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Old
10-31-2013, 03:56 PM
  #26
Tedi
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I don't necessarily have a problem with trading him (he'd be the first out the door if I had to choose). But I'd rather see him traded for something better than what we've seen proposed, ideally a #1 or potential #1 D.
Exactly

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10-31-2013, 03:56 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
Well, I guess a lot of what this comes down to are my views on Eberle. When I watch Eberle play, I don't see the "superstar/core" player that a lot of people here do. Of course the skill-set is obvious, but I see a player that 1) doesn't consistently compete hard, and has become
increasingly prone to tunnel vision 2) gets too much credit for putting up points against weaker teams and doesn't take enough flack for not producing against tougher teams, 3) vanishes completely and has no answer whatsoever for opponents playing him tough defensively. A few successful toe-drags and nice goals here and there aren't enough to make me consider this guy a franchise player. His production is almost entirely based on if the guys he is playing with are "on". If he is asked to be the go-to guy on a line, unless he is playing against weaker competition, he will struggle. I honestly don't see him surpassing the 76 points he had 2 years ago, unless he is riding on the coat tails of Hall and RNH.

I don't dispute that he is a much more skilled player than Wayne Simmonds, but based on the group of forwards that we have, I think that the TYPE skillset Eberle has is too redundant and that Wayne Simmonds would be more valuable to this team, based on what he brings. More points doesn't equal more valuable.
Make no wonder you are disappointed. Franchise player? That's a designation for only a small set of players in the league IMO.

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Old
10-31-2013, 03:59 PM
  #28
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Here's a shot at a proposal

To Edmonton

Dan Girardi
Derek Brassard
NYR 2014 conditional pick (If Hemsky re-signs we get this years 2nd rd pick, if he does not we get their 3rd)
'14 3rd rd pick

To NYR

Hemsky (retain 50% of this years salary)
Smid
Marincin
Conditional draft pick (if Girardi re-signs they get our '15 1st rd pick, if he walks they get this years 3rd rd pick)

I know this would need some adjusting but Girardi I think is the guy to go after, he's a good all round defenseman, has a right hand shot, there isn't a ntc to and may not require as much to aquire. I'm no expert on valueing draft picks, so dont flame me on that. The kick would be getting Girardi to re-sign, but if he comes and makes it clear he's not willing to stay, he could be flipped at the trade deadline for someone else.
any thoughts at all from anyone?? I threw this on the trades board to see what kind of reaction it gets

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
any thoughts at all from anyone?? I threw this on the trades board to see what kind of reaction it gets
Meh, I like Girardi but not to the tune of 2 roster players and a 1st (potentially). I know you threw Brassard in there but I have absolutely no interest in him.

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10-31-2013, 04:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
any thoughts at all from anyone?? I threw this on the trades board to see what kind of reaction it gets
The value is probably pretty close. I just don't know if the Rags are moving Girardi with rumors of Staal leaving next year.

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10-31-2013, 04:09 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I don't necessarily have a problem with trading him (he'd be the first out the door if I had to choose). But I'd rather see him traded for something better than what we've seen proposed, ideally a #1 or potential #1 D.
O don't get me wrong I would to, but what true number 1 defenceman is available? Teams don't trade those guys because they no how much they're worth to their respective teams. When I look at the deal with Philly I ask myself does this make us a better TEAM and its a resounding YES. Simmonds bring the grit & skill that we've been missing in the top 6. Everyone is screaming for a guy like this! Then you get a player with a ton of upside in Couturier who IMO is going to be a beast of a two way player in a few years(think Martin Hanzal who scores more points). Couturier also plays LW so he could help Gordon anchor that 3rd line for now and hopefully a guy like Pitlick on the other side. Then you get a guy like Coburn who plays tougher then Smid, can actually make a pass and can be relied upon to play 20+ minutes a night. IMO he's the perfect partner for Petry or J.Schultz. This is a no brainer deal for me but I really dislike Smid so I'm somewhat biased.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:11 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Meh, I like Girardi but not to the tune of 2 roster players and a 1st (potentially). I know you threw Brassard in there but I have absolutely no interest in him.
I'd like to know what happened to Brassard. I thought he'd be a good sleeper pick, but like that whole team he has failed.

