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It's about time for a Kreider thread

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Old
10-31-2013, 01:38 PM
  #101
Tawnos
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont care. My point, in all of this, is it was on Kreider as to why (real or perceived) he wasn't showing any effort most nights. He seems to have corrected the problems - good on him.

Now, with a few more games of legitimate effort, maybe we can move on to what kind of NHL player he will be. Because, despite what some of the brainiacs around here think, that is to be determined.
The problem is that you only seem to be assuming that he was being lazy (not putting in effort) because you aren't actually analyzing the problem. The mental game isn't simple, despite much of the physical game being so. It's all well and good to say "just move your feet" but if a player isn't when he's shown no indication of laziness in the past, there's usually another reason why. I was complaining about many of the same things in Kreider's game as you were. I'm just not content to leave it at that. If you don't care about that aspect of the game, why bother responding to the people who do?

I agree that we're not to the point where Kreider has established himself as an NHL player. There is definitely a marked difference between the way he's playing right now and the way he's played at any other point in his pro career... and that includes the playoff games in 2012. It's cause for optimism.

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Old
10-31-2013, 01:57 PM
  #102
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The two aren't mutually exclusive. Getting to the net is different than parking in front of the net. Kreider's speed would be useless if he was "parked." The "watch how Hagelin plays" stuff was abut moving your feet, using your speed to get around defenders, winning races, etc. He didn't tell him to BE Hags, but he clearly wanted CK to adopt some of the characteristics of Hags' game (the very same characteristics that have made CK so effective over the last 3 games).
No.

Quote:
Left wing Chris Kreider, perhaps the fastest skater on the Rangers, is learning to ease off the throttle. It was something he tried to alter during his stay in Hartford before he was recalled last Monday.

"I'm slowing my skating down a little bit . . . trying not to get too far ahead of the play, timing plays a little bit better,'' said Kreider, 22, who picked up his first point, an assist on Brad Richards' goal, in Philadelphia. In early preseason games, he said, "I was just going a million miles per hour every shift; instead of trying to do A, B and C, just try to focus on A."
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...-fly-1.6326206

Kreider is not Hagelin but the previous coach tried to make him into Hagelin without having seen him play a single second.

Quote:
Rookie Chris Kreider, who joined the Rangers on Wednesday and was a healthy scratch Thursday night, had a Game 1 homework assignment: Keep your eye on No. 62.

"I was told to watch Carl Hagelin," Kreider said. "How he hounds pucks, the puck pursuit, the energy he brings to the game."
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...earn-1.3658140

Kreider does not play like Hagelin who plays like the energizer bunny.

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Old
10-31-2013, 02:20 PM
  #103
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Except one thing that has made Kreider quite effective these past couple of games is that he has been hounding the puck carriers in the offensive zone...

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10-31-2013, 02:38 PM
  #104
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Except one thing that has made Kreider quite effective these past couple of games is that he has been hounding the puck carriers in the offensive zone...
less hounding... more bullying of the puck

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Old
10-31-2013, 02:49 PM
  #105
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Except one thing that has made Kreider quite effective these past couple of games is that he has been hounding the puck carriers in the offensive zone...
yeah but that doesn't fit the narrative

everyone knows Torts ruined Krieder last year and his improvement thus far has nothing to do with the gradual progression experienced by the overwhelming majority of young talented professional hockey players

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Old
10-31-2013, 03:00 PM
  #106
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I'm pretty sure that Kreider's disappointing first pro season was not an effort on his part to get his coach fired. It's almost as if there are a couple people here trying to infer such.

Some of the problem IMO was that with the lockout and the shortened season and no training camp Tortorella didn't have the time or the patience to get Chris's game up to speed to play in a way that he wanted him to. He went with the players he knew and of those he didn't know he went with vets like Pyatt, Halpern, Asham. Chris when he was up with the Rangers kind of got stuck out in the no man's land of over thinking and playing 4th line minutes with the worst offensive forwards on the team.

Should not compare his game to Miller's. Miller is more your up and down your wing winger. Even though he's younger he has a stronger foundation of a playing career to draw from.

