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Old
10-30-2013, 08:26 PM
  #101
JaredCowenFan
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Biggest Reason: We don't try hard enough, our work ethic is horrendous.

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10-30-2013, 08:38 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
I agree. But I don't think it comes down to adding a Big 4C or some other 3LW. We need to decide who of Gagner, Hemsky, RNH, Perron, Eberle, Yak and Hall are staying and who aren't. I think a Nash type trade for a Dubinsky, Anisimov and Erixon would pay dividends for this team. And no, we can't keep all of them no matter how precious we think they are.
I'm sure my opinion means squat around here, but I honestly think the Oilers could be fixed pretty much overnight with a trade like that. Eberle is the guy I would move. But not just any depth trade, you have to do extended scouting and number crunching and make sure you're targeting the right guys. Dubinsky and Anisimov are both highly versatile (can play wing or center), both are stud defensive players and both dominant possession players. They're both very young too. They were great young players who had worn out their welcome in different ways (Dubinsky, a contractual issue, Anisimov being relegated to the 4th line on some nights) but were no less players because of it, but were highly undervalued by their team.

There are a lot of players like that around the league. Don't look for a big name, look for an effective player in a bad situation.

Example: Eberle and a cap dump to New Jersey for Mark Fayne, Travis Zajac, and Adam Henrique.

At first glance this is horrendous for Edmonton, and you probably hate it. But, I believe that it would make the Oilers a better team. Zajac's name is crap because of that contract, but he's big, a phenomenal defensive player, and is a big part of why the Devils run. Henrique is a great young two-way center who is a PK ace as well as a strong offensive player. And Fayne is the Devils' best defenseman, who is somehow constantly benched.

Hall-RNH-Yakupov
Gagner-Henrique-Hemsky
Perron-Zajac-Arcobello
Smyth-Gordon-Jones

Belov-Petry
Smid-Fayne
Ference-J. Schultz

Looks like a playoff team to me. It'll look better when you can insert Nurse and/or Klefbom in next season. I'm a believer in Dubnyk. The pieces are there, you just have to identify whose name carries more weight than their actual play and sell those guys and buy the ones whose name is worth less than their actual play.

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10-30-2013, 08:43 PM
  #103
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I'd move Yakupov, Hemsky & J. Schultz to fill needs on this team.

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Old
10-30-2013, 08:45 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I'm sure my opinion means squat around here, but I honestly think the Oilers could be fixed pretty much overnight with a trade like that. Eberle is the guy I would move. But not just any depth trade, you have to do extended scouting and number crunching and make sure you're targeting the right guys. Dubinsky and Anisimov are both highly versatile (can play wing or center), both are stud defensive players and both dominant possession players. They're both very young too. They were great young players who had worn out their welcome in different ways (Dubinsky, a contractual issue, Anisimov being relegated to the 4th line on some nights) but were no less players because of it, but were highly undervalued by their team.

There are a lot of players like that around the league. Don't look for a big name, look for an effective player in a bad situation.

Example: Eberle and a cap dump to New Jersey for Mark Fayne, Travis Zajac, and Adam Henrique.

At first glance this is horrendous for Edmonton, and you probably hate it. But, I believe that it would make the Oilers a better team. Zajac's name is crap because of that contract, but he's big, a phenomenal defensive player, and is a big part of why the Devils run. Henrique is a great young two-way center who is a PK ace as well as a strong offensive player. And Fayne is the Devils' best defenseman, who is somehow constantly benched.

Hall-RNH-Yakupov
Gagner-Henrique-Hemsky
Perron-Zajac-Arcobello
Smyth-Gordon-Jones

Belov-Petry
Smid-Fayne
Ference-J. Schultz

Looks like a playoff team to me. It'll look better when you can insert Nurse and/or Klefbom in next season. I'm a believer in Dubnyk. The pieces are there, you just have to identify whose name carries more weight than their actual play and sell those guys and buy the ones whose name is worth less than their actual play.
I agree completely. It would suck to trade Eberle, but at this stage the oilers need to look at moving some quality for quantity. As weird as that sounds.

