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Old
11-01-2013, 09:44 AM
  #151
mactforcoach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord View Post
what's wrong with the Oilers?
Eakins was quoted in today's paper saying two things things that help sum it up.

"I assumed we knew what traditional defense zone coverage was. It was clear that we didn't."

"I see our team is excited to score goals. boy they like to score. But we need a group that is equally excited to stop goals. I'm not sure our group is wired like that"


so it seems a lot of the problem has been the coaching in the last 4 years and the players not bothering or not being forced to learn how to play a complete game.
As much as I find Eakins to be somewhat arrogant I have to agree with his comments. Over the past few years this team has been all about run & gun hockey. We drafted elite goal scorers and that's what we want from them. Until now the young guns have been allowed to play a one dimensional game, all offence. Eakins wants to change that and make them more complete players. Unfortunately we will be on the loosing end of a lot of games while they learn.

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11-01-2013, 09:47 AM
  #152
Playa Hejda
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Part of the same group that set the force in motion. Great. You and me have faith in very different things.

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11-01-2013, 09:48 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Playa Hedja View Post
Part of the same group that set the force in motion. Great. You and me have faith in very different things.
You been by being the first coach to get fired? Because otherwise, this doesn't make sense.

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11-01-2013, 10:12 AM
  #154
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If we could just figure out what we were doing right, 212 days ago...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1395193

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11-01-2013, 10:23 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by mactforcoach View Post
As much as I find Eakins to be somewhat arrogant I have to agree with his comments. Over the past few years this team has been all about run & gun hockey. We drafted elite goal scorers and that's what we want from them. Until now the young guns have been allowed to play a one dimensional game, all offence. Eakins wants to change that and make them more complete players. Unfortunately we will be on the loosing end of a lot of games while they learn.
Agreed.

But still...it is mind boggling these players take SO LONG to figure out something SO OBVIOUS.

The idea that most of them are still where they were 2-3 years ago in terms of what they're willing to COMMIT to is shameful.

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11-01-2013, 11:39 AM
  #156
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Katz, Lowe, MacT, Smith, Buchberger. Only constants in the Oilers culture of suck. Coaches have come and gone. Players too.

What could it possibly hurt to change one if not all those guys( Katz ain't going anywhere obviously).

Edmonton sports fans are dysfunctional in our need for alumni running our teams, gotta hold onto the past glory.

Forgot about Billy Moores and Scott Howsen.

Kinda weird to me.

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11-01-2013, 12:01 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord View Post
what's wrong with the Oilers?
Eakins was quoted in today's paper saying two things things that help sum it up.

"I assumed we knew what traditional defense zone coverage was. It was clear that we didn't."

"I see our team is excited to score goals. boy they like to score. But we need a group that is equally excited to stop goals. I'm not sure our group is wired like that"


so it seems a lot of the problem has been the coaching in the last 4 years and the players not bothering or not being forced to learn how to play a complete game.
clearly a kick in the nuts to previous head coaches as well as Steve Smith - cant see how that goes over well even if its true.

newsflash*** Hey Dallas, you are now the head coach and have been for 14 games. its time to stop blaming others -its squarely now on you. i also noticed you didnt comment on how your special teams went from top ten into the gutter under your watch - who do you blame for that? oh, right probably Acton, whom you hand picked, and who is notorious for having crap special teams wherever he has been.

you have a lot of growing up to do Dallas. This isnt a dumb fan base. people here are smart and know this team and the market. your eloquent press conferences will only go so far with this crowd, and they are wearing thin on many of us. you just delivered us our second worst start in franchise history - that speak volumes.

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11-01-2013, 12:17 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Dee View Post
clearly a kick in the nuts to previous head coaches as well as Steve Smith - cant see how that goes over well even if its true.

newsflash*** Hey Dallas, you are now the head coach and have been for 14 games. its time to stop blaming others -its squarely now on you. i also noticed you didnt comment on how your special teams went from top ten into the gutter under your watch - who do you blame for that? oh, right probably Acton, whom you hand picked, and who is notorious for having crap special teams wherever he has been.

you have a lot of growing up to do Dallas. This isnt a dumb fan base. people here are smart and know this team and the market. your eloquent press conferences will only go so far with this crowd, and they are wearing thin on many of us. you just delivered us our second worst start in franchise history - that speak volumes.
I hope his arrogance is just because he realizes he jumped into the deep end. Your assistant made the teams strengths worse, and you expect the team to work for it, then stop *****ing about how much tougher it is than you thought. If the players don't get anything gifted to them, then you're not going to have an easy time without putting the work in too.

