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10-31-13:Preds @ Yotes - "The if we only knew how to get more events in here edition"

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11-01-2013, 12:11 PM
  #301
101st_fan
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Originally Posted by SavageSteve View Post
That's great and all but this rocky stretch is so typical of every early Preds season in recent memory that I am just moving onto just wanting to see them not make the same mistakes in the next one. Should have been a win; but hopefully that point in the standings to the 'Yotes won't come back to haunt us down the stretch.

That said however, the inner 'Mike Keenan' in me says that I'd personally like to see Hellberg get in some quality time between the pipes soon (like Lindback had to) to create a nice goalie controversy that will hopefully motivate both of them till we know when or if Peks comes back this season. I've known too many people with internal infections like that requiring much longer treatment/rest that the rose garden the team is selling us. I'll believe Peks is back when he is BACK! Till then w/ that monster contract of Peks, IMO we have King Hut and Hellberg. At worst we have two goalies playing their way into not riding pine, at best we have a log-jam at goal we might have the luxury of having to 'trade' our way out of WHEN Peks comes back.

I have to see it this way or I will destroy an LCD TV trying to kill whoever is making bonehead plays in much of the same manner as I do with pinching heads in effigy of idiot drivers in front of me in rush hour on I-24 to the 'Boro. It's strangely therapeutic...
I expect Hellberg to get a couple of starts during this trip. It wouldn't surprise me to see him start against either LA on Saturday or Winnipeg next Friday. The person he needs to convince that he's ready for a start is Korn.

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11-01-2013, 12:26 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
I expect Hellberg to get a couple of starts during this trip. It wouldn't surprise me to see him start against either LA on Saturday or Winnipeg next Friday. The person he needs to convince that he's ready for a start is Korn.
Oh I'm thinking the same thing too; but really foresee Winter-Peg as Hellberg's first start.

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11-01-2013, 12:47 PM
  #303
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You want to put Hellberg into a situation where he has a chance to win on his 1st start and LA isn't it. You also don't want to screw Hutton's confidence by benching him. I will trust that Korn will make the right choice. I also wish Trotz would make the shootout choices instead of letting Korn to do it. Yes the goalies make a difference but you can overthink it just put the best shootout guys you got. Now Hendricks being injured played a part in it last night. Fisher is just not good in shootouts as I don't think he has scored once as a pred. While Leggy didn't score I still would have him before Bourque who hasn't scored a goal all year.

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11-01-2013, 12:58 PM
  #304
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Just saw the highlights.

1. All of our goals were hideous goals. When Goose, Hendricks, and Nystrom score, you know they weren't pretty.

2. That first goal for them was just really, really bad. Feel bad for Huts, and he made it up a little bit but stopping 4/5 in the shootout.

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11-01-2013, 01:35 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Just saw the highlights.

1. All of our goals were hideous goals. When Goose, Hendricks, and Nystrom score, you know they weren't pretty.

2. That first goal for them was just really, really bad. Feel bad for Huts, and he made it up a little bit but stopping 4/5 in the shootout.
The Hendricks goal was a cross body, ring the inside corner of the crossbar/pipe with something on it ... too bad our alleged scorers aren't putting shots like that on net regularly.

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11-01-2013, 01:41 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Just saw the highlights.

1. All of our goals were hideous goals. When Goose, Hendricks, and Nystrom score, you know they weren't pretty.

2. That first goal for them was just really, really bad. Feel bad for Huts, and he made it up a little bit but stopping 4/5 in the shootout.
The 1st & 4th goal he should've saved ... inexcusable that the team lost a 3 goal lead ... I'm done investing energy in this team if they're going to suck balls the rest of the season *time to recharge the batteries for next season*

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11-01-2013, 01:45 PM
  #307
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I'll give Phoenix credit...they have been very resilient all year, even against teams better than Nashville. Nice to see the Coyotes are primed to make an impact in the NHL this season.

As for the Preds, at leas tit was an upgrade from the last performance. I am still hoping to see Cullen and Stalberg get on the scoresheet some more.

