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Old
10-30-2013, 10:04 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Ok. Hornqvist has scored more. I am not denying that lol. No need for the sad faces shaking their heads lol.
My point about the age thing is because a guy is older his body is matured more and he can play with the big boys. That's all I am saying. You can it compare an 18/19 year old to a 22 year old. Even if they start in NHL at same time, one is more physically mature. It's common sense. Voracek was thrown to the wolves right after he was drafted, hornqvist had time to develop and wasn't a hugely hyped prospect like JV.

Seth jones production will pick up over age, he was just drafted and we are not expecting the world from him, like voracek was in NHL right after his draft. Do you expect jones to be the best defenseman in the NHL or even on our team in next three years?!

I wanna ask you guys this honestly....

If you had to pick one forward to lead your offense, would you rather have hornqvist or voracek?? Seriously
The correct answer is...you'd want neither of those guys to be THE forward to lead your offense. They're both complimentary wingers. Neither is a centerpiece.

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10-30-2013, 10:15 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Ok. Hornqvist has scored more. I am not denying that lol. No need for the sad faces shaking their heads lol.
My point about the age thing is because a guy is older his body is matured more and he can play with the big boys. That's all I am saying. You can it compare an 18/19 year old to a 22 year old. Even if they start in NHL at same time, one is more physically mature. It's common sense. Voracek was thrown to the wolves right after he was drafted, hornqvist had time to develop and wasn't a hugely hyped prospect like JV.

Seth jones production will pick up over age, he was just drafted and we are not expecting the world from him, like voracek was in NHL right after his draft. Do you expect jones to be the best defenseman in the NHL or even on our team in next three years?!

I wanna ask you guys this honestly....

If you had to pick one forward to lead your offense, would you rather have hornqvist or voracek?? Seriously
If I have to pick one of those two ... Hornqvist. Better goal scoring over his career, vocal leader, sets the example.

Check your math ... Hornqvist is not 3.5 years older than Vorachek.

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10-30-2013, 11:48 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
The correct answer is...you'd want neither of those guys to be THE forward to lead your offense. They're both complimentary wingers. Neither is a centerpiece.
I'd have to disagree here. Hornqvist is a prototypical complementary player. Can't do squat offensively on his own. Voracek is more than that. I like the Erat comparison better. They are players you can build a line around. They won't be great lines by any means, but better than what we have.

A better comparison for a player on our team is Wilson. That could be an interesting 1 for 1 swap. Both are struggling and could use a change of scenery.

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10-30-2013, 11:55 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I'd have to disagree here. Hornqvist is a prototypical complementary player. Can't do squat offensively on his own. Voracek is more than that. I like the Erat comparison better. They are players you can build a line around. They won't be great lines by any means, but better than what we have.

A better comparison for a player on our team is Wilson. That could be an interesting 1 for 1 swap. Both are struggling and could use a change of scenery.
Hard to say based on where he's played and who he's played with, but I haven't seen enough from him to be convinced he can be the focal point of a team's offense. I'll buy more skilled and more potential than Hornqvist, but a centerpiece...I just don't think so.

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10-30-2013, 11:58 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Hard to say based on where he's played and who he's played with, but I haven't seen enough from him to be convinced he can be the focal point of a team's offense. I'll buy more skilled and more potential than Hornqvist, but a centerpiece...I just don't think so.
Would you consider Erat or Wilson a centerpiece?

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10-31-2013, 12:09 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Would you consider Erat or Wilson a centerpiece?
No, not at all.

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10-31-2013, 06:56 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
If I have to pick one of those two ... Hornqvist. Better goal scoring over his career, vocal leader, sets the example.

Check your math ... Hornqvist is not 3.5 years older than Vorachek.
Hornqvist is born January 1st 1986
Voracek is August 15 1989.


And I disagree that hornqvist islet valuable than JV

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10-31-2013, 07:14 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Hornqvist is born January 1st 1986
Voracek is August 15 1989.


