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Homer's last 3 major moves.

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Old
11-01-2013, 01:58 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by moosehead81 View Post
And if I ran my business on the basis of rumour and innuendo, I'd have been broke and on the street long ago.
So you think they were traded because they were determined to be bad players?

The last two years they both had 61 & 62 pts and 66 pts, that's not awful by any lengths.

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11-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #52
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So you think they were traded because they were determined to be bad players?
They were traded because their return was sizable enough to fuel a quick rebuild while filling out the roster.

Everyone knew 2-3 of Hartnell, Carter, Briere, Carle/Coburn, Mez, or even Timonen needed to be shipped out to make things work for the season; there's a reason every theoretical roster made here involved several moves or were filled with crappy AHL players. They ended up going for max return in the end.

If the rumors factored into it, they sure look stupid for choosing Pronger/Lavi over Richards. Really, really stupid.

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11-01-2013, 02:05 PM
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BTW. I kind of had to chuckle...Carter showed up today in a walking boot.

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11-01-2013, 02:07 PM
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BTW. I kind of had to chuckle...Carter showed up today in a walking boot.
"Only chokers get injured."

--A disturbingly large segment of the Flyers fanbase.

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11-01-2013, 02:08 PM
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Hey, Flyers/Chicago play a game 7 if he doesn't miss the net.

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11-01-2013, 02:11 PM
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Hey, Flyers/Chicago play a game 7 if he doesn't miss the net.
IT WAS JUST LEIGHTON AND YOU KNOW IT


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11-01-2013, 02:16 PM
  #57
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IT WAS JUST LEIGHTON AND YOU KNOW IT

The flyers should've been given some sort of award to make it to Game 6 w/ that stiff.

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11-01-2013, 02:18 PM
  #58
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They were traded because their return was sizable enough to fuel a quick rebuild while filling out the roster.

Everyone knew 2-3 of Hartnell, Carter, Briere, Carle/Coburn, Mez, or even Timonen needed to be shipped out to make things work for the season; there's a reason every theoretical roster made here involved several moves or were filled with crappy AHL players. They ended up going for max return in the end.

If the rumors factored into it, they sure look stupid for choosing Pronger/Lavi over Richards. Really, really stupid.
That's the one thing that really pisses me off if all the rumors were true. Under what circumstances should an organization side with a coach and an aging defenseman over your two prime aged franchise forwards? Coaches, especially ones like Lavy, have short shelf lives when compared to players. Was sacrificing 10+ years of Carter and Richards ever going to be worth 3-5 years of Pronger/Lavy? I can understand trading them if they felt like they were never going to lead the team to a championship, but trading them because they didn't get along with coach was an incredibly idiotic decision, if true.

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11-01-2013, 02:20 PM
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Hey, Flyers/Chicago play a game 7 if he doesn't miss the net.
Admittedly annoying, but blown way out of proportion. He's not the first guy to miss a quality chance, and he certainly won't be the last. Craptastic goaltending is the much bigger reason why they lost in 6.

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11-01-2013, 02:24 PM
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Again with the Carter and Richards revisionism.

I've been following the Flyers since the mid 80's and never have I seen such a polarizing debate over 2 Flyers..not even with Propp and Poulin when they were traded. Those two were much better players and had way more character and integrity off the ice than Carter and Richards and yet the debate when those two were individually traded was that Clarke held on to them too long and even worse got diminished returns as a result which ultimately set up the team for 5 years of futility.

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11-01-2013, 02:26 PM
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Hey, Flyers/Chicago play a game 7 if he doesn't miss the net.
Niemi made a save.

If you're going to call Carter out, at least make sure you remember what happened.

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11-01-2013, 02:29 PM
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Again with the Carter and Richards revisionism.

I've been following the Flyers since the mid 80's and never have I seen such a polarizing debate over 2 Flyers..not even with Propp and Poulin when they were traded. Those two were much better players and had way more character and integrity off the ice than Carter and Richards and yet the debate when those two were individually traded was that Clarke held on to them too long and even worse got diminished returns as a result which ultimately set up the team for 5 years of futility.
Well yeah, considering they were traded within a calender year of a finals appearance. It's something that will be discussed for quite a while, even if it hurts your feelings.

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11-01-2013, 02:31 PM
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That's the one thing that really pisses me off if all the rumors were true. Under what circumstances should an organization side with a coach and an aging defenseman over your two prime aged franchise forwards? Coaches, especially ones like Lavy, have short shelf lives when compared to players. Was sacrificing 10+ years of Carter and Richards ever going to be worth 3-5 years of Pronger/Lavy? I can understand trading them if they felt like they were never going to lead the team to a championship, but trading them because they didn't get along with coach was an incredibly idiotic decision, if true.
The problem was that the flyers had a history of firing coaches to appease players so they made a line in the sand when it was reported that Richards and Lavi "didn't see eye to eye and that their relationship was a work in progress." Was it a smart move..maybe not considering Lavi is unemployed along with Bryz who was another line in the sand decision....

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11-01-2013, 02:36 PM
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Well yeah, considering they were traded within a calender year of a finals appearance. It's something that will be discussed for quite a while, even if it hurts your feelings.
Doesn't hurt my feelings at all..I'm glad they were moved. The reasons that continue to be debated are futile at this point though b/c of it's third rail nature which I still find to be peculiar considering some of the more storied players that have come through this organization like Propp and Poulin. [Mod]


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11-01-2013, 02:36 PM
  #65
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Hey, Flyers/Chicago play a game 7 if he doesn't miss the net.
You mean if Niemi doesn't make a great save.