That Kreider seems to have turned a corner should be a reason to rejoice not a reason to grumble about his struggles a year ago. Like it or not last year if only because of the lockout was a ****ed up season for lots of players--and it's not surprising that a first year pro would be greatly affected by it.

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Old
10-31-2013, 03:15 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The problem is that you only seem to be assuming that he was being lazy (not putting in effort) because you aren't actually analyzing the problem. The mental game isn't simple, despite much of the physical game being so. It's all well and good to say "just move your feet" but if a player isn't when he's shown no indication of laziness in the past, there's usually another reason why. I was complaining about many of the same things in Kreider's game as you were. I'm just not content to leave it at that. If you don't care about that aspect of the game, why bother responding to the people who do?

I agree that we're not to the point where Kreider has established himself as an NHL player. There is definitely a marked difference between the way he's playing right now and the way he's played at any other point in his pro career... and that includes the playoff games in 2012. It's cause for optimism.
Excellent points. i think Bleed Ranger was misinterpreting what i was saying. i never excused kreider however it was never lack of effort. Kreider needed more seasoning and experience and i think he is starting to understand the nhl game. The scary part is that he can be eve better and when he starts getting more favored bounces he will score a lot of goals

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Old
10-31-2013, 03:19 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont care. My point, in all of this, is it was on Kreider as to why (real or perceived) he wasn't showing any effort most nights. He seems to have corrected the problems - good on him.

Now, with a few more games of legitimate effort, maybe we can move on to what kind of NHL player he will be. Because, despite what some of the brainiacs around here think, that is to be determined.

I gotta be honest you are acting a little nasty. having different opinions is fine , in fact it makes for great conversation. however you take it a too far. I mean you accused me of basically being delusional and in this post you questioned people's intelligence. You seem knowledgable but need to work on the manners/respect of people

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Old
10-31-2013, 03:28 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Excellent points. i think Bleed Ranger was misinterpreting what i was saying. i never excused kreider however it was never lack of effort. Kreider needed more seasoning and experience and i think he is starting to understand the nhl game. The scary part is that he can be eve better and when he starts getting more favored bounces he will score a lot of goals
I didnt misunderstand a thing. Tawnos summed it up pretty nicely. Some people like to call a spade a spade such as "Kreider looks like a slouch out there, he better pick it up," and some people like to make excuses -- in this instance it was excuses as to why Kreider couldn't move his feet. You spent months upon months trying trying to explain away why there was a perception of Kreider playing like a slouch. Whatever the reasoning, Im glad its fixed even though I think it took way too long.

As for the Hagelin comparisons -- the #1 reason for Kreider's success is hes using his speed to get in on the forecheck quickly. Sound like someone else we know?

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Old
10-31-2013, 03:54 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I didnt misunderstand a thing. Tawnos summed it up pretty nicely. Some people like to call a spade a spade such as "Kreider looks like a slouch out there, he better pick it up," and some people like to make excuses -- in this instance it was excuses as to why Kreider couldn't move his feet. You spent months upon months trying trying to explain away why there was a perception of Kreider playing like a slouch. Whatever the reasoning, Im glad its fixed even though I think it took way too long.

As for the Hagelin comparisons -- the #1 reason for Kreider's success is hes using his speed to get in on the forecheck quickly. Sound like someone else we know?
Again i never made excuses for kreider. he simply needed more time. You are hell bent on proving that kreider was a lazy ******* lol

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:30 PM
  #111
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Excuses and reasons are a semantic difference. We
are really talking about the same thing.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:36 PM
  #112
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It's funny that CK is saying he had to make an effort to slow down his skating, but he's looked faster in the past few games than he ever has at the NHL

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10-31-2013, 04:45 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
I gotta be honest you are acting a little nasty. having different opinions is fine , in fact it makes for great conversation. however you take it a too far. I mean you accused me of basically being delusional and in this post you questioned people's intelligence. You seem knowledgable but need to work on the manners/respect of people
This surprises you? You're dealing with a know it all who when challenged becomes one of the saddest forms of life; an internet tough guy.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:47 PM
  #114
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It's one thing to be lazy and quite another to be confused and frustrated. I think with Kreider it was mainly the latter.

