offense, true - and he probably would make several players better. But you're trying to sell him as some sort of game-breaking miracle worker who'll save the Preds from doom, and that's just not fair to him. He'd contribute and contribute well - like Erat did - but he's not going to be your Lord And Savior. And that means that the price that Philly would ask for him is Not A Good Idea.

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10-30-2013, 11:47 AM
  #85
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I just think we need a young gun to build offense around. I definitely see your guys points. I guess time will tell.

But remember josi has weber to make him look better, and with Klein, jones, ekholm, weber, josi. That's unreal. And if Ellis ever pans out.

One has to go for offensive help eventually. I just really like voracek and think he would offer a lot to our offense.

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10-30-2013, 12:11 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
I just think we need a young gun to build offense around. I definitely see your guys points. I guess time will tell.

But remember josi has weber to make him look better, and with Klein, jones, ekholm, weber, josi. That's unreal. And if Ellis ever pans out.

One has to go for offensive help eventually. I just really like voracek and think he would offer a lot to our offense.
Smith? Forsberg? Wilson? Hornqvist? Potentially Beck? Sissons? Watson? Budish?

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10-30-2013, 01:01 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Smith? Forsberg? Wilson? Hornqvist? Potentially Beck? Sissons? Watson? Budish?
true, very true.

but i think maple means a guy from outside this team. just looking in other places, rather than having to wait for the latter part of that list to develop. And i dont really think Watson will be a big scoring threat.

Scorers in my opinion are going to be guys like leipsic, sissons, forsberg, aberg, and possibly cehlin.

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10-30-2013, 01:27 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It's always funny when somebody gets on their fanboy/fangirl horse and rides it to it's death trying to justify whatever the trade idea of the week happens to be for them.
thank diety someone else see this.

Voracek could help the team, but he is that 2nd liner that we already have plenty of. Stalberg, Wilson, Forsberg, Hornquist, Smith and bourque are more than capable wings for a top nine. Would be nice if Wilson or Forsberg, or even Smith could take the step into a bonafide top 3 player on a team and avg .75-1 ppg. We lack, as we always have that type of player, whether it be a C or a W.

now that isn't to say Voracek is a bad player. He is a good player. To get him, he needs to replace bourque on the wing. So you package bourque plus Ellis and a pick not in the first round. That trade would yes, make us better. Anything more than that off the current roster makes us worse, and I don't think the bourque vs voracheks production is worth more than that. GB should come back to his median play. He should put up 35-40 points over the season. Is the extra 20 worth what we would have to give up? My opinion is no.

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10-30-2013, 01:59 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by thecloser View Post
true, very true.

but i think maple means a guy from outside this team. just looking in other places, rather than having to wait for the latter part of that list to develop. And i dont really think Watson will be a big scoring threat.

Scorers in my opinion are going to be guys like leipsic, sissons, forsberg, aberg, and possibly cehlin.
That's exactly it!

Hornqvist, Watson, budish, etc will not put offense up like we need.

Calling voracek a second liner is hilarious. He plays first line on team with way better forwards than us

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10-30-2013, 02:13 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
That's exactly it!

Hornqvist, Watson, budish, etc will not put offense up like we need.

Calling voracek a second liner is hilarious. He plays first line on team with way better forwards than us
Then why isn't he performing?

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10-30-2013, 03:05 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
That's exactly it!

Hornqvist, Watson, budish, etc will not put offense up like we need.

Calling voracek a second liner is hilarious. He plays first line on team with way better forwards than us
Hornqvist 2009 51 pts, 2010 48 pts, 2011 43 pts.
Voracek 2009 50 pts, 2010 46 pts, 2011 49 pts.

Yes Voracek had a good 48 games with an insane shooting percentage last season. But if you think Hornqvist will not put up the offense we need, your boy Voracek is not the answer either.

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10-30-2013, 03:21 PM
  #92
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Hornqvist 2009 51 pts, 2010 48 pts, 2011 43 pts.
Voracek 2009 50 pts, 2010 46 pts, 2011 49 pts.

Yes Voracek had a good 48 games with an insane shooting percentage last season. But if you think Hornqvist will not put up the offense we need, your boy Voracek is not the answer either.
on the same coin a line with hornqvist and voracek would be nice. Voracek is a true sniper and with hornqvist crashing the net, his opportunities for garbage/rebound goals would be more often than not.

ellis,bourque,and a 3rd could fetch voracek. worth it, in my opinion yes. but i'm still of the opinion voracek won't bring more than 65 pts in any given season.


Last edited by thecloser: 11-04-2013 at 12:04 PM.
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10-30-2013, 04:01 PM
  #93
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you know who else was a true sniper (by shooting percentage anyway)? SK I think the video game thinking of putting a sniper with a playmaker and power forward is flawed. Hornquist does more than just crash the net and pick up rebounds, which is all many thinks he does around here

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10-30-2013, 04:12 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
That's exactly it!