Or if Leighton makes a save himself.

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11-01-2013, 02:40 PM
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The complete lack of drama or even rumors of drama in LA really doesn't do much to confirm over-the-top the media portrayal here.

On the other hand, you have Pronger, who had drama follow him his whole career, and not surprisingly, to Philly as well.

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11-01-2013, 02:43 PM
  #67
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The problem was that the flyers had a history of firing coaches to appease players so they made a line in the sand when it was reported that Richards and Lavi "didn't see eye to eye and that their relationship was a work in progress." Was it a smart move..maybe not considering Lavi is unemployed along with Bryz who was another line in the sand decision....
Who are all of these coaches that were fired to appease players? If anything, Flyers coaches have gotten a very long leash, at least for the last decade or so.

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Doesn't hurt my feelings at all..I'm glad they were moved. The reasons that continue to be debated are futile at this point though b/c of it's third rail nature which I still find to be peculiar considering some of the more storied players that have come through this organization like Propp and Poulin. [Mod]
Fair enough. The Richards/Carter trades are going to continue to be discussed around here because of the fall out ever since. Not only did they go on to win a cup the very next season, but the Flyers have been slowly trending down to the point that they're not even an average team right now. It's always going to sting a little when you look at it that way.

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11-01-2013, 02:44 PM
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Who are all of these coaches that were fired to appease players? If anything, Flyers coaches have gotten a very long leash, at least for the last decade or so.



Fair enough. The Richards/Carter trades are going to continue to be discussed around here because of the fall out ever since. Not only did they go on to win a cup the very next season, but the Flyers have been slowly trending down to the point that they're not even an average team right now. It's always going to sting a little when you look at it that way.
Barber and Hitchcock among others....those two were the most recent

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11-01-2013, 02:47 PM
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Barber and Hitchcock among others....those two were the most recent
Maybe I'm forgetting details (I was only a kid back then), but I'm pretty sure they were both fired because the teams were playing poorly for them. The Hitch firing was actually a blessing in disguise, as Richards and Carter would have never developed under his veteran dependent approach.

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11-01-2013, 02:52 PM
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Maybe I'm forgetting details (I was only a kid back then), but I'm pretty sure they were both fired because the teams were playing poorly for them. The Hitch firing was actually a blessing in disguise, as Richards and Carter would have never developed under his veteran dependent approach.
Barber was literally run out of town by Preems and co. when he couldn't adjust in the playoffs like Lavi and just told them to work harder....

Hitchcock totally lost the room and Richards would have been out of here much sooner if he stuck around..

You play bad when you don't believe in your coach's message any longer and that clearly happened with Barber and Hitch ..

Oh and Murray was run out of town for telling the truth (Flyers choking in the finals ).


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11-01-2013, 02:55 PM
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.

On the other hand, you have Pronger, who had drama follow him his whole career, and not surprisingly, to Philly as well.
You are purely speculating yourself and framing an argument that is no more convincing..

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11-01-2013, 03:09 PM
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You are purely speculating yourself and framing an argument that is no more convincing..
It's well known and accepted that Pronger has had drama pretty much everywhere except Anaheim. Multiple media sources have reported on that for years. Players have commented on it. Richards and Carter had drama while dealing with terrible media in Philly. They go elsewhere and somehow it all disappears. Pronger was consistently part of rumored drama. Richards and Carter haven't had that consistency.

I've never understood why Pronger, with his past, has gotten such a free pass. Meanwhile you've got people in Philly flat-out inventing rumors about the other two and spreading them as fact.

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11-01-2013, 03:19 PM
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It's well known and accepted that Pronger has had drama pretty much everywhere except Anaheim. Multiple media sources have reported on that for years. Players have commented on it. Richards and Carter had drama while dealing with terrible media in Philly. They go elsewhere and somehow it all disappears. Pronger was consistently part of rumored drama. Richards and Carter haven't had that consistency.

I've never understood why Pronger, with his past, has gotten such a free pass. Meanwhile you've got people in Philly flat-out inventing rumors about the other two and spreading them as fact.
His past included cup wins and appearances ..that's part of it I'm sure and a legit point. Nonethless, your innuendo is pure innuendo. You are suggesting the "problem" was Pronger...you don't know that.

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11-01-2013, 03:28 PM
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His past included cup wins and appearances ..that's part of it I'm sure and a legit point. Nonethless, your innuendo is pure innuendo. You are suggesting the "problem" was Pronger...you don't know that.
No, I don't. I don't claim I KNOW it was Pronger, either. I just find it odd that so many people will buy all the Richards/Carter rumors without considering Pronger's potential influence.

You know I personally try to steer clear of all that stuff and deal with what we know for sure.

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11-01-2013, 03:36 PM
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No, I don't. I don't claim I KNOW it was Pronger, either. I just find it odd that so many people will buy all the Richards/Carter rumors without considering Pronger's potential influence.

You know I personally try to steer clear of all that stuff and deal with what we know for sure.
You are engaging in innuendo....I find it odd as well. You can put it out there just as others I suppose when they speculate...that's all I'm pointing out

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