And I disagree that hornqvist islet valuable than JV
Hornqvist was born January 1, 1987.

Islet? Huh?


Disagree all you want. You're using the exception rather than the rule to prop up Voracek as the magic answer when last season is a glaring anomaly in his performance. He's a good player, but, nothing that we don't already have several of. His usual performance is very Erat or Sergei Kostitsyn like ... both players we let go. Goal scoring wise, his typical season is very Colin Wilson or Craig Smith like.

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10-31-2013, 10:53 AM
  #109
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Islet! Hahaha. My bad. Typo lol. I'm sure you caught the drift though.

Well I bet ya voracek beats hornqvist in points this season, and every other forward on our team by seasons end. I will revisit this in April.

And I double checked and again, I can admit my wrongs, and I was wrong about horny, he was born in 87, the site I checked originally was wrong.

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10-31-2013, 12:16 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Montross View Post
Hornqvist 2009 51 pts, 2010 48 pts, 2011 43 pts.
Voracek 2009 50 pts, 2010 46 pts, 2011 49 pts.

Yes Voracek had a good 48 games with an insane shooting percentage last season. But if you think Hornqvist will not put up the offense we need, your boy Voracek is not the answer either.
Voracek last 82 GP: 30 goals, 42 assists

Hornqvist last 82 GP: 25 goals, 25 assists

People keep saying he had a good 48 games, but his production started at the end of the previous season and into the playoffs. Then they had the lockout and he continued his good production in the shortened season.

Voracek isn't really what I would call a goal scorer. He doesn't have a great shot and he isn't very accurate. He should have twice as many goals as he has if only he was even semi accurate and would shoot more. But to me, his real value is that he a puck possessor and is great at entering the zone on a PP or a rush and keeping the puck and getting things started. He's hard to dispossess and he's strong on his skates. He really is only scratching the surface of his potential. I don't think he'll ever be a 30 goal scorer, but he should be a 20 goal, 50 assist guy.

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10-31-2013, 12:29 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Voracek last 82 GP: 30 goals, 42 assists

Hornqvist last 82 GP: 25 goals, 25 assists

People keep saying he had a good 48 games, but his production started at the end of the previous season and into the playoffs. Then they had the lockout and he continued his good production in the shortened season.

Voracek isn't really what I would call a goal scorer. He doesn't have a great shot and he isn't very accurate. He should have twice as many goals as he has if only he was even semi accurate and would shoot more. But to me, his real value is that he a puck possessor and is great at entering the zone on a PP or a rush and keeping the puck and getting things started. He's hard to dispossess and he's strong on his skates. He really is only scratching the surface of his potential. I don't think he'll ever be a 30 goal scorer, but he should be a 20 goal, 50 assist guy.
He still had an abnormally high shooting percentage over the lockout season - he will not ever sustain that over 82 games. Bottom line, the last thing this team needs is a forward who 'isn't really what [you] would call a goal scorer'.

The only thing this team should trade for, giving up good assets, is a established PPG forward who is not a rental for a few months. This team has its quota of Voraceks already and they sure don't need to be giving up players and picks to get another one.

That's my opinion, and I think I will stop beating this dead horse.

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10-31-2013, 04:47 PM
  #112
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Voracek is better than any forward on our team. Period.
He is only going to get better.


Point of thread, we have weber, josi, jones, for stud dmen.

Who do we have for forwards??

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10-31-2013, 04:55 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Voracek is better than any forward on our team. Period.
He is only going to get better.


Point of thread, we have weber, josi, jones, for stud dmen.

Who do we have for forwards??
A very bold, 100% opinion based post. Empirical data does not support it.

David Legwand has a higher goals per game rate than Voracek. We all get it, you like Voracek and would like to see him as a Pred but that does not make him better than any player. Period.