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11-01-2013, 02:09 PM
  #308
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I'll give Phoenix credit...they have been very resilient all year, even against teams better than Nashville. Nice to see the Coyotes are primed to make an impact in the NHL this season.

As for the Preds, at leas tit was an upgrade from the last performance. I am still hoping to see Cullen and Stalberg get on the scoresheet some more.
How is blowing a 3 goal lead an upgrade from being blown out ... I believe this is a worse performance, but maybe I just don't like blowing 3 goal leads when we're supposedly a defense first team

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11-01-2013, 02:15 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
How is blowing a 3 goal lead an upgrade from being blown out ... I believe this is a worse performance, but maybe I just don't like blowing 3 goal leads when we're supposedly a defense first team
It's disappointing, to say the least, but better teams than us have given up bigger leads against the Yotes already this season. I will take that game over 6-1 drubbings at home any day of the week though.

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11-01-2013, 02:41 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by INDhockeyfan View Post
You also don't want to screw Hutton's confidence by benching him.
And if he goes out there and gives up five goals to Los Angeles, what will that do for his confidence? What will that do for the team's confidence?

Hutton has not proven himself to be an adequate steward for Rinne thus far. We have to start exploring other avenues and cut this off before it gets out of hand and we start losing ground in the playoff race.

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11-01-2013, 03:05 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
And if he goes out there and gives up five goals to Los Angeles, what will that do for his confidence? What will that do for the team's confidence?

Hutton has not proven himself to be an adequate steward for Rinne thus far. We have to start exploring other avenues and cut this off before it gets out of hand and we start losing ground in the playoff race.
Hellberg
Could be a Finley situation...

I doubt it we think hes better. The again that's what we thought of Finley....

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11-01-2013, 03:16 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post

Hutton has not proven himself to be an adequate steward for Rinne thus far. We have to start exploring other avenues and cut this off before it gets out of hand and we start losing ground in the playoff race.
A .912 sv% isn't "an adequate steward" for a .917 sv% ? 2-1-1 record replacing 4-4-1?

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11-01-2013, 03:29 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
A .912 sv% isn't "an adequate steward" for a .917 sv% ? 2-1-1 record replacing 4-4-1?
Hutton beat Winnipeg twice. You have to look at the competition. Would you rather have Rinne or Hutton in net? Looking at your stats they seem like even goalies when they are not.

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11-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #314
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Hutton beat Winnipeg twice. You have to look at the competition. Would you rather have Rinne or Hutton in net? Looking at your stats they seem like even goalies when they are not.
Peks beat Florida and the Islanders at home ... two teams that combined have fewer ROW than the Preds ... allowing three and two goals respectively. Peks gave up three goals in under ten minutes to the Blues ... Hutton gave up six goals in over ninety five minutes against them. We haven't seen the Pekka of 2-3 years ago in 2-3 years but that seems to be the player Hutton gets compared to, not the goalie he is actually backing up this season.

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11-01-2013, 03:56 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
How is blowing a 3 goal lead an upgrade from being blown out ... I believe this is a worse performance, but maybe I just don't like blowing 3 goal leads when we're supposedly a defense first team
Ummmm, how would not be better?
Reasons its better: 1. We got a 3 goal lead 2. We got a 4th goal in the 3rd to extend to 4-2. 3. We badly outshot them. 4. We got a point

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11-01-2013, 04:36 PM
  #316
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It never ceases to amaze me how when Rinne has a bad game ... say the opener at St Louis or Toronto ... the reaction is he needs to bounce back and play better. When Hutton has a bad game, we need to bench him and sign another player. The screams for benching Hendricks fill every thread no matter what he does in his role, yet there is nothing resembling that outcry over players who we expect much more from who aren't filling their role .... like Bourque, Forsberg, Wilson with no ES goals between the three of them .... luckily there are a few ES assists for them combined. Who the fan favorites and whipping boys are is quite obvious.