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10-30-2013, 08:46 PM
  #105
GreatKeith
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Very rarely does a superstar trade work for the team that trades it away.

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Old
10-30-2013, 08:48 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Very rarely does a superstar trade work for the team that trades it away.
Because most teams aren't in our position. Most teams don't have like seven incredibly skilled forwards.

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10-30-2013, 09:15 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by JaredCowenFan View Post
Biggest Reason: We don't try hard enough, our work ethic is horrendous.
Work smarter not harder. I don't buy that it's a lack of effort, I mean look at the leafs first goal as an example, Yakupov realized where he was supposed to be covering late and it was a 2 on 1 as a result. He is quicker to identfy his responsibility then it's not a 2 on 1. The whole team seems to get caught in situations like that where someone realizes too late where they should be and by that time it's too late. Trying hard doesn't help if you're not going to the right spots at the right time.

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Old
10-30-2013, 09:20 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Very rarely does a superstar trade work for the team that trades it away.
It worked for Columbus because they didn't trade their superstar for just any depth, the traded it for specifically targeted players who are much better than their reputation makes it seem.

Remember during the Nash debacle, when Rangers fans were refusing to trade Kreider for Nash straight up? Remember when the trade went down and HF laughed and laughed because "stupid Scott Howsen couldn't even get Kreider!"? Imagine if Columbus had traded Nash for Kreider instead of Anisimov and Dubinsky. They'd be ****ed.

True, usually the team who gets the best player wins the deal, but if you target specific players for specific traits, it can work out for you. MacTavish got great value on the Perron trade, so he seems to have a solid understanding of trade value. I wouldn't be terrified of getting bad value if you traded one of the kids, personally, like I would be if Tambo were still in charge.

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10-30-2013, 09:27 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missinthejets View Post
Work smarter not harder. I don't buy that it's a lack of effort, I mean look at the leafs first goal as an example, Yakupov realized where he was supposed to be covering late and it was a 2 on 1 as a result. He is quicker to identfy his responsibility then it's not a 2 on 1. The whole team seems to get caught in situations like that where someone realizes too late where they should be and by that time it's too late. Trying hard doesn't help if you're not going to the right spots at the right time.
Was just about to post the same thing. This is why some strength and size up front is going to be important to a turn around. Bigger players get more time on the ice for many reasons (strength, reach, better visual look at ice, etc...) We have two players up front who can slow down the play, Perron and RNH. Unfortunately due to his lack of strength Hopkins is not yet able to be consistent in this aspect of his game which really hurts us against bigger teams. Perron being the only player who can do this consistently basically renders him as valuable as any forward we have right now IMO.

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Old
10-30-2013, 09:38 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
It worked for Columbus because they didn't trade their superstar for just any depth, the traded it for specifically targeted players who are much better than their reputation makes it seem.

Remember during the Nash debacle, when Rangers fans were refusing to trade Kreider for Nash straight up? Remember when the trade went down and HF laughed and laughed because "stupid Scott Howsen couldn't even get Kreider!"? Imagine if Columbus had traded Nash for Kreider instead of Anisimov and Dubinsky. They'd be ****ed.

True, usually the team who gets the best player wins the deal, but if you target specific players for specific traits, it can work out for you. MacTavish got great value on the Perron trade, so he seems to have a solid understanding of trade value. I wouldn't be terrified of getting bad value if you traded one of the kids, personally, like I would be if Tambo were still in charge.
It could work, but the counter to this argument is the Phaneuf trade. The Flames had an excess of "elite" defensemen and decided to panic trade Phaneuf for a bunch of pieces (including Stajan, a center on a team that was weak down the middle), and well... The rest is history.

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Old
10-30-2013, 09:53 PM
  #111
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The Flyers are my favriote team but I have always been an oilers fan , i consider them my western conference team.

The oilers real problem is this.

