HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-01-2013, 05:52 PM
  #51
sheed36
Registered User
 
sheed36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
As i posted in the other thread, this is just so stupid. PK Subban is totally flamboyant.

flamboyant1
flamˈbɔɪənt/Submit
adjective
1.
(of a person or their behaviour) tending to attract attention because of their exuberance, confidence, and stylishness.


Please tell me this doesn't describe pk to the letter?
I don't see anyone arguing that Subban isn't flamboyant.. Everyone knows he is.. It's just that Wilde made it a point to say that while Subban and Price were doing the triple low five he's never heard anything about Price being flamboyant while doing it. All he heard was that Subban was the one who was being flamboyant and nothing about Price who was also doing it.. Why is that you think?

sheed36 is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 05:53 PM
  #52
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,802
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
And somewhat ironically, about the only reason it might not be on the horizon is that PK has such great character and is taking everything in stride.
Imagine if he got traded to Colorado for a bag of pucks and they win another 2 cups with him? My goodness, that would be close to the final straw.

Habsawce is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 05:54 PM
  #53
Native
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 370
vCash: 500
first off, i'm like subban, i don't play the white way. when it comes to talk of discrimination, i find it a very sensitive subject that hits home.

as for bergevin and therrien, imho, i don't see racism towards subban. subban is gonna make big bank on his next contract. the bridge contract is standard procedure. it wasn't invented for PK.

therrien is quite good with young players. let's not forget the beginning of last season. eller was in the doghouse. he was scratched. look at him now. eller is more than white, he's like an albino. was PK ever scratched by therrien?

PK is a norris trophy winner. that is a fact. does he get the credit that he deserves? no. will he? yes. but not now. as good as he is now, he will only get better. much better. that is a fact. he has some holes in his game, he knows it, therrien knows it, bergevin knows it etc. to me, its growing pains. PK has such a high ceiling, everyone knows that. its how do you get through to him, how do you realize all that potential?

Subban is such a unique, gifted and wonderful talent and person. he'll prove all his naysayers wrong.

Native is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 05:56 PM
  #54
Claimed Off Waivers
Registered User
 
Claimed Off Waivers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
And somewhat ironically, about the only reason it might not be on the horizon is that PK has such great character and is taking everything in stride.
PK's a very mentally tough man, but there is only so much disrespect a human can take. I'm fearing the worst right now.

Claimed Off Waivers is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 05:57 PM
  #55
Captain Saku
Registered User
 
Captain Saku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 10,625
vCash: 500
Only in Montreal journalists can also be psychologists.

Captain Saku is online now  
Old
11-01-2013, 05:57 PM
  #56
Tyson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 3,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
Here's another write up about Subban from today by Ted Bird.. Touchy subject and one I wish we didn't have to read about.

The elephant in the room: racism and PK

http://tedbirddroppings.blogspot.ca/...sm-and-pk.html
I hate to say it but I agree with what I just read. It is obvious, watching Mike Richards complain about Subban needing to show respect, same with Cherry. Don't forget the dislike that PJ Stock shows this kid.
Habs will probably screw this up and lose him in 2 years.
On another note, since when is PK not good defensively?

Tyson is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 05:57 PM
  #57
TheGoalJudge
Registered User
 
TheGoalJudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,993
vCash: 500
I'm sorry but these Subban threads should be locked. This board is doing its best to fuel these non-existent story lines.

We are constantly discussing things that are not being created by the Canadiens themselves. We are drawing conclusions from things the coach isn't saying about Subban. This is just beyond absurd. It's tabloid level gossip.

Now we're turning a made up issue into a race issue. It's a train headed off the tracks and it has nothing to do with PK or the Habs and everything to do with the fans and media. Disgusting and shameful.

I mean, we're really blowing up about racism and PK leaving in a couple years because the coach doesn't say enough nice things about him and because he didn't play 60 minutes last game? Is this for real?

TheGoalJudge is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:00 PM
  #58
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,802
vCash: 200
Is there any indication that Subban is goign to get his long term deal though? He's the only one that got bridge contracted by Bergevin whether the other players were past it not, everyone else he signed for paid market value at minimum, sometimes more, all the while proving less than Subban.

Emelin - 4 years 4.1 milion
Desharnais - 4 years 3.5 million
Price - 6 years 6.5 million
Pacioretty - 6 years 4.5 million (actually lower than value)
Briere - 4 million 2 years

and so on....

I have seen no indication, or comments from Bergevin that would make me believe he's going to open the wallet for PK. All i know is that he better damn open it up and give him 7-8 years because if he low balls him again Don Meehan is not going to very fun to negotiate with.