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11-01-2013, 05:21 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how when Rinne has a bad game ... say the opener at St Louis or Toronto ... the reaction is he needs to bounce back and play better. When Hutton has a bad game, we need to bench him and sign another player. The screams for benching Hendricks fill every thread no matter what he does in his role, yet there is nothing resembling that outcry over players who we expect much more from who aren't filling their role .... like Bourque, Forsberg, Wilson with no ES goals between the three of them .... luckily there are a few ES assists for them combined. Who the fan favorites and whipping boys are is quite obvious.
I think there's probably a great degree of forgiveness toward Rinne's stinkers, based on all of us seeing how often he is excellent. We saw the same double standard toward Mason last year. Hutton, unfortunately, doesn't have the body of experience to give him the benefit of the doubt. I have no idea what Rinne's stats looked like early in his career, but would be curious to know whether he ever had stretches of poor games early on.

While Hutton did have at least one poor goal last night, I don't know how anyone can continue to believe our defense is "solid," with only offense and goaltending being problems, after the last two games.

As for the skaters...as you well know, it boils down to players that are believed to be "offensive" players get tremendous leeway around here and should be played regardless of how poor their performance.

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11-01-2013, 05:46 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how when Rinne has a bad game ... say the opener at St Louis or Toronto ... the reaction is he needs to bounce back and play better. When Hutton has a bad game, we need to bench him and sign another player. The screams for benching Hendricks fill every thread no matter what he does in his role, yet there is nothing resembling that outcry over players who we expect much more from who aren't filling their role .... like Bourque, Forsberg, Wilson with no ES goals between the three of them .... luckily there are a few ES assists for them combined. Who the fan favorites and whipping boys are is quite obvious.
If Rinne gave up 5 goals one game and then 4 the next, we'd all be giving him **** too.

That first and last goal by Hutton are not goals NHL goalies should give up.

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11-01-2013, 05:51 PM
  #319
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If Rinne gave up 5 goals one game and then 4 the next, we'd all be giving him **** too.
History shows otherwise.

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11-01-2013, 05:52 PM
  #320
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It never ceases to amaze me how when Rinne has a bad game ... say the opener at St Louis or Toronto ... the reaction is he needs to bounce back and play better. When Hutton has a bad game, we need to bench him and sign another player.
You really don't understand why people have that reaction? Seriously? Pekka of the last couple of seasons has certainly not been the Pekka of legend, but even in those seasons he has strung together stretches of brilliance. Of course Pekka is going to get more leeway, its just silly to even try and compare the situations. The fan base has every right to be skeptical of Hutton. They were skeptical of him from the moment he was signed, and so far he really hasn't done anything to shake that. 4.78 and .824 over the last two laughers isn't going to instill confidence in even the most casual of fans. It's just not realistic to say Hutton has to bounce back and play better, when you don't have a large enough sample size to know if that's even possible.

I love Korn too, but not every goalie he touches turns to gold. It's very possible Poile made a mistake signing Hutton. It's also possible he could settle in after a dozen games or so and be the stud in goal this team desperately needs. but if you think people are overreacting now, let him have a couple more games like the last two...

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11-01-2013, 06:16 PM
  #321
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You really don't understand why people have that reaction? Seriously? Pekka of the last couple of seasons has certainly not been the Pekka of legend, but even in those seasons he has strung together stretches of brilliance. Of course Pekka is going to get more leeway, its just silly to even try and compare the situations. The fan base has every right to be skeptical of Hutton. They were skeptical of him from the moment he was signed, and so far he really hasn't done anything to shake that. 4.78 and .824 over the last two laughers isn't going to instill confidence in even the most casual of fans. It's just not realistic to say Hutton has to bounce back and play better, when you don't have a large enough sample size to know if that's even possible.

I love Korn too, but not every goalie he touches turns to gold. It's very possible Poile made a mistake signing Hutton. It's also possible he could settle in after a dozen games or so and be the stud in goal this team desperately needs. but if you think people are overreacting now, let him have a couple more games like the last two...
I understand the reaction but realize it is a double standard. We as a fanbase tend to overlook egregious acts by certain players (Weber and Rinne especially) while demanding blood for mistakes by others. We complain about the "wheel of justice" while showing even less intellectual consistency.