1. Not enough talent on this team.
2. What talent that is on the team is not complimentary of one another.
3. The team is too young and too inexperienced
4. The expectations they are facing are clearly unrealistic.


RNH , Hall Eberle, Yak are all great in only 1 end of the ice. but they are all great under 1 circumstance and that is with the puck on their stick. They literally can't play without the puck. The best out of that unit without the puck is probably yakupov.

IN that sense those these highly talented players are worthwhile their are clearly too many cooks in the kitchen.


Also there are no 2 way players on this team. None of the Forwards can play two way and none of the Dmen can either. It is really pathetic. RNh Hall and Eberle may score a ton of points with the pp they get dominated in EV situations by real teams. You can't have those 3 togethr on a line ever because of how soft they play. Get a power forward for hall and RNH that is a 2 way player and watch that line flourish and dominate.

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Old
10-30-2013, 09:57 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
The Flyers are my favriote team but I have always been an oilers fan , i consider them my western conference team.

The oilers real problem is this.

1. Not enough talent on this team.
2. What talent that is on the team is not complimentary of one another.
3. The team is too young and too inexperienced
4. The expectations they are facing are clearly unrealistic.


RNH , Hall Eberle, Yak are all great in only 1 end of the ice. but they are all great under 1 circumstance and that is with the puck on their stick. They literally can't play without the puck. The best out of that unit without the puck is probably yakupov.

IN that sense those these highly talented players are worthwhile their are clearly too many cooks in the kitchen.


Also there are no 2 way players on this team. None of the Forwards can play two way and none of the Dmen can either. It is really pathetic. RNh Hall and Eberle may score a ton of points with the pp they get dominated in EV situations by real teams. You can't have those 3 togethr on a line ever because of how soft they play. Get a power forward for hall and RNH that is a 2 way player and watch that line flourish and dominate.

Yakupov is useless without the puck right now.....

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10-30-2013, 10:19 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Isaak16 View Post

Yakupov is useless without the puck right now.....
Right but he has that one timer that he can get himself set up for. Hall has that too but yakupov sets himself up for it better

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Old
10-30-2013, 10:22 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
Should we have been more concerned last year when the kids were in okc yet the team down there was hovering around the last playoff spot all the while? It raised a few red flags for me but I brushed it off at the time as they must have no supporting cast or what ever. Is it too much to have expected a contingent of the oilers best players to go down and dominate at that level?
It raised a lot of red flags for me as well, especially when that team started winning much more after the lock out ended.

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10-30-2013, 10:40 PM
  #115
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Right but he has that one timer that he can get himself set up for. Hall has that too but yakupov sets himself up for it better
That one timer hasn't really accomplished much for him in the NHL so far.. I don't know what it is, teammates don't always pass to him, but he's also not very deceptive when it comes to getting open. You know exactly what Yak is doing when he's just standing there ready to take a shot. Personally I think he needs to get closer to the net and take more advantage of rebounds.

But yea, Yak is maybe the worst forward on the team without the puck from what I've seen. Kid needs to play with Gordon, we used to stick rookies with Horcoff and now we have a superior version of Horcoff.

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10-30-2013, 11:05 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by MeestaDeteta View Post
I'd move Yakupov, Hemsky & J. Schultz to fill needs on this team.
and I'd add Klefbom to this list. hate to move Schultz, but if it brings back what we need it got to be done. we simple have to accept the this core of 5 young studs will probably never dominate, they are all good but as a group they are too small. we can keep 3 and use 2 to fill the holes. its so obvious.