Even though the job was handed to you by MacT.

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11-01-2013, 12:59 PM
  #159
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I like that he's arrogant. Also, Smith and Buch should have been gone years ago. I hated that Eakins kept them around.

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11-01-2013, 01:07 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Dee View Post
clearly a kick in the nuts to previous head coaches as well as Steve Smith - cant see how that goes over well even if its true.

newsflash*** Hey Dallas, you are now the head coach and have been for 14 games. its time to stop blaming others -its squarely now on you. i also noticed you didnt comment on how your special teams went from top ten into the gutter under your watch - who do you blame for that? oh, right probably Acton, whom you hand picked, and who is notorious for having crap special teams wherever he has been.

you have a lot of growing up to do Dallas. This isnt a dumb fan base. people here are smart and know this team and the market. your eloquent press conferences will only go so far with this crowd, and they are wearing thin on many of us. you just delivered us our second worst start in franchise history - that speak volumes.
he did also bring up special teams, actually. I just didn't quote that part.
I thought the fact that some of the players haven't learned and/or choose not to commit to defensive responsibilities merited specific mention.

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11-01-2013, 01:22 PM
  #161
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Every game and every time I read/hear a quote from Eakins I become less and less impressed with the guy. I'm willing to give him a fair chance at letting him do it his way, but at this point in time I'd have to say the hiring was a mistake. If things don't change soon, something needs to be done.

He's not the only one in management that needs to be accountable. What I don't want to see is this management group hitting the panic button and doing something radically stupid with the roster.

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11-01-2013, 01:29 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parch View Post
Every game and every time I read/hear a quote from Eakins I become less and less impressed with the guy. I'm willing to give him a fair chance at letting him do it his way, but at this point in time I'd have to say the hiring was a mistake. If things don't change soon, something needs to be done.

He's not the only one in management that needs to be accountable. What I don't want to see is this management group hitting the panic button and doing something radically stupid with the roster.
or the players could finally be accountable and have to learn to play in all areas of the ice and give a constant effort. why does it always have to be the coach that gets fired?
after x number of coaches the players should know that the coach is staying and they'll be in the PB or leaving if they don't take becoming a complete player seriously.

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11-01-2013, 01:35 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Sloth Slothersons View Post
I like that he's arrogant.
A coach can be a hardass or player's coach without being arrogant. Arrogance is rarely respected, and often the cause of the coach losing the locker room.

Given how the team has responded so far, Eakins might have already lost the locker room, or more likely never had it.

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11-01-2013, 01:51 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Parch View Post
A coach can be a hardass or player's coach without being arrogant. Arrogance is rarely respected, and often the cause of the coach losing the locker room.

Given how the team has responded so far, Eakins might have already lost the locker room, or more likely never had it.
Would you say the same thing if the Oilers were, say, 5-7-1?

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11-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Would you say the same thing if the Oilers were, say, 5-7-1?
That's not a big difference from 3-9-2.

Either way it's too small of a sample to come to a conclusion and I do think Eakins deserves more time, but it's not exactly encouraging so far. If the Oilers had some tough losses where they put in a good effort I'd be more forgiving, but they've looked bad too often. I mean really bad. At some point something has to be done. 30 games? 40 games? Depends on if you think there's any chance of salvaging this season.

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11-01-2013, 02:19 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Heavy Dee View Post
clearly a kick in the nuts to previous head coaches as well as Steve Smith - cant see how that goes over well even if its true.

newsflash*** Hey Dallas, you are now the head coach and have been for 14 games. its time to stop blaming others -its squarely now on you. i also noticed you didnt comment on how your special teams went from top ten into the gutter under your watch - who do you blame for that? oh, right probably Acton, whom you hand picked, and who is notorious for having crap special teams wherever he has been.

you have a lot of growing up to do Dallas. This isnt a dumb fan base. people here are smart and know this team and the market. your eloquent press conferences will only go so far with this crowd, and they are wearing thin on many of us. you just delivered us our second worst start in franchise history - that speak volumes.
Great post.

Given that the coaches have access to video of every shift of every player, Eakins should be asked what he was doing all summer, when it was he discovered the players here didn't understand basic defensive responsibilities, and, why did he keep Buchberger and Smith around since they have been here throughout the coaching failures of the past.