Rinne, when healthy and in his groove, can dominate a game. He also has a history of occasional softies and letting in a ton of goals in a hurry. At St Louis this year, 3 goals allowed, .500 sv%. At home against Toronto this year, 4 goals allowed, .846 sv%. He ended last season giving up 13 goals in his final three starts including to consecutive five goal games. We could look back to his first full season where he didn't make it through the first intermission in two of his first four starts that year ... deservedly pulled.

For all of the talk about how the Preds need to play defensively solid hockey, they are giving up more shots per minute with Hutton on ice than for Pekka. The penalty kill is scrambling and giving up too many goals no matter who is in net. We're making huge defensive gaffes and leaving players wide open with time and space at ES and SH leading to goals .... from Steen in game one to Morris last night. Line changes are an adventure again and factored directly in two of the goals last night. Bad penalties are killing the team.

But let's rant about Hutton. It's easier than admitting him letting in a softie is far from the only issue this team has.

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11-01-2013, 06:48 PM
  #322
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Other things we overlook while blaming only Hutton ... 43% at the dot last night. Seth Jones with four shifts of 90 seconds or longer including one where he and Weber got caught out for 3:24 because we couldn't get the puck out of our end of the ice. The team is getting owned in the second period this season, now a -8 in the second and -5 in the third. Five shootout rounds, Smith with the only good chance trying to tuck it past a sprawled Greiss. Cullen's shootout attempt was as disappointing as his +/- and FO%.

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11-01-2013, 06:57 PM
  #323
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Are we allowed to not feel comfortable yet with Hutton being the answer (for who knows how long)in net?

I'm honestly amazed that with how long you've been posting here, you still get this worked up over opinions that differ from yours. I know you won't like the fact I called it opinion rather than fact, but most of what I see you post is purely conjecture. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You are just intelligent enough to mask it with stats that can back up your argument, and that enough to make most on here not question you. The fanbase is upset with Hutton over a single softie? That's humorous. Inaccurate, but humorous.

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11-01-2013, 08:06 PM
  #324
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Are we allowed to not feel comfortable yet with Hutton being the answer (for who knows how long)in net?

I'm honestly amazed that with how long you've been posting here, you still get this worked up over opinions that differ from yours. I know you won't like the fact I called it opinion rather than fact, but most of what I see you post is purely conjecture. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You are just intelligent enough to mask it with stats that can back up your argument, and that enough to make most on here not question you. The fanbase is upset with Hutton over a single softie? That's humorous. Inaccurate, but humorous.
I never said what you can or cannot feel and just where did I say it was over a "single softie"? Hutton's soft goal was just one data point I mentioned.

I did comment on the double standard exhibited here based on the following, positive or negative, of a player. Statistically so far this season, Hutton and Rinne are comparable ... .912 vs .917 sv% ... more shots per minute allowed while Hutton was between the pipes than when Rinne is playing ... 2-1-1 (62.5% of possible points) for Hutton, 4-4-1 (50% of possible points) for Rinne ... tight enough at this point where one or two games for either player can have a significant impact . Eye test this season, Hutton has two bad appearances out of five (both since Rinne went down) while Rinne has one horrendous game (@STL) and a couple more bad games (TOR, FLA wasn't the greatest) out of nine starts.

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11-01-2013, 08:45 PM
  #325
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I dunno it just has the feel of last season to me so far. Seems the team is snakebit constantly. Rinne is healthy, but Josi gets cheapshotted and is out for an extended period of time. Josi gets healthy and Rinne is now out for AT LEAST a month. Injuries happen to every team, but it seems like with this team if they are not running full-strength there is no room for error whatsoever in order to win.

A Barry Trotz team that goes up 3-0 (I know rare) should not lose. And how about the shootout? I hear it called a skills competition all the time, and our guys have yet to score a single shootout goal. Skill indeed.

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