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10-30-2013, 11:29 PM
  #117
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the problem is having noobs at every position in the franchise. players, coaches, gms, and exec. vps. u wanna play in the big leagues then get some big league players instead of a bunch of kids. this is why teams play their kids in the AHL, derr get your nooblet training there. what a stupid stupid thing to do, stick a bunch of nooblet kids in the NHL right out of diaper school. good call kevin blowe

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10-31-2013, 06:54 AM
  #118
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We have to change the whole culture of this team:

1. Fire Kevin Lowe - long overdue; the fish starts to rot at the head and he has not managed to instill a winning culture onto this team, no other enterprise would keep somebody as incompetent at this level for so long

2. Keep the following players and make the rest trade bait:
-RNH (too much talent, if we traded him it would bite us big time)
-Hall
-Perron
-Gordon
-Ference
-J.Shultz (we should keep him for PP, but in a lesser role for EV)

I would hate to trade Eberle, but he simply is no superstar who will take the team on his back. Actually, I think he could bring us much needed return. Gagner, Smid, Petry, Hemsky and Yakupov all hold some value as well.

3. Mortgage part of our future: As it looks right now, our first round pick in 2014 could be a highly coveted asset. Everyone laughed about the Leafs when they gave away their first round picks for Kessel but in the long run they certainly got some value out of this trade (wouldn't say they won it clear cut).

I think we all have to get used to the idea that some of our beloved future superstars will have to leave the team to make it better in the long run. And better to start this process now, than waste another season (it will be difficult enough to salvage this season anyway).

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10-31-2013, 08:01 AM
  #119
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Like everyone is saying, one of our big 4 players needs to go to acquire help at multiple positions.

I would never trade RNH or Hall, so that leaves Eberle and Yak. Yak is too unproven at this point in time to get a worthy return, so I would package Eberle and a quality prospect plus a 1st round pick in order to acquire some serious pieces.

Here's a quick list of teams and packages we could possibly get with these pieces and possibly more in play:

DAL: Dillon, Peverley, Oleksiak
NYR: Girardi, Boyle
CBJ: Tyutin, Dubinsky, Umberger (I would add anything to get these three players)
CHI: Seabrook, Bickell (Also would probably have to add)
NSH: Josi, Smith, Gaustad
MTL: Subban
STL: Shattenkirk, Stewart
WSH: Carlson, Chimera, Laich

I think our team is improved in all these trades, especially the DAL, CBJ, CHI, NSH, WSH ones.

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10-31-2013, 10:52 AM
  #120
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Forwards don't capitalize on their chances on even strength or power play. Eberle should have more than 3 goals with the money he is making. He's generating great chances, and he has points, but he needs to start scoring. Same thing with Hemsky, who has consistently been a let down with his injuries.
I really feel like our forwards are trying to be too fancy with the puck. Instead of taking shots, forwards that can score are trying to make fancy passes across the middle which always get intercepted. I don't think we shoot enough period. We pass way more than we shoot, especially on our power play. When is the last time that we scored first in a game? Honestly.The few wins were comebacks.

Lines need to be figured out. Yakupov could be really great for our team, but he needs to get the puck more and shoot more.

Defense has talent, but plays absolutely terrible positional hockey. They are completely out of position in our zone.They are also making amateur mistakes like passing the puck over the middle. Once again trying to be way to fancy with the passes and deking in our zone. All 4 of the goals against Toronto the other night were because of bad defense. It's easy to blame goaltending, but there is no reason whatsoever why there should be 40+ shots on goal a night. That's a defensive issue.

Discipline. We take too many penalties and with our defense it always costs us. Were out of position constantly.

Effort. It happens far too often where the forwards don't even backcheck. The biggest culprits are our supposed top forwards (RNH, Yakupov, Eberle). They just casually skate back after a turnover.

Finally, injuries lately have probably brought down team morale. It's brutal. Hall, Smyth, Dubnky, Perron the other day.



There are glimmers of hope in every game, where our team looks amazing (like an NHL playoff caliber team). The challenge is getting the team to be like that all game and do that every game.

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10-31-2013, 11:17 AM
  #121
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Forwards don't capitalize on their chances on even strength or power play. Eberle should have more than 3 goals with the money he is making. He's generating great chances, and he has points, but he needs to start scoring. Same thing with Hemsky, who has consistently been a let down with his injuries.
I really feel like our forwards are trying to be too fancy with the puck. Instead of taking shots, forwards that can score are trying to make fancy passes across the middle which always get intercepted. I don't think we shoot enough period. We pass way more than we shoot, especially on our power play. When is the last time that we scored first in a game? Honestly.The few wins were comebacks.