Habsawce is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:02 PM
  #59
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,988
vCash: 500
So pissed off to keep hearing how PK has to play the TEAM CONCEPT!!!!! When EVERYBODY makes mistakes, do they stopped playing the team concept? PK PLAYS the team concept has the concept is to win games. With PK, you will win more than you will lose. OF COURSE, show him to be more reserved in the last minutes of games and periods. But yo do not have to CHANGE him to do so. You have to tell him.....and he understands. But he might do it again...that's the price to pay when you've got such an exceptional talent.

Point is.....PK will still be in the league...and Habs will be at their 5th coach. So in the end, PK first, coach second. If coach isn't intelligent enough to understand that his game plan will work with a PK who will feel he has the confidence of the coach, well he's an idiot. If the coach thinks that Diaz or Bouillon are the ultimate defensive d-men that will always come through in the last minutes of game, he is also an idiot.

Clearly, the guy is freakin mixed up. He wants to go and shift 4 opponents, but will look to pass all the time. Wants to do a big check, but won't 'cause he might cost his team. So in the end, we love you PK for being everything you are.....but stop being everything you are.

Whitesnake is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:02 PM
  #60
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,802
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
I'm sorry but these Subban threads should be locked. This board is doing its best to fuel these non-existent story lines.

We are constantly discussing things that are not being created by the Canadiens themselves. We are drawing conclusions from things the coach isn't saying about Subban. This is just beyond absurd. It's tabloid level gossip.

Now we're turning a made up issue into a race issue. It's a train headed off the tracks and it has nothing to do with PK or the Habs and everything to do with the fans and media. Disgusting and shameful.

I mean, we're really blowing up about racism and PK leaving in a couple years because the coach doesn't say enough nice things about him and because he didn't play 60 minutes last game? Is this for real?
I disagree, in fact I feel like these threads are the only place in the hockey world where Subban is getting any kind of respect besides from his teammates. He should know that everyone in Montreal wants him in town forever and that we despise how he's being treated.

Habsawce is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:02 PM
  #61
Punkeater
Registered User
 
Punkeater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 549
vCash: 500
You know what I hate about all this? People here tends to think that Therrien being hard on Subban is bad. Subban is still young and can play at an higher level than he's playing right now. We all know it. He's still need some teaching and him being a special gifted player will always brings situation like this. People constantly questioning Therrien's methods on Subban only makes me wonder if it's because they have low self esteem. Subban is mentally strong enough to react well about this.

Being criticized is part of everyody's life. It's how you react to them that is important.

Punkeater is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:03 PM
  #62
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,802
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
So pissed off to keep hearing how PK has to play the TEAM CONCEPT!!!!! When EVERYBODY makes mistakes, do they stopped playing the team concept? PK PLAYS the team concept has the concept is to win games. With PK, you will win more than you will lose. OF COURSE, show him to be more reserved in the last minutes of games and periods. But yo do not have to CHANGE him to do so. You have to tell him.....and he understands. But he might do it again...that's the price to pay when you've got such an exceptional talent.

Point is.....PK will still be in the league...and Habs will be at their 5th coach. So in the end, PK first, coach second. If coach isn't intelligent enough to understand that his game plan will work with a PK who will feel he has the confidence of the coach, well he's an idiot. If the coach thinks that Diaz or Bouillon are the ultimate defensive d-men that will always come through in the last minutes of game, he is also an idiot.

Clearly, the guy is freakin mixed up. He wants to go and shift 4 opponents, but will look to pass all the time. Wants to do a big check, but won't 'cause he might cost his team. So in the end, we love you PK for being everything you are.....but stop being everything you are.
I agree so much. How many times have we heard cornerstone players that you build around, I've never once heard "cornerstone coach, you build around him", have you?

Habsawce is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:07 PM
  #63
Spearmint Rhino
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,319
vCash: 500
Maybe I'm naive but I don't think it's racism at all

It's undeniable prior to last year there was some baggage with PK - I could care less about the flamboyance and chirping and would much rather the triple-low-five to the copying of the Rags stick wave, it was the fights with teammates and reckless play that concerned me

MT came in and that's disappeared and PK won the Norris and playing great again this year, is that a coincidence?

1st 2 years he was used in all situations cause we had no options, now that we do MT can do what is best for Subban and the team and that's let him mature and develop, most d-men hit their prime late 20s

It's seems like Subban has been around forever but with the shortened season this is basically really only his 3rd year, is there really anything wrong with trying to give a kid like that the right development to reach his full potential?