Hornqvist, Watson, budish, etc will not put offense up like we need.

Calling voracek a second liner is hilarious. He plays first line on team with way better forwards than us
Hornqvist, the player you claim "will not put offense up like we need" has 8 more goals in 89 fewer games played than Voracek.

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10-30-2013, 05:52 PM
  #95
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Hornqvist is 3.5 years older than voracek lets not forget. So to compare him to a guy that was only 21 when hornqvist was 24.5 is not very fair. That's like comparing filip forsberg to John Tavares.

Someone up above (triggrman), asked why isn't voracek performing, well that's a fair question, but I think the entire Philly team isn't performing. Does that mean giroux stinks as well?
I just think with Philly struggling right now it's prime for a team like us to swoop in an land a guy like voracek.

If anyone thinks voracek would not be our leading scorer by seasons end with this current group of forwards, then you are wrong. Plain and simple. Last season our leading scorer was defenseman Shea weber. ''Defense''man.

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10-30-2013, 06:15 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Hornqvist is 3.5 years older than voracek lets not forget. So to compare him to a guy that was only 21 when hornqvist was 24.5 is not very fair. That's like comparing filip forsberg to John Tavares.

Someone up above (triggrman), asked why isn't voracek performing, well that's a fair question, but I think the entire Philly team isn't performing. Does that mean giroux stinks as well?
I just think with Philly struggling right now it's prime for a team like us to swoop in an land a guy like voracek.

If anyone thinks voracek would not be our leading scorer by seasons end with this current group of forwards, then you are wrong. Plain and simple. Last season our leading scorer was defenseman Shea weber. ''Defense''man.
Gordie Howe is decades older so using your flawed logic where age determines production, he should come back and be the greatest scorer in history. The fact is Hornqvist routinely puts up more goals than Voracek with 08-09 and the lockout season (Hornqvist with less than 28 games in each of those) as the only times where Voracek scored more. Let's look at this year where the Preds' offense is lambasted for poor performance .... once again Hornqvist with more goals so far.

Let's not forget how many of our scoring forwards missed significant parts of last season ... Fisher missed ten games, Bourque missed fourteen, Wilson twenty-three.

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10-30-2013, 06:26 PM
  #97
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Voracek's not really a sniper. He had a fantastic 17% Shooting% last year, which was a big part of his increased production, but is otherwise a mere 8.97% guy for his career.

For comparison, Ovechkin is a 12.2% career guy, often taking 200+ more shots a season than Voracek. Iginla is around 13% for his career. Jeff Carter is an 11.5%. Patrick Kane an 11.5%. Patrick Sharpe an 11.8%. Sergei Kostitsyn was a 16.2%. Hornqvist, who's definitely not a sniper, is a 9.3%.

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10-30-2013, 06:30 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Hornqvist is 3.5 years older than voracek lets not forget. So to compare him to a guy that was only 21 when hornqvist was 24.5 is not very fair. That's like comparing filip forsberg to John Tavares.
The comparison is fine, considering Voracek has played 80 more professional games than Hornqvist. That's nothing like comparing Tavares to Forsberg and the latter's 14 pro games.

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10-30-2013, 06:36 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Gordie Howe is decades older so using your flawed logic where age determines production, he should come back and be the greatest scorer in history. The fact is Hornqvist routinely puts up more goals than Voracek with 08-09 and the lockout season (Hornqvist with less than 28 games in each of those) as the only times where Voracek scored more. Let's look at this year where the Preds' offense is lambasted for poor performance .... once again Hornqvist with more goals so far.

Let's not forget how many of our scoring forwards missed significant parts of last season ... Fisher missed ten games, Bourque missed fourteen, Wilson twenty-three.
No use in trying to make arguments here - MP says Horny can't score, you point out he has outscored Voracek. Instead of acknowledging your point he argues he is a couple of years older (huh??).

MP points that Voracek is struggling because his entire team is struggling. Yet in this logic stream Voracek would outscore everyone here because...wait for it...the entire team is struggling.

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10-30-2013, 10:56 PM
  #100
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Ok. Hornqvist has scored more. I am not denying that lol. No need for the sad faces shaking their heads lol.
My point about the age thing is because a guy is older his body is matured more and he can play with the big boys. That's all I am saying. You can it compare an 18/19 year old to a 22 year old. Even if they start in NHL at same time, one is more physically mature. It's common sense. Voracek was thrown to the wolves right after he was drafted, hornqvist had time to develop and wasn't a hugely hyped prospect like JV.

Seth jones production will pick up over age, he was just drafted and we are not expecting the world from him, like voracek was in NHL right after his draft. Do you expect jones to be the best defenseman in the NHL or even on our team in next three years?!

I wanna ask you guys this honestly....

If you had to pick one forward to lead your offense, would you rather have hornqvist or voracek?? Seriously

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