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November 1 and playoff seeding

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Old
10-22-2013, 04:44 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Kane One View Post
There's a new playoff format, so these stats are useless.
Teams that stink likely continue to stink goes beyond statistics or playoff formats.

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10-22-2013, 04:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Teams that stink likely continue to stink goes beyond statistics or playoff formats.
Sorry, I don't understand. You're saying that teams that stink are "likely" going to continue to stink, but it somehow goes beyond statistics?

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10-22-2013, 04:48 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Kane One View Post
There's a new playoff format, so these stats are useless.
It's not the format it's the 3 point games

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10-22-2013, 04:50 PM
  #29
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It's more than a little unusual though for a team to start off the season with 9 consecutive road games. That's really a special circumstance. When that is finally over the Rangers will have home ice for 41 of the next 73 games--not that they're always great at home.

Which isn't to say that I'm not worried about this team. So far the most glaring problem is the lack of compete when they get behind in a game. It's like they just give up way too easily. The second most glaring thing is the lack of real talent to create chances and finish. AV has not convinced me at all that he's the right coach for this team.


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Old
10-22-2013, 04:52 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Kane One View Post
Sorry, I don't understand. You're saying that teams that stink are "likely" going to continue to stink, but it somehow goes beyond statistics?
Yes, especially when framing it under an argument that a relative tweak to the playoff format will change it.

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10-23-2013, 04:06 AM
  #31
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The Rangers better start showing they are better than the other teams in their division. Jersey rolled over the Rangers and they haven't been able to beat any other teams. If Lundqvist is not close to 100%,they are in trouble. Nash is out for a while. Callahan will miss another 3 weeks. October 16-November 13. 11 more games.

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10-23-2013, 06:42 AM
  #32
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Not only is the playoff format different, but the schedule balance is wildly different. Not sure if it translates yet. It might, but we haven't gotten through a season to know it.

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10-23-2013, 06:44 AM
  #33
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They have a lot of home games the rest of the way. Best to take advantage of them.

And it's a matter of time before someone gets injured at least for 99% of NHL players. If Henrik is hurting then Talbot goes in but the Rangers have neglected that position over the years. I would not like to see the Rangers make another Mike Dunham like deal just because there's no other option to keep any chance of the postseason alive. It didn't work back then and it's not likely to work now and amongst other gifts to Nashville was that year's 1st round pick. Rangers need to hang on to this one.

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10-23-2013, 07:10 AM
  #34
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It is a different format. 16 teams in the east. Took away Atlanta-Winnipeg and Detroit was added. If you believe Columbus is an up and coming team,they are also in the east. The Rangers need to start winning some games because it won't matter which NHL playoff format is using.

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10-23-2013, 07:18 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
They have a lot of home games the rest of the way. Best to take advantage of them.

And it's a matter of time before someone gets injured at least for 99% of NHL players. If Henrik is hurting then Talbot goes in but the Rangers have neglected that position over the years. I would not like to see the Rangers make another Mike Dunham like deal just because there's no other option to keep any chance of the postseason alive. It didn't work back then and it's not likely to work now and amongst other gifts to Nashville was that year's 1st round pick. Rangers need to hang on to this one.
The Rangers didn't trade a #1 pick for Dunham

Rem Murray,Tomas Kloucek and Marek Zidlicky. Sather wouldn't give Zidlicky a one way contract.

The Rangers made that trade because Mike Richter's was essentially over. He never played again.

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10-23-2013, 08:08 AM
  #36
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If the Rangers snap out of it and the Metro Division is as bad as it sounds, the Rangers should feast off of this "weaker division" like how the Capitals used to off the Southeast Division. I'll accept that 37.5% chance with the risk of a lesser chance at the wildcard teams if the Metro is as weak as people want to make it seem.
I'm not sure I see the players snapping out of it anytime soon. If, by some chance, they happened to get their game on track, then they're going to face a very steep climb to get back into a playoff spot. Easy division or not.

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10-23-2013, 08:15 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
It is a different format. 16 teams in the east. Took away Atlanta-Winnipeg and Detroit was added. If you believe Columbus is an up and coming team,they are also in the east. The Rangers need to start winning some games because it won't matter which NHL playoff format is using.
Oh there's no doubt about that. Myself and others are just pointing out that trends from the old format won't necessarily translate.