You can see how the Habs are trying to develop the other kids like Galchenyuk, Gallagher & Eller for success, for a team that drafted great but developed like **** this is a good thing

As for the bridge deal it's basically a club policy, it wash't racism when Price was offered it with an All Star Game + All Rookie Team + Calder Cup MVP under his belt and it won't be racism when MB offers Subban a 6 or 8 year deal worth $6.5MM, it'll be the market value for a RFA (see Pieterangelo, Karlsson & Doughty) and keep him and Price the highest paid players

As for nobody pumping his tires, that's not what PK needs, yes he probably deserves more respect and I believe some of the silence from above is a bargaining tactic but I also don't see him getting ripped when he takes a dumb penalty late like he did earlier this year against Calgary so it goes both ways

Spearmint Rhino is online now  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:08 PM
  #64
sheed36
Registered User
 
sheed36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
I'm sorry but these Subban threads should be locked. This board is doing its best to fuel these non-existent story lines.

We are constantly discussing things that are not being created by the Canadiens themselves. We are drawing conclusions from things the coach isn't saying about Subban. This is just beyond absurd. It's tabloid level gossip.

Now we're turning a made up issue into a race issue. It's a train headed off the tracks and it has nothing to do with PK or the Habs and everything to do with the fans and media. Disgusting and shameful.
It wouldn't surprise me if the basis for some of these articles comes from reading forums like this one. I'll admit I'm guilty of speculating like many others do here and luckily in the end it's the farthest thing from the actual facts nearly every time. I suspect it will also be the case here but when you have many who disagree with some of the things going on this is the type of things that happens.

sheed36 is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:10 PM
  #65
TheGoalJudge
Registered User
 
TheGoalJudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
I disagree, in fact I feel like these threads are the only place in the hockey world where Subban is getting any kind of respect besides from his teammates. He should know that everyone in Montreal wants him in town forever and that we despise how he's being treated.
Do you realize that by trying to "give him respect", fans like you and the media are driving a wedge between himself and the organization by insinuating that the organization is not giving him respect?

TheGoalJudge is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:11 PM
  #66
HankyZetts
Twi2ted
 
HankyZetts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
I don't see anyone arguing that Subban isn't flamboyant.. Everyone knows he is.. It's just that Wilde made it a point to say that while Subban and Price were doing the triple low five he's never heard anything about Price being flamboyant while doing it. All he heard was that Subban was the one who was being flamboyant and nothing about Price who was also doing it.. Why is that you think?
Can you not figure that one out yourself? Step back from the conspiracy theory and look at the two players in question. Carey Price might be the absolute opposite of "flamboyant", PK Subban may be the epitome of "flamboyant".

I flip the question back to you now, why would anyone on this planet call Price flamboyant at all? And then, why wouldn't someone call PK flamboyant?

I mean look at the way they even do the triple low five! Id call pk flamboyant just for the manner in which he does the five! haha


As a fan, I loved the triple, but I totally understand why they don't want it. I've played sports for coaches who run things the tough love, no "I" in "team" kinda way, and you know what? We won championships. I've also played on mega talented teams with cupcake coaches, and although we'd dominate regular season, we'd find a way to lose big games. Sound familiar?

HankyZetts is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:12 PM
  #67
Punkeater
Registered User
 
Punkeater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
Do you realize that by trying to "give him respect", fans like you and the media are driving a wedge between himself and the organization by insinuating that the organization is not giving him respect?
Right on

Punkeater is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:13 PM
  #68
smcgreg
Registered User
 
smcgreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hockeytown??
Country: United States
Posts: 58
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The bottom line is PK is being singled out on a consistent basis.

If his name was Peter Smith, and he was white, and everything else was the same, he would not be getting treated this badly.
I dunno. I remember last year, Grapes showing video of the low fives and saying that he had actually told Subban early on to tone it down. That kind of stuff isn't appropriate in the NHL. Then he showed more recent video of the more toned down approach that Subban and Carey had implemented and of course he patted himself on the back for being responsible. Along those lines, when Yakupov scored his first goal and did a half ice slide on his knees, again, Grapes showed the clip and went on and on about how this is the NHL, not roller hockey, or something to that effect. The point is, the old school NHL guys don't like show boating and flamboyance (just look at Grapes), no matter what color your skin is. So, I don't think it's a racism thing. Hell, he won the Norris after all (yes, I know it's the writers who vote), so, it's not like he doesn't get any respect around the league.