Again: time, patience, being free from injury and being on the same page as your coaching staff as to what your role is are all parts of what seem to be falling into place now.

and to repeat: Kreider was always the one that was going to make this work or not. He has the luxury of knowing that if he does the things he needs to be doing combined with the proper effort level, that his overwhelming gifts will lead to scoring chances and solid two way play.

There is no way this kid should bust. Just no way.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:49 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
It's funny that CK is saying he had to make an effort to slow down his skating, but he's looked faster in the past few games than he ever has at the NHL
He's using his speed at the right times; Timing is very important in the NHL. You could do crazy high-tempo drum solos but it doesn't mean anything if your timing is off. I think he plays like a much more offensively gifted Hagelin. He get's in there, causes chaos with his speed and power, but after that he's creating scoring chances.

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Old
10-31-2013, 05:51 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Again i never made excuses for kreider. he simply needed more time. You are hell bent on proving that kreider was a lazy ******* lol
I never called him lazy, ever.

Im more concerned that a player could be so late with the uptake that moving your feet is paramount to trying to think the game through.

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Old
10-31-2013, 06:58 PM
  #117
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here we go with the exaggerations

i didn't say he has lindros potential or will ever be good as lindros. and no, i don't forget how good he was, and had he not had the concussion problem he would be one of the greatest to lace em up. i simply stated that is was rare to see a player with such size and strength possess such a unique skill set. hitting, speed, shooting, agility, hard to knock off the puck etc. that is what made me say lindros esque. can kreider take a step backwards and lose his intensity? sure, but it was nice to see him play like the player we all envisioned he should be when he was drafted. and get rewarded with a goal to boot. no sure things in this business though.

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Old
10-31-2013, 07:05 PM
  #118
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forgot to add

as a side note, you guys are right. kreider is not hagelin, but if hounding down pucks and finishing a check keeps him more engaged in the game, and he is able to keep him compete level him i believe his other attributes start to shine thru. i think that is what the coach is trying to drill into his mind. hagelin and cally give 110% on every shift. that is what coach is trying to instill in kreider so he stays engaged and doesn't become a complacent floater who chases the puck around the ice.

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Old
10-31-2013, 08:42 PM
  #119
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can we finally officially welcome this guy to the NHL? who lit the fire under his ass?

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Old
10-31-2013, 08:45 PM
  #120
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Keep it going Chris!

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Old
10-31-2013, 09:00 PM
  #121
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For three games now, he's looked like Zach Parise. He's playing like a superstar.

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10-31-2013, 09:01 PM
  #122
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One thing I noticed was that after a turnover or a change in possession, he was typically the first forward back in our zone. While the offensive development is certainly the most important thing for him, it's great to see him striving to backcheck hard and play defense.

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10-31-2013, 09:05 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
For three games now, he's looked like Zach Parise. He's playing like a superstar.
Ehh, let's dial it back a notch or two. Has he looked very good? Yes. Superstar caliber? That's Crosby/Oveckin/Stamkos territory, and to that he's not even close.

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10-31-2013, 09:09 PM
  #124
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Ehh, let's dial it back a notch or two. Has he looked very good? Yes. Superstar caliber? That's Crosby/Oveckin/Stamkos territory, and to that he's not even close.
Very few are. Like you said crosby ovechkin and Stamkos are really by themselves. even nash despite being a bigtime scorer isnt on taht level. We dont need kreider to be a superstar but if he can chip in 25-30 goals which looks like he might that will help a lot

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10-31-2013, 09:09 PM
  #125
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Ehh, let's dial it back a notch or two. Has he looked very good? Yes. Superstar caliber? That's Crosby/Oveckin/Stamkos territory, and to that he's not even close.
Trust me, I'm very tempered in my excitement . But I think the way Kreider has played, at least the last two games, has been star (i.e. Parise) level. Do I expect him to keep that up consistently? Absolutely not. But I hope to see this level of performance from him every so often, and maybe 80% of this level pretty regularly.

I genuinely think he was the best skater in both the game against the Isles and the game tonight.

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