The one thing that scares me about Girardi is his age. Defensive d-men at his age can be done any year.

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10-31-2013, 04:16 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I'd like to know what happened to Brassard. I thought he'd be a good sleeper pick, but like that whole team he has failed.

The one thing that scares me about Girardi is his age. Defensive d-men at his age can be done any year.
He turns 30 in April and this his 8th season. He's hitting his prime now

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:18 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I'd like to know what happened to Brassard. I thought he'd be a good sleeper pick, but like that whole team he has failed.

The one thing that scares me about Girardi is his age. Defensive d-men at his age can be done any year.
We are in agreement there...I wouldn't make that deal.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:20 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
Here's a shot at a proposal

To Edmonton

Dan Girardi
Derek Brassard
NYR 2014 conditional pick (If Hemsky re-signs we get this years 2nd rd pick, if he does not we get their 3rd)
'14 3rd rd pick

To NYR

Hemsky (retain 50% of this years salary)
Smid
Marincin
Conditional draft pick (if Girardi re-signs they get our '15 1st rd pick, if he walks they get this years 3rd rd pick)

I know this would need some adjusting but Girardi I think is the guy to go after, he's a good all round defenseman, has a right hand shot, there isn't a ntc to and may not require as much to aquire. I'm no expert on valueing draft picks, so dont flame me on that. The kick would be getting Girardi to re-sign, but if he comes and makes it clear he's not willing to stay, he could be flipped at the trade deadline for someone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
any thoughts at all from anyone?? I threw this on the trades board to see what kind of reaction it gets
No.

Girardi is a UFA - there's no reason to think that the would want to extend in Edmonton, if he wouldn't in NYR.

Hemsky is a UFA. Why would he want to sign in NYR?

Brassard is a young centre that NYR likes.

What is NYR looking for? They want a top six scorer, more physical presence and players who will grow and develop in NY.

You could just exclude Brassard, Marincin, etc. out of the trade and just make it
Hemsky plus Arcobello/pick for Girardi.

UFA for UFA, much like Islanders/Buffalo trade.

More than likely though, a team making a playoff run would make a better trade for Girardi because they won't be as concerned about losing Girardi to UFA.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
He turns 30 in April and this his 8th season. He's hitting his prime now
Well perhaps or perhaps not. Dmen are funny, they take a long time to develop but few can maintain it throughout their careers. The rigours of playing the position I guess.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:22 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
He turns 30 in April and this his 8th season. He's hitting his prime now
Volchenkov was 28 or 29 and the same was said about him. He has sucked his whole time there. Physical shot blockers break down earlier than a lot of guys. Girardi's best days are more than likely close to done. Looking him up to a 5 year deal(which I suspect he gets) could be god awful.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:29 PM
  #38
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Realistically, the Oiler trades would probably be one of two varieties:

a) dump UFA for prospects, picks, or guys who can help sooner than later. e.g. Nick Schultz, Ales Hemsky.

b) go after players who need a change in location.

Philly is apparently looking to get rid of Coburn, Hartnell, Meszaros, but all three are signed to lengthy contracts, horribly in some cases.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:32 PM
  #39
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We need to be looking at Columbus fellas. They have everything we are looking for. Apparently Dubinsky is untouchable, but if he isn't I have two slightly altered proposals to greatly improve our club.