Lines need to be figured out. Yakupov could be really great for our team, but he needs to get the puck more and shoot more.

Defense has talent, but plays absolutely terrible positional hockey. They are completely out of position in our zone.They are also making amateur mistakes like passing the puck over the middle. Once again trying to be way to fancy with the passes and deking in our zone. All 4 of the goals against Toronto the other night were because of bad defense. It's easy to blame goaltending, but there is no reason whatsoever why there should be 40+ shots on goal a night. That's a defensive issue.

Discipline. We take too many penalties and with our defense it always costs us. Were out of position constantly.

Effort. It happens far too often where the forwards don't even backcheck. The biggest culprits are our supposed top forwards (RNH, Yakupov, Eberle). They just casually skate back after a turnover.

Finally, injuries lately have probably brought down team morale. It's brutal. Hall, Smyth, Dubnky, Perron the other day.



There are glimmers of hope in every game, where our team looks amazing (like an NHL playoff caliber team). The challenge is getting the team to be like that all game and do that every game.
I would disagree that RNH is a culprit of poor defensive play. There are times when he is outmatched in terms of size/strength but I don't have a problem with his effort.

I was at the Capitals game and although he didn't shine on the scoresheet Nuge was still making some smart stick checks and takeaways that made me think of a Pavel Datsyuk in the making. Clearly not there yet but I could see it happening (or at least a Datsyuk Lite)

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10-31-2013, 12:05 PM
  #122
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real simple:

1. Goaltender
2. Special teams
3. Poor defensemen

oh ya, bad ownership and management

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10-31-2013, 12:14 PM
  #123
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I don't think trading players is the answer. If we were to swap rosters with any of the top teams and they came in playing our system under our management and direction, they would probably suck too.

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10-31-2013, 12:21 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I'm sure my opinion means squat around here, but I honestly think the Oilers could be fixed pretty much overnight with a trade like that. Eberle is the guy I would move. But not just any depth trade, you have to do extended scouting and number crunching and make sure you're targeting the right guys. Dubinsky and Anisimov are both highly versatile (can play wing or center), both are stud defensive players and both dominant possession players. They're both very young too. They were great young players who had worn out their welcome in different ways (Dubinsky, a contractual issue, Anisimov being relegated to the 4th line on some nights) but were no less players because of it, but were highly undervalued by their team.

There are a lot of players like that around the league. Don't look for a big name, look for an effective player in a bad situation.

Example: Eberle and a cap dump to New Jersey for Mark Fayne, Travis Zajac, and Adam Henrique.

At first glance this is horrendous for Edmonton, and you probably hate it. But, I believe that it would make the Oilers a better team. Zajac's name is crap because of that contract, but he's big, a phenomenal defensive player, and is a big part of why the Devils run. Henrique is a great young two-way center who is a PK ace as well as a strong offensive player. And Fayne is the Devils' best defenseman, who is somehow constantly benched.

Hall-RNH-Yakupov
Gagner-Henrique-Hemsky
Perron-Zajac-Arcobello
Smyth-Gordon-Jones

Belov-Petry
Smid-Fayne
Ference-J. Schultz

Looks like a playoff team to me. It'll look better when you can insert Nurse and/or Klefbom in next season. I'm a believer in Dubnyk. The pieces are there, you just have to identify whose name carries more weight than their actual play and sell those guys and buy the ones whose name is worth less than their actual play.
I agree with this completely. We shouldn't be looking to swap stars. We need to isolate and address each need like Columbus did. One can dream though

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Old
10-31-2013, 12:42 PM
  #125
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I don't think trading players is the answer. If we were to swap rosters with any of the top teams and they came in playing our system under our management and direction, they would probably suck too.
Right...I'm sure if we were to swap rosters with the Blackhawks or the Bruins we'd be just as bad.

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