Don't the prior coaches share any responsibility for this issue?

Eakins made a great show in the summer over how he was carefully evaluating his decisions on who the assistant coaches would be. What was he looking at?

He is the person who has the power to make the decisions as to who coaches this team, and who gets ice time. Rather than worrying about veggie trays and the interior decorations in the dressing room, perhaps he should have been getting his priorities straight and doing his job.


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11-01-2013, 02:30 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Dee View Post
clearly a kick in the nuts to previous head coaches as well as Steve Smith - cant see how that goes over well even if its true.

newsflash*** Hey Dallas, you are now the head coach and have been for 14 games. its time to stop blaming others -its squarely now on you. i also noticed you didnt comment on how your special teams went from top ten into the gutter under your watch - who do you blame for that? oh, right probably Acton, whom you hand picked, and who is notorious for having crap special teams wherever he has been.

you have a lot of growing up to do Dallas. This isnt a dumb fan base. people here are smart and know this team and the market. your eloquent press conferences will only go so far with this crowd, and they are wearing thin on many of us. you just delivered us our second worst start in franchise history - that speak volumes.
Agreed except for the bolded part.

This is a town that has a sizable fanbase that reveres Mactavish as a great coach on the strength that they think he's witty in media scrums

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11-01-2013, 03:18 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
or the players could finally be accountable and have to learn to play in all areas of the ice and give a constant effort. why does it always have to be the coach that gets fired?
after x number of coaches the players should know that the coach is staying and they'll be in the PB or leaving if they don't take becoming a complete player seriously.
How do you hold the players accountable? Hey I'm all for a coach that holds players accountable but I've yet to see an organization that uses the same level of accountability for all players.

We happily benched Yakupov earlier this year, as long as Taylor Hall, Eberle, and any other player gets press boxed as well if they do stupid things I'm fine. You know how well that would go over though.

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11-01-2013, 03:39 PM
  #169
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We have a top six that consists of 5 players who haven't been developed properly.

For example look at Arcobello, dude is not a goal scorer or an offensive threat but is a very well rounded player. He works hard, checks hard, finishes checks and has a high compete level. Perron is similar in that regard.

Then you have Taylor Hall. Made this team from day one and was expected to perform and win us games at 18.

Instead of putting together development plans, letting them spend a year or two in the minors or the ahl we threw them on the team and now that they are expected to carry their team the lack of proper development is showing. Offensive players shine in the minors because it is a lot easier to put up big points and keep possession. In the NHL you need to also be good without the puck and in your own zone, which our young guns are still trying to learn.

Imo I would of preferred if Hall, Yak and RNH spent a year or two developing in the minors to learn that defensive side. Our team didn't have any high quality vets to teach them that so here all they had was a losing attitude and having to learn on the fly

Tldr: Botched development is rearing it's ugly head

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11-01-2013, 03:40 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Parch View Post
A coach can be a hardass or player's coach without being arrogant. Arrogance is rarely respected, and often the cause of the coach losing the locker room.

Given how the team has responded so far, Eakins might have already lost the locker room, or more likely never had it.
Why do I not see all this arrogance that everyone is talking about?

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11-01-2013, 03:54 PM
  #171
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Agreed.

But still...it is mind boggling these players take SO LONG to figure out something SO OBVIOUS.

The idea that most of them are still where they were 2-3 years ago in terms of what they're willing to COMMIT to is shameful.
That's basically it. There is a lack of common sense, basics, fundamentals, beginner type stuff that is just... frightening.

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11-01-2013, 04:04 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by DeathbyCheerios View Post
We have a top six that consists of 5 players who haven't been developed properly.

For example look at Arcobello, dude is not a goal scorer or an offensive threat but is a very well rounded player. He works hard, checks hard, finishes checks and has a high compete level. Perron is similar in that regard.

Then you have Taylor Hall. Made this team from day one and was expected to perform and win us games at 18.

Instead of putting together development plans, letting them spend a year or two in the minors or the ahl we threw them on the team and now that they are expected to carry their team the lack of proper development is showing. Offensive players shine in the minors because it is a lot easier to put up big points and keep possession. In the NHL you need to also be good without the puck and in your own zone, which our young guns are still trying to learn.