Jordan Eberle
Ladislav Smid
Ryan Jones
Martin Gernat

Fedor Tyutin
Brandon Dubinsky
R.J. Umberger (50% salary)

Or if Dubinsky is untouchable,

Jordan Eberle
Nick Schultz
Ryan Jones

Fedor Tyutin
R.J. Umberger (50% salary)
Nick Foligno


Hall-RNH-Hemsky
Dubinsky-Gagner-Perron
Umberger-Gordon-Yakupov
Joensuu-Arcobello-Eager
Gazdic-Acton-Hamilton
Smyth

Tyutin-Petry
Ference-J.Schultz
Belov-Larsen
N.Schultz

That lineup gives us 6 or 7 players capable of playing centre if injuries happen during the game. Dubinsky and Umberger are huge upgrades. They are big, play physical and win all their battles. Tyutin is an amazing player and would be our best defenceman.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:36 PM
  #40
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Ya I don't see any top pairing guys getting dealt. What is available are players with size who can play a top nine role. While both Eberle and Yakupov have the potential and ability to be first line wingers, there lies the problem. We have a surplus of elite wingers and a extreme lack of players that have any size. Even if Couturier is our 3rd line C and thus far in his career he is excelling better defensively then offensively, if we can get him along with a second line player that can bring physicality aka Simmonds I think we win the trade.

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10-31-2013, 04:44 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DrDreidelz View Post
Ya I don't see any top pairing guys getting dealt. What is available are players with size who can play a top nine role. While both Eberle and Yakupov have the potential and ability to be first line wingers, there lies the problem. We have a surplus of elite wingers and a extreme lack of players that have any size. Even if Couturier is our 3rd line C and thus far in his career he is excelling better defensively then offensively, if we can get him along with a second line player that can bring physicality aka Simmonds I think we win the trade.
I disagree because we need a defenceman who can step in as a #1 for a season or two until (hopefully) Nurse or Ekblad can handle it. This is why I am going so hard for Tyutin lately. Guy is a stud and can be had for not a kings ransom. Imagine our D in two years.

Tyutin-Petry
Nurse-Ekblad
Klefbom-J.Schultz

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:44 PM
  #42
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Im looking at next year and looking at locks for the team

Perron - RNH - Eberle
- THIS SHOULD BE OUR TOP LINE. RNH is developing a good two way game, Perron and Eberle have shown chemistry, and Perron is a skilled **** disturber who can bang home a rebound

Hall - Arcobello - ????
- I know what people may say, Arcobello over Gagner?!?!?! Arcobellos only problem is his size which he plays bigger then anyways and he is snake bitten. Fixing your shot is much easier then everything Gagner has to fix (Faceoffs, fighting for the puck and defense). This line needs a good right winger to compliment Hall. Hemsky will probably be traded, if not he can be placed on this line and from how things have been going Hall doesn't seem to like Yakupov at all so putting him on with Hall won't work.

Joensuu - Gordon - Pitlick
- This line can check, be annoying as **** and can score a few goals. Joensuu has been great when uninjured, Gordon has been a faceoff machine and Pitlick appear to have grown into this role perfectly

Gazdic - ???? - ????
- Gazdic is the only lock for this line. He can fight, he isn't a liability and we don't pay much for him. The center and right wing position can be fought over by many in our system.

???? - Petry
- Petry is our current best defensemen, the only one we have that can play on the top pairing and not look awful, Nurse can later fill this spot but for next year, we need to find a #1 to play here.

Ferrence - Nurse
- Ferrence is a solid guy with a ton of work ethic who can slightly shelter Nurse but still be an annoyance for other teams

???? - J Schultz
- This is where Schultz belongs, he is to good of a power play guy to get rid of, but he isn't defensive enough to play higher up, his partner could be Belov or depending on how other defensemen grow they could take this spot

????/Bachman
- As far as I am concerned Bachman IS our backup. Preferrably we can score a true starter but if not Dubnyk and Bachman can be more of a 1a/1b and share starts

So that gives us a bunch of trade bait
Hemsky, Smid, Jones, Yakupov, Gagner, Dubynk
We need a tough right winger that can play right wing and can play second line minutes, a #1 d man and a number 1 goalie. We might over pay to get them but its completely possible. Girardi from NY potentially for our #1 d, Simmonds from PHI for #2 right wing and I cant think of a goalie that we could get...

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:50 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I don't necessarily have a problem with trading him (he'd be the first out the door if I had to choose). But I'd rather see him traded for something better than what we've seen proposed, ideally a #1 or potential #1 D.
Eberle doesn't get you a #1 D.

