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Raphael Diaz

View Poll Results: What should we do with Raph Diaz?
Signed him long term (4+ years) 5 5.81%
Signed him short term (1-3 years) 39 45.35%
Let him leave at the end of this season 42 48.84%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:24 PM
  #26
Habs 1909
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I would sign him to a 1-2 year extension to give way to Beaulieu.

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:26 PM
  #27
Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Wait, what goods was Diaz "supposed to" bring that he hasn't? All he has been (and continues to be) is a 20 min/night, 0.5 PPG, positive +/- puck moving defenseman, who has blocked more shots on a per game average than any other defenseman wearing the CH (by a fair margin too, I believe). Obviously completely redundant because he's not also physically imposing, and no possible market for this guy...

He breaks up plenty of plays "despite" his size because of his positioning and stick/eye-hand coordination, and does a better job moving the puck safely than just about everyone on the current D squad. Giveaways (as "official" as they are) so far: Markov 18, Subban 9, Bouillon 8, Beaulieu 4 (in 5 games), Diaz 3. It should also be pointed out how important he and Gorges have actually been to ES scoring so far this season, providing 8 points at ES so far, while Subban+Markov, amazingly, have only provided 7 at ES.

But yeah, legit secondary scoring from another puck moving defenseman is something we should be planning to get rid of as soon as possible. Two on the right side is too many.
I agree completely 100%. I was going to write something else in favor of Diaz, but I guess I'll leave it. I just find it annoying he probably makes the least errors of all the D squad and yet gets the most hate just because he can't throw a hit, and yes, you need D-men who can win board battles, but you also need D-men who can break up rushes and move the puck, Diaz is very effective at that because of a strong active stick, good positioning and an above-average ability to read the play.

As for being in the way for Beaulieu and Tinordi, Murray and Boullion will probably go first before Diaz, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Gorges moved before Diaz as well after signing Emelin for 4.1. Gorges is a complementary top 4 D with no one to compliment at the moment. He is a great player to complete/support the second pairing, but he can't drive it.

That being said, while he isn't untradeable, I don't see the rush to move him. Tinordi and Beaulieu still don't appear 100% ready and neither Boullion, nor Murray are better than him right now.


Last edited by Andy: 11-01-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Old
11-01-2013, 12:35 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by sonnytheman View Post
Agreed, I don't understand the hate for him on this board. I'd definitely re-sign him, though not sure if I'd go longer than 3 years.
Oh, we've got too many interesting pieces up-and-coming on the RH side of the D to invest too heavily/extensively in Diaz. He's still able to contribute much more than most of them right now, though, so I'd keep him around for a couple of years. Three years would be pushing it, even for me.

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:36 PM
  #29
thaivuN
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Get rid of him, because we don't need a two-way defenseman that's can chip in 20-30 points a season while being really efficient defensively on his own zone.

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:38 PM
  #30
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10 years 55 millions

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:43 PM
  #31
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I agree completely 100%. I was going to write something else in favor of Diaz, but I guess I'll leave it. I just find it annoying he probably makes the least errors of all the D squad and yet gets the most hate just because he can't throw a hit, and yes, you need D-men who can win board battles, but you also need D-men who can break up rushes and move the puck, Diaz is very effective at that because of a strong active stick, good positioning and an above-average ability to read the play.

As for being in the way for Beaulieu and Tinordi, Murray and Boullion will probably go first before Diaz, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Gorges moved before Diaz as well after signing Emelin for 4.1. Gorges is a complementary top 4 D with no one to compliment at the moment. He is a great player to complete/support the second pairing, but he can't drive it.
You've struck on a good point right there. Emelin is now paid Gorges money to be a Gorges-like complimentary player to a "true" top-4 guy. With Gorges being the most disappointing "regular" defenseman in my eyes this year, and without the skill set to "drive" a top-4 pairing, he actually becomes the most redundant. Gorges' contract goes for 4 more years, too, and I expect he'll be a 3rd pairing guy on our squad long before that, so smart asset management might be to move him before we're forced to pay him $4 million to fill that role.

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:44 PM
  #32
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I'm not a fan, but he gets too much hate for nothing sometimes.

Didn't like him in the playoffs, but thats on the coaching staff for playing on top minutes on the pk, and top 4 minutes.

IMO he is an idea 5th d-men, can play some pp, some pk, and can hold his own in a top 4 if injuries occur.

But I have to say so far this year, he has been great, ppl don't want to hear it, but its the truth, our pk is top 10 with him getting a lot of minutes on it, he has held his own again, playing vs other teams top 2 lines with Gorges.

For me I'd keep one of Markov or Daiz depending on the price, but I could see both coming back, I remember Bergevin talking about the make out of defense that he likes, and I remember him saying that while he likes size upfront, the D for him has to skate and move the puck, he pointed to the Hawks having more guys that can move the puck than big big guys, so I wouldn't be surprised if went with something like it..not a big Dcore but one that can skate and move the puck.