The rest of it, how he's being treated by the local press and by MT is a separate matter, but I think the showboating is simply something that would be reigned in no matter what color he was because if it wasn't he'd end up being targeted by those who don't like show boating.

smcgreg is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:14 PM
  #69
Perrah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Is there any indication that Subban is goign to get his long term deal though? He's the only one that got bridge contracted by Bergevin whether the other players were past it not, everyone else he signed for paid market value at minimum, sometimes more, all the while proving less than Subban.

Emelin - 4 years 4.1 milion
Desharnais - 4 years 3.5 million
Price - 6 years 6.5 million
Pacioretty - 6 years 4.5 million (actually lower than value)
Briere - 4 million 2 years

and so on....

I have seen no indication, or comments from Bergevin that would make me believe he's going to open the wallet for PK. All i know is that he better damn open it up and give him 7-8 years because if he low balls him again Don Meehan is not going to very fun to negotiate with.
All of those guys with long term deals had signed a 2 year deal previously. Briere doesnt matter he is a bad signing. PK will get his money.

Perrah is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:16 PM
  #70
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,613
vCash: 500
For the record I don't think Bergevin and Therrien are motivated by racism, but Bergevin especially is far too sensitive to the media. With Therrien I just think he values predictability, and is trying to fit him into a box. Because he treats Eller the same way, and while Eller's weaknesses aren't as easily forgiven as Subban's as he's not quite at that same level, Eller is still one of the more important pieces going forward that we have.

The media is another story, racism is nothing new in sports media, and it worries me that Bergevin seems to go out of his way to appease them to make up for the previous administration.

Et le But is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:19 PM
  #71
Bourdon101
Registered User
 
Bourdon101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
I agree so much. How many times have we heard cornerstone players that you build around, I've never once heard "cornerstone coach, you build around him", have you?
The only thing I would build around Therrien is something to keep him away from this team.

Bourdon101 is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:35 PM
  #72
dutchy29
Registered User
 
dutchy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SIRISAACBROCKVILLE
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,627
vCash: 500
i'm not an expert on the character of Wilde, but if this organization doesn't handle Subban properly it will be a damn shame.
As for the Tremblay vs. Roy deal back in the day. There was more to it than just one game, or even just one coach, Roy was having issues with multiple people in the Montreal organization to have just took off during a game and demanding a trade. If it was just an instinctual reaction during the high emotions during one game that made Roy jump ship and in turn turn his back on millions of Montreal fans, then I wouldn't have wanted him to stay anyway

dutchy29 is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:37 PM
  #73
habsfanatics
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,373
vCash: 500
Roy was our guy, we missed the boat, unfortunately. Who wants a guy with a passion for winning. Instead we've got Therrien who thinks motivation comes through disrespect and yelling. It may work on kids, but seldom works on grown ass men.

Roy has shown in his short tenure that he understands the kids are what you win with.

Therrien is not coaching Subban, he's a full blown idiot.

habsfanatics is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:38 PM
  #74
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgy View Post
It has nothing to do with racism and while Subban is phenomenal talent, he has much room to grow before he can reach his full potential on and off the ice.

When the coaches crack down on White, no one cries foul. Same situation here, different reasons.

Young players need to be coached and disciplined or they become a liability on the team and that is what management is doing. He will become an exceptional leader on this team but only if he does what is needed for him to become that.

Having talent does not mean your entitled to do what you want, when you want it when you're part of a team. Leaders put the team first and lead by example, you can't become a leader if all you want is to do things your way.
I think we're all cool with that. PK has a big personality. Maybe a big ego (we don't really know what goes on in that dressing room) but not playing him in key situations (esp in the playoffs) is not 'coaching'... it's either a serious misunderstanding of talent or a reflection of stubborness that supercedes the success of the team.

Either way, the coach needs to smarten up here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Yes, the coach is as well as the GM.
So Tremblay was bigger than the team? Houle was bigger than the team?

WHAT?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The coach defines the team with his philosophy. The GM builds the team.

That is what they are paid to do. To be above the team in a position of authority. There is a huge disconnect when a player on a team assumes that role.
Dude....

NOBODY is bigger than the team.

Lafleurs Guy is online now  
Old
11-01-2013, 06:50 PM
  #75
loudi94
Master of my Domain
 
loudi94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,338
vCash: 50
If anything positive comes from this it is that it will pressure MT and MB to come forward and perhaps start to recognize that the public has noticed that PK isn't getting warm fuzzies from them and perhaps take that into account in the future.

loudi94 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.