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10-31-2013, 06:24 PM
  #114
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I agree. It's just my opinion. We are all entitled to them. Obviously from reading this thread others agree with me.

I will revisit this by seasons end. I bet voracek had more points than any guy on our team

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10-31-2013, 07:21 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Voracek is better than any forward on our team. Period.
He is only going to get better.
While I agree with this, you have to keep in mind the cost it would take to acquire him vs how much of an upgrade he would be. He isn't exactly for sale, so I doubt a package will get it done.

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10-31-2013, 07:25 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
No, not at all.
I guess I just have a looser definition of the term. I think you can build a solid 2nd line around Erat (again, pre-2013 version). I feel the same way about Voracek. Unsure about Wilson at this point.

We're missing a player like Erat/Voracek. This team needs more playmakers badly.

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10-31-2013, 07:49 PM
  #117
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I'm very intrigued a thread about Voracek has lived this long. I'm not sure he would really be our answer.

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10-31-2013, 08:38 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I guess I just have a looser definition of the term. I think you can build a solid 2nd line around Erat (again, pre-2013 version). I feel the same way about Voracek. Unsure about Wilson at this point.

We're missing a player like Erat/Voracek. This team needs more playmakers badly.
I think your assessment is pretty accurate.

And yes, I have a fairly narrow classification of players you "build your offense around" or "lead your offense." I take that literally. Those are the guys like Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Kopitar, Getzlaf, the Sedins, etc... Voracek is a consistent producer, but I don't see him, at all, as THE guy that makes your offense go. Same with Erat. That doesn't make guys like Voracek or Erat any less valuable, or needed, it just means you don't really want them to be your best forward.

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10-31-2013, 09:07 PM
  #119
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I just think it's a shame to have so many stud defensemen and not really anyone who is a stud forward, with hopefully (fingers crossed) the exception of forsberg.

Maybe voracek could come here and will end up developing into a superstar, maybe not. Maybe he is the guy, maybe he isn't. But I do think we can all agree we need a stud forward who proves he can dominate in the NHL as a top three guy...

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10-31-2013, 09:18 PM
  #120
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We have one proven stud d-man, one very good player normally partnered with him but with an injury history, and a rookie with a ton of potential but nothing proved ... and a pretty bare cupboard.

Up front we have Smith, Wilson, Forsberg with varying degrees of NHL experience as youngsters ... Hornqvist as a consistent goal scorer when healthy ... plus Sissons, Beck, Watson waiting in the pipeline. Voracek gets more assists per game than many of our players but scores fewer goals than quite a few Preds.

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11-01-2013, 09:11 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Voracek gets more assists per game than many of our players but scores fewer goals than quite a few Preds.
Who are the 'quite a few' predators that score more than voracek?

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11-01-2013, 09:37 PM
  #122
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Is this conversation still happening? We need top 3 forwards. Please stop debating or discussing. Voracek is not the answer.

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11-01-2013, 10:46 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Is this conversation still happening? We need top 3 forwards. Please stop debating or discussing. Voracek is not the answer.
That is your opinion. You don't have to post in this thread or read it if you don't like it.

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11-02-2013, 08:06 AM
  #124
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People defend getting voracek like he's a Malkin or Crosby. He's a good player but nothing like the elite player we sorely need. But hey, let's trade valuable assets for a guy that does pretty much what other guys on this team do.

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11-02-2013, 11:12 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Who are the 'quite a few' predators that score more than voracek?
Go do the math and see. I already have and mentioned several by name. Your Voracek fixation is something I will no longer enable. Where the Preds need to improve is in the area of putting the small black circle through the 4x6 ft red rectangle. Perhaps if you stopped focusing solely on last season's performance and noted every year prior to the lockout and his performance this season you would notice the more accurate statistical model for the player you want to bring in .. .21108 goals per game including the lockout season (Less than Legwand) .17523 without it ... 1g, 3a so far this year (the same total as Nystrom).

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