Gorges Subban
Markov-Emelin
Tinorid/Beaulieu-Daiz
DD44

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:45 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Oh, we've got too many interesting pieces up-and-coming on the RH side of the D to invest too heavily/extensively in Diaz. He's still able to contribute much more than most of them right now, though, so I'd keep him around for a couple of years. Three years would be pushing it, even for me.
Personally, I'm not sold on any of the RD prospects that we have, though I'm hoping Pateryn can become a regular. But Diaz is a UFA, right? I think it'll be hard to sign him for less than 3 years.

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:56 PM
  #34
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Problem is boys is that he'll likely ask for more than we can spare and beauliu will make him redundant sooner than later

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Old
11-01-2013, 12:57 PM
  #35
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by sonnytheman View Post
Personally, I'm not sold on any of the RD prospects that we have, though I'm hoping Pateryn can become a regular. But Diaz is a UFA, right? I think it'll be hard to sign him for less than 3 years.
Funny enough, I'm least hopeful about Pateryn. Nygren is who I'm waiting for. Just because Diaz is UFA doesn't mean teams will be lining up to give him 4 year deals. I'd leverage a 3 year deal to stay in Montreal over a 4 year deal involving moving to a new city/team and fitting into a new depth chart any day. Not in all cases, mind you, but specifically in the case of Diaz. He's used a fair amount on a team doing fairly well, which I assume is a fairly ideal situation for a player.

I wouldn't "low ball" him, per se, but I wouldn't immediately throw enough money/term at him to keep him from thinking about testing UFA, either.

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:27 PM
  #36
Chris Cutter
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Diaz would probably get Zidlicky money on the market (2,75-3 million).

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:32 PM
  #37
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I assume Diaz will cost in the 3-3.5 mil range, in which case the only way he is staying is if A-Markov is not signed or B-Gorges is traded. I think both of those are unlikely.

Depending on where the team is around the deadline I could see him being moved.

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:33 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaivuN View Post
Get rid of him, because we don't need a two-way defenseman that's can chip in 20-30 points a season while being really efficient defensively on his own zone.
I will have to look harder at his play in our zone, because i think you are dead wrong on this one.

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:34 PM
  #39
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I see Diaz as another Streit (and no, not because they are both Swiss): A team will end up overpaying for him on the UFA market because he's an offensive defenseman and those guys are sought out by many franchises. He'll get 4M in a minor market playing on the first PP wave and getting plenty of ES minutes.

I would keep him for a year or two, but I wouldn't sign him long term (I would prefer giving his money to Markov) and in the end, Diaz won't pass up the opportunity to have one real good and lengthy contract in his career.

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:41 PM
  #40
Joe Cole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Wait, what goods was Diaz "supposed to" bring that he hasn't? All he has been (and continues to be) is a 20 min/night, 0.5 PPG, positive +/- puck moving defenseman, who has blocked more shots on a per game average than any other defenseman wearing the CH (by a fair margin too, I believe). Obviously completely redundant because he's not also physically imposing, and no possible market for this guy...

He breaks up plenty of plays "despite" his size because of his positioning and stick/eye-hand coordination, and does a better job moving the puck safely than just about everyone on the current D squad. Giveaways (as "official" as they are) so far: Markov 18, Subban 9, Bouillon 8, Beaulieu 4 (in 5 games), Diaz 3. It should also be pointed out how important he and Gorges have actually been to ES scoring so far this season, providing 8 points at ES so far, while Subban+Markov, amazingly, have only provided 7 at ES.

But yeah, legit secondary scoring from another puck moving defenseman is something we should be planning to get rid of as soon as possible. Two on the right side is too many.
I have no hate for him, but he is what he is, a place holder, and a GM deluding himself into thinking Diaz is a building block is a sure recipe for mediocrity.

He is supposed to be a secondary offensive threat. He is not. The second wave of the PP is just not a threat from the back end.

I think you are exaggerating how many plays he breaks up, and how he re-launches the attack. You will say the exact opposite of that. It's ok that we do not agree.

I think he did a decent job filling in on a very thin pro blueline, but it is time to look down the road. If there are better options, even ones that are projects, I say they should be priorities ahead of Diaz.

I will refrain from being as sarcastic about your opinion, even if you came out swinging. I just do not see him being effective when the pressure ramps up, and his offense does not have up for it.

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:42 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
You've struck on a good point right there. Emelin is now paid Gorges money to be a Gorges-like complimentary player to a "true" top-4 guy. With Gorges being the most disappointing "regular" defenseman in my eyes this year, and without the skill set to "drive" a top-4 pairing, he actually becomes the most redundant. Gorges' contract goes for 4 more years, too, and I expect he'll be a 3rd pairing guy on our squad long before that, so smart asset management might be to move him before we're forced to pay him $4 million to fill that role.
I agree 100%. Move Gorges and assorted moving parts to get a top 2 round draft pick and young talent.