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10-23-2013, 09:04 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers didn't trade a #1 pick for Dunham

Rem Murray,Tomas Kloucek and Marek Zidlicky. Sather wouldn't give Zidlicky a one way contract.

The Rangers made that trade because Mike Richter's was essentially over. He never played again.
Faulty memory on my part.

I don't think it was just that Richter's career was essentially over--they weren't sure but it looked as if he were done for that season anyway. It was a move made out of desperation more than anything.

In any case with Lundqvist not 100% and a condensed season due to the Olympics--the Rangers were figuring Biron for 20 games anyway. A big question is can Cam Talbot handle that? Can he handle more if Henrik's got an injury problem?

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10-23-2013, 09:18 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Faulty memory on my part.

I don't think it was just that Richter's career was essentially over--they weren't sure but it looked as if he were done for that season anyway. It was a move made out of desperation more than anything.

In any case with Lundqvist not 100% and a condensed season due to the Olympics--the Rangers were figuring Biron for 20 games anyway. A big question is can Cam Talbot handle that? Can he handle more if Henrik's got an injury problem?
If Hank gets hurt, the team is not going to be good. With the amount of money he makes, they can't afford to have a 1b. This is the way it is around the league.

I think Talbot will be fine for 20 games.

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10-23-2013, 09:22 AM
  #40
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Team would still be losing if Hank were playing lights out.

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10-25-2013, 04:56 AM
  #41
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The Rangers are 6 points behind the Caps for 3rd in the division. 8 points out the wild card. The Rangers have games in hand. They won't mean anything if they don't start winning.

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10-31-2013, 02:09 PM
  #42
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Even if the Rangers lose tonight, they'll be 3 points out of a playoff spot on November 1. Also, they're tied for 2nd in the division for ROW. Despite the Rangers awful start, there isn't much of a hill to climb to put themselves in a playoff position in the Metro Division.

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10-31-2013, 03:30 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Even if the Rangers lose tonight, they'll be 3 points out of a playoff spot on November 1. Also, they're tied for 2nd in the division for ROW. Despite the Rangers awful start, there isn't much of a hill to climb to put themselves in a playoff position in the Metro Division.
Yeah only one team has a winning record in the division and the Rangers have played at least one game fewer than all of the teams in front of them except Columbus. If the Rangers win tonight they're basically "tied" with everyone else in the division except Pittsburgh and Philly

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11-01-2013, 12:41 PM
  #44
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It's now November 1st. The Rangers are 1 point out of a playoff spot (also 1 point out of 2nd in the division). Turns out, the sky isn't falling, the Rangers aren't the worst team in hockey history, and despite everything that's happened overall:

1) 15,000 mile road-trip before stepping one toe onto home ice, even for a practice
2) New coach, new system, new players (Moore, Pouliot, the rookies, etc.)
3) The injuries (Callahan, Hagelin, Nash, Moore, Lundqvist)
4) Players not at expected levels (Stepan, Biron, Pyatt, almost all of the D)


This team is still right in the thick of the playoff race, while getting healthy, accustomed to the new system and coaches, at home, and some pleasant surprises (Zuke, Kreider, Pouliot lately). For all the complaining I've seen, especially about the depth of the Rangers, the depth players playing largely out of position due to the injuries haven't looked badly out of place (save Pyatt). That's depth that will show even more once the team is fully healthy. Can the large chunk of posters here finally admit that maybe this team is still the Cup competitor that they appeared to be pre-season? Or will this always be the worst team in history until they actually win the Cup?

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11-01-2013, 12:47 PM
  #45
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admit that maybe this team is still the Cup competitor that they appeared to be pre-season?
I'm sure someone is going to jump on this and say how terrible the team looked in the preseason, but I assume you mean during the summer, before training camp started, etc

At any rate, I'm not ready to call them a cup contender but I think they'll definitely prove to be a better team than their record indicates. I dont' really see another team in their division outside of Pittsburgh that is better than they are in any tangible way, especially once the team gets healthy.

But cup contender...we'll just have to wait and see how things look at the end of the season but right now they need some more offense

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11-01-2013, 01:10 PM
  #46
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I'm sure someone is going to jump on this and say how terrible the team looked in the preseason, but I assume you mean during the summer, before training camp started, etc

At any rate, I'm not ready to call them a cup contender but I think they'll definitely prove to be a better team than their record indicates. I dont' really see another team in their division outside of Pittsburgh that is better than they are in any tangible way, especially once the team gets healthy.