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10-31-2013, 04:51 PM
  #44
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Teaching someone to score is the hardest possible thing to teach. We tried with Hemsky for YEARS. Arcobello not finishing is a big problem if your already committing to him as top 6. I like Arco and I think him in a Marchant 3rd line role is more fitting. This BS about Gagner not winning face-offs wasn't apparent last game wasn't he over 70%?

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10-31-2013, 04:58 PM
  #45
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I know alot of people dislike him but I wouldn't mind seeing Phaneuf in an Oilers jersey. I think him and Petry could make an effective pairing.

Anyone think there is a chance Leafs move him at the deadline if it looks like they aren't going to be able to come to terms on an extension?

If that did happen and the Oilers we're allowed to talk him Phaneuf and he wanted to sign an extension with us I would move something like our '15 1st + Smid +prospect + later pick in Exchange for Phaneuf (UFA) + Reimer (RFA) + Liles (dump)


I know alot of leafs fans will say they aren't interested in moving either of them right now but I'm looking at this from a TDD point of view and by then they will know whether Dion is going to resign and also they should have a better idea of who is going to become the definite #1 goalie. Both of their goalies have been playing pretty well and I can;t imagine they will both be happy in a platoon role past this season.

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10-31-2013, 04:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SupremeTeam16 View Post
I know alot of people dislike him but I wouldn't mind seeing Phaneuf in an Oilers jersey. I think him and Petry could make an effective pairing.

Anyone think there is a chance Leafs move him at the deadline if it looks like they aren't going to be able to come to terms on an extension?

If that did happen and the Oilers we're allowed to talk him Phaneuf and he wanted to sign an extension with us I would move something like our '15 1st + Smid +prospect + later pick in Exchange for Phaneuf (UFA) + Reimer (RFA) + Liles (dump)


I know alot of leafs fans will say they aren't interested in moving either of them right now but I'm looking at this from a TDD point of view and by then they will know whether Dion is going to resign and also they should have a better idea of who is going to become the definite #1 goalie. Both of their goalies have been playing pretty well and I can;t imagine they will both be happy in a platoon role past this season.
Phaneuf would be a definite upgrade on this team but if he wants over 7 mil I don't know if we can afford that

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Old
10-31-2013, 05:15 PM
  #47
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Simmonds is a major downgrade on Eberle.

And I'm just going to ignore that whole CBJ trade proposed. Gross.

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10-31-2013, 05:16 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
Simmonds is a major downgrade on Eberle.

And I'm just going to ignore that whole CBJ trade proposed. Gross.
No surprise to see you in here. You complain about every trade proposal that involves the kids. Maybe you'd prefer being a mediocre team, or perhaps in 15 years when we've filled out entire roster with 1st overalls.

You're too ignorant to realize you can't get anyone good for scraps. You want this team to fail, you're not a fan.

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10-31-2013, 05:19 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by duul View Post
No surprise to see you in here. You complain about every trade proposal that involves the kids. Maybe you'd prefer being a mediocre team, or perhaps in 15 years when we've filled out entire roster with 1st overalls.

You're too ignorant to realize you can't get anyone good for scraps.
No, I complain about every trade proposal that makes this team worse. I would happily trade Eberle for the right deal.

Simmonds, Umberger, etc... yea, that's not the right deal.

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10-31-2013, 05:20 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by duul View Post
No surprise to see you in here. You complain about every trade proposal that involves the kids. Maybe you'd prefer being a mediocre team, or perhaps in 15 years when we've filled out entire roster with 1st overalls.

You're too ignorant to realize you can't get anyone good for scraps. You want this team to fail, you're not a fan.
The problem is if you get rid of Eberle and Hemsky doesn't stay our right wing sucks after Yakupov and Yak right now is definitely worse then Eberle and we don't even know if he is going to be great. Yak can carry as much value as Eberle cause he is young and raw especially with the team and Yak seeming to clash

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