Clear cap space and let Emelin take over Gorges spot.

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:43 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by thaivuN View Post
Get rid of him, because we don't need a two-way defenseman that's can chip in 20-30 points a season while being really efficient defensively on his own zone.
Wow, sounds like a good bargaining chip for a big 3rd line center

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:43 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
I see Diaz as another Streit (and no, not because they are both Swiss): A team will end up overpaying for him on the UFA market because he's an offensive defenseman and those guys are sought out by many franchises. He'll get 4M in a minor market playing on the first PP wave and getting plenty of ES minutes.

I would keep him for a year or two, but I wouldn't sign him long term (I would prefer giving his money to Markov) and in the end, Diaz won't pass up the opportunity to have one real good and lengthy contract in his career.
I don't see a comparison to Streit. Diaz is much better defensively, not quite as good on offense though. Streit's strength is on the PP, Diaz is solid PP, PK and 5 on 5.

There may or may not be 2.7-3 mil to keep him though.

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11-01-2013, 02:45 PM
  #44
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I'd trade him

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:46 PM
  #45
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
I have no hate for him, but he is what he is, a place holder, and a GM deluding himself into thinking Diaz is a building block is a sure recipe for mediocrity.

He is supposed to be a secondary offensive threat. He is not. The second wave of the PP is just not a threat from the back end.

I think you are exaggerating how many plays he breaks up, and how he re-launches the attack. You will say the exact opposite of that. It's ok that we do not agree.

I think he did a decent job filling in on a very thin pro blueline, but it is time to look down the road. If there are better options, even ones that are projects, I say they should be priorities ahead of Diaz.

I will refrain from being as sarcastic about your opinion, even if you came out swinging. I just do not see him being effective when the pressure ramps up, and his offense does not have up for it.

Depends how you categorize a "building block".

If a building block is a top line, top pair and #1 goalie...no he isn't one of those 6, but if it's top 3 centers, top 4 wingers and top 4 on defense plus #1 goalie...he fits into that. He's a mid lineup guys, not a top of lineup nor a bottom lineup.

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Old
11-01-2013, 02:47 PM
  #46
Blind Gardien
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Keep him if possible. No need to squander an asset on D if you don't have to. That said, I don't know how to manage keeping him. It's not a cap issue... per the roster I posted in the Emelin thread, we can easily afford to sign him at the same cap hit as Emelin.

I think he's a little bit better than Emelin, although I like Emelin more just for style and entertainment value. But I think Diaz would be in the right to be seeking the same deal as Emelin at least. I'm not keen on that salary and term for him. If I could get him at $10M/3yrs, I'd be all for that. If I had to go $16.4M/4yrs... well, the bar has basically been set and I guess I'd rather take another hit like that than squander the asset, now that the organization has set that standard.

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Old
11-01-2013, 03:04 PM
  #47
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
I have no hate for him, but he is what he is, a place holder, and a GM deluding himself into thinking Diaz is a building block is a sure recipe for mediocrity.

He is supposed to be a secondary offensive threat. He is not. The second wave of the PP is just not a threat from the back end.

I think you are exaggerating how many plays he breaks up, and how he re-launches the attack. You will say the exact opposite of that. It's ok that we do not agree.

I think he did a decent job filling in on a very thin pro blueline, but it is time to look down the road. If there are better options, even ones that are projects, I say they should be priorities ahead of Diaz.

I will refrain from being as sarcastic about your opinion, even if you came out swinging. I just do not see him being effective when the pressure ramps up, and his offense does not have up for it.
No one is calling him a "building block", and contracts in the 3 year, <$10 million range are hardly representative of such a tag, either. Don't think you can downplay the "secondary scoring" by focusing on the 2nd wave of the powerplay when our 2nd pairing is currently outscoring our 1st pairing at even strength. And you could be sarcastic, or refer to my "opinion", but all I've done is show you the measurable effect he has on breaking up plays and starting the transition. If it was down to opinion, I wouldn't have more numbers in my post than adjectives.

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Old
11-01-2013, 06:28 PM
  #48
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Keep Diaz. Beaulieu will never be a reliable defensemen.

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Old
11-01-2013, 07:25 PM
  #49
Ollie Williams
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Keep Diaz. Beaulieu will never be a reliable defensemen.
I always imagine Gainey saying this about McDonagh right before he ships him off to NY.

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03-08-2014, 02:23 PM
  #50
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Any new thoughts on Diaz? He played 6 games with Vancouver, 2 of them at forward, then he's traded to NYR and can't get into their lineup.

Good example of how we get attached to our players and overvalue them. Glad MB got an NHL player for this guy but it would not have been the end of the world if he just walked.

Team is getting stronger one player at a time.

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