But cup contender...we'll just have to wait and see how things look at the end of the season but right now they need some more offense
My apologies, yes. I forgot that "pre-season" is dangerously close to "in the pre-season." My meaning was prior to the season starting, as you pointed out.

My main concern is how people can be skeptical about their "contending" status, while openly admitting that the only real threat in the division is Pittsburgh. With the way the playoffs shake out, assuming the Rangers end where they were expected to (2nd place), they wouldn't see Pitt until at least the 3rd round, right? That's 2 other teams to grind the Pens down or have a chance to knock them off. Things broke the Rangers way in 2011 and they failed to capitalize. This season, the path actually appears easier. To me, that makes them a contender for the Cup. I understand that given the tough start people may not want to throw them up there in that conversation again yet, but they are certainly looking more and more the part people thought they would play this year. If that continues, even the most die-hard detractors will have to admit the strong potential.

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11-01-2013, 02:26 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Dfence033 View Post
My apologies, yes. I forgot that "pre-season" is dangerously close to "in the pre-season." My meaning was prior to the season starting, as you pointed out.

My main concern is how people can be skeptical about their "contending" status, while openly admitting that the only real threat in the division is Pittsburgh. With the way the playoffs shake out, assuming the Rangers end where they were expected to (2nd place), they wouldn't see Pitt until at least the 3rd round, right? That's 2 other teams to grind the Pens down or have a chance to knock them off. Things broke the Rangers way in 2011 and they failed to capitalize. This season, the path actually appears easier. To me, that makes them a contender for the Cup. I understand that given the tough start people may not want to throw them up there in that conversation again yet, but they are certainly looking more and more the part people thought they would play this year. If that continues, even the most die-hard detractors will have to admit the strong potential.
They would see Pitt in the 2nd round. First two rounds are in division playoffs with the #2 facing the #3 and the #1 facing a wild card winner. Winner of each series plays each other in the 2nd round.

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11-01-2013, 02:33 PM
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And then they'd still have to beat the winner of the Atlantic division and then the winner of the Western Conference...it's a tough road and it's not so much about their chances to make the playoffs and win a playoff round, it's whether they have the pieces to go all the way.

Maybe when healthy and everyone is clicking they do, but we haven't managed to see that this season under the new coach yet.

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11-01-2013, 04:04 PM
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They would see Pitt in the 2nd round. First two rounds are in division playoffs with the #2 facing the #3 and the #1 facing a wild card winner. Winner of each series plays each other in the 2nd round.
I can honestly say I despise the new format. I didn't see much of anything wrong with the way it used to be, at least not that this system solves, with the added bonus of the extra BS like 16 v 14 teams, "reducing" travel by having Canada play Florida in the same division, Detroit and Columbus coming East, while Nashville stays West... This just seems to be entirely more trouble than it's worth right now.

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11-01-2013, 04:09 PM
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And then they'd still have to beat the winner of the Atlantic division and then the winner of the Western Conference...it's a tough road and it's not so much about their chances to make the playoffs and win a playoff round, it's whether they have the pieces to go all the way.

Maybe when healthy and everyone is clicking they do, but we haven't managed to see that this season under the new coach yet.
Let's assume that Fleury has another glorious post-season meltdown and the Penguins lose in the first round. Who stands in the way of the Rangers? No one in their division seems to be a big enough threat, Boston is probably their biggest threat outside of Pittsburgh, and it seems that would be round 3 matchup or never under the new system, Toronto is playing entirely unsustainable hockey right now (have you seen their shooting differentials??), Tampa doesn't have the goal-tending or defense... Even with the horrible start, for the East, it still looks to be (1) Pittsburgh, (2a) Boston, (2b) Rangers once things shake out. Other teams will hit their injuries at some point. Other teams will hit cold-streaks at some point. I still only view Pitt as the challenge in the East. The West is a different story, but it'd be nice to even see the Rangers playing for a Cup again (even if they lose), and I don't see the challengers in the East to stand against them, especially if Pitt gets an injury/Fleury happens/gets beaten by a Wild Card. If the Rangers finish as the #2, as most everyone predicted, they would play a mediocre #3 in the first round.

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