Imo I would of preferred if Hall, Yak and RNH spent a year or two developing in the minors to learn that defensive side. Our team didn't have any high quality vets to teach them that so here all they had was a losing attitude and having to learn on the fly

Tldr: Botched development is rearing it's ugly head
None of Hall/Yak/RNH would have been eligible to play in the minors after they were drafted due to Junior/NHL agreements. They would have learned little playing in the Juniors as well, there is a reason why they are accused of playing a Junior-style games at the NHL level.

Nor do 1st overall picks get held up when it comes to joining the NHL either.

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11-01-2013, 04:06 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Heavy Dee View Post
clearly a kick in the nuts to previous head coaches as well as Steve Smith - cant see how that goes over well even if its true.

newsflash*** Hey Dallas, you are now the head coach and have been for 14 games. its time to stop blaming others -its squarely now on you. i also noticed you didnt comment on how your special teams went from top ten into the gutter under your watch - who do you blame for that? oh, right probably Acton, whom you hand picked, and who is notorious for having crap special teams wherever he has been.

you have a lot of growing up to do Dallas. This isnt a dumb fan base. people here are smart and know this team and the market. your eloquent press conferences will only go so far with this crowd, and they are wearing thin on many of us. you just delivered us our second worst start in franchise history - that speak volumes.
Thats what you want to see. You don't know it to be the case. What we do know is that last season the coaching staff, and specifically Krueger, were calling out the players attention to detail and stated unequivocally that these players seem interested in coachable moments ONLY after a string of losses. So the coaching staff are likely on board with Eakins latest comments, and likely agree. Its not Bucky or Steve Smiths fault if we have an entitled bunch of brats that figure putting up 50-60pts while playing terrible overall hockey is good enough.

As Everest has suggested the issue here has much more to do with the players being available to the notion of playing a sound overall game.

Plus that Eakins has been saying this stuff from the strart, really from about game 2 calling out that it appears the players do a lot things that wouldn't be coached, that they developed poor habits, ineffective habits.

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11-01-2013, 04:15 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Agreed.

But still...it is mind boggling these players take SO LONG to figure out something SO OBVIOUS.

The idea that most of them are still where they were 2-3 years ago in terms of what they're willing to COMMIT to is shameful.
People perhaps remember how livid I was with the play of Hall, RNH, and Eberle last year in OKC. Even at this lesser rung they were perfectly content picking their moments and padding pts against opposition they could overwhelm while struggling against solid system play and the few opponents AHL level that could throw a blanket over them, which some did, and with the result being that these guys were either ineffectual or disappeared in these games.
To me those were the games that mattered MOST. They were the games that afforded potential learning in how to combat system play. But which out top talents just tend to dismiss as bad luck and a tough day at the office.

Commitment is about rising to the occasion and having our topsix be able to compete with other clubs topsix. Given all out picks and talent kind of disappointing were not even close to holding our own in those matchups. We have instead forwards continually content to press forward, make poor reads, turnovers, and create outmanned situations on backend.

The degree to which this occurred against Toronto can't even be described as an attempt at playing NHL hockey.

That these blowhards felt arrogant enough to get continually overcommited and out of position against a club as scoring lethal as the leafs is frankly shocking.

No coach in the world is telling forwards to get caught 3 deep continually while the leafs rush the puck back our way for fun.

A stupid attempt at hockey by really stubborn *star* players.

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11-01-2013, 04:28 PM
  #175
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The problem is Dallas Eakin is the wrong coach for this team. You don't bring in a rookie coach and expect to win. The core group is all about skill and no toughness. Guys like Hall, Erberle, RNH, Yakupov are all offense first players. You have a guy like Eakins putting RNH and Erberle on penalty kill and say learn on the job. Kinda like putting an accountant in a biology science research job and expect him to do well without any research background. Lars Eller of the Canadiens said he is a rookie coach and we are playing a minor league system.

Many years ago Quebec/Colorado went through the same situation with too many talent on the team like Sakic, Forsberg, Sundin, Ricci, Nolan etc they had no goalie and no toughness. What did they do? They traded Mats Sundin for Wendel Clark who was later traded for Claude Lemieux who was an important player in Colorado's cup run. They then traded Nolan for Ozanlish who was a #1 defenseman. They the got Patrick Roy. Ray Bourque, added Rob Blake and the rest was history.

Fast forward to Edmonton now, its like trading Yakupov for Letang, Erberle for Perry. Still need a goalie and sign some vets. This team is too young and inexperience to win anything.

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