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Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?

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11-01-2013, 06:53 PM
  #76
TheGoalJudge
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
If anything positive comes from this it is that it will pressure MT and MB to come forward and perhaps start to recognize that the public has noticed that PK isn't getting warm fuzzies from them and perhaps take that into account in the future.
How do you know what PK feels?

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11-01-2013, 06:55 PM
  #77
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Do you realize that by trying to "give him respect", fans like you and the media are driving a wedge between himself and the organization by insinuating that the organization is not giving him respect?
Exactly.

In all of my years as a Habs fan and the couple of years that I have been posting on this board, I have never heard of Ted Bird.

No one, to my recollection, has called upon the wisdom of Ted Bird to make a point about the Habs.

Yet here we are, on this thread, subjected to the musings of Ted Bird who is simply trying to throw some gasoline on a few glowing embers.

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11-01-2013, 06:56 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The bottom line is PK is being singled out on a consistent basis.

If his name was Peter Smith, and he was white, and everything else was the same, he would not be getting treated this badly.
He's a franchise defenceman and very flamboyant! Of course he's singled out! Of course he's under scrutiny!

I don't worry about him being resigned because the fans would lynch Therrien and Bergevin if they let him go. I do agree that he needs to tone down on a few things and become more of a role model and leader.

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11-01-2013, 06:58 PM
  #79
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This will all somehow be twisted into PK hating the coach ect ect, constantly whining about not getting icetime ect, without ever having listened to the words the man speaks.

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11-01-2013, 07:00 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The lack of respect towards Subban goes back to the bridge contract negotiation with the discourse of "Subban should learn to put the team first" and "we want to teach him to be a better man."
While that looks really bad in hindsight, since Subban went out and won a Norris, I don't think they were disrespecting Subban by not giving him the contract he wanted. I think at the time a lot of people (and I am referring to hockey fans in general) were divided on the issue. A lot of people still saw Subban as young and raw and just wanted to see a little more before inking him long term. While they were ultimately wrong, it has nothing to do with personally disrespecting the PK.

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11-01-2013, 07:01 PM
  #81
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How many of you feel that Francis Bouillon and Raphael Diaz should be defending a 1 goal game in the last 2 minutes instead of a rested Subban in a defensive zone face-off. This is my one and only issue with the way he is being coached.

I don't care that he doesn't get praised. I'm sure he can take a punch. But if you are telling me you are trying to make PK the best that he can be and not play him in these situations is ridiculous. Seth Jones in my opinion is being coached to succeed in the future, PK is not.

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11-01-2013, 07:01 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So Tremblay was bigger than the team? Houle was bigger than the team?

WHAT?????

Dude....

NOBODY is bigger than the team.
Yes. Tremblay and Houle were bigger than the team.

They were in positions of authority. However, just because someone is in control of things does not make them right.

See Gauthier. See Jacques Martin. See the two examples you stated.

I am agreeing with you to a certain extent about Therrien. Relax man.

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11-01-2013, 07:03 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
How do you know what PK feels?
Sorry. When I say warm fuzzies I mean public compliments.

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11-01-2013, 07:04 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
While that looks really bad in hindsight, since Subban went out and won a Norris, I don't think they were disrespecting Subban by not giving him the contract he wanted. I think at the time a lot of people (and I am referring to hockey fans in general) were divided on the issue. A lot of people still saw Subban as young and raw and just wanted to see a little more before inking him long term. While they were ultimately wrong, it has nothing to do with personally disrespecting the PK.
But again, they don't seem to need to see a little more with Desharnais or Emelin, say. Too many things together. It's obvious to me that management and coaching don't appreciate Subban to the extent that I do. I'm just a fan. But I can only have my own perspective. I think they're wrong. I hope they're not correct - that doesn't help us either. And I hope that it won't - yet fear that it will - hurt our team at some point, in some way.

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11-01-2013, 07:04 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Sorry. When I say warm fuzzies I mean public compliments.
So when Therrien says something nice about Subban this will all be over?

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11-01-2013, 07:05 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
So when Therrien says something nice about Subban this will all be over?
No, it will be over when Subban is given his due.

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11-01-2013, 07:07 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
No, it will be over when Subban is given his due.
Which is what exactly?

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11-01-2013, 07:07 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
But again, they don't seem to need to see a little more with Desharnais or Emelin, say.
I really don't get Desharnais. I don't think we had to hurry to extend him. But I think people are looking at the Emelin thing the wrong way here. For one, Emelin is a UFA. But more importantly, I think what people fail to consider is that maybe part of the reason you see Emelin being inked with a good deal is because they know they made a mistake with Subban.

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11-01-2013, 07:07 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Yes. Tremblay and Houle were bigger than the team.

They were in positions of authority. However, just because someone is in control of things does not make them right.

See Gauthier. See Jacques Martin. See the two examples you stated.

I am agreeing with you to a certain extent about Therrien. Relax man.
Coach is never bigger than the team... but that's semantics.

Bottom line is that you can't put it all on the player. You can't have an idiot coach and then ask what the player is doing wrong.

From what I see, Subban is not doing much wrong on the ice at all. But we don't play him in critical situations. So it's either MT doesn't think he's good enough or he's trying to send a message.

Sending a message is okay but not at the expense of the team. And if thinks that Subban's not good enough then our coach has even bigger problems.

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11-01-2013, 07:07 PM
  #90
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I never do this but I totally agree with Wilde on this one. I really think the media and the old boys club are having a horrible time accepting PK Subban as an elite player in the NHL.

I remember last year during a hot stove when the guys were just ripping on PK for perceived character issues and Elloitt Friedman spoke up and told them all that "that is enough".

PK is easily on of the top 5 most entertaining players to watch in the NHL. The notion that he is poor defensively is outdated. If you really watch PK (which I do, because I can't take my eyes off his play) he rarely loses any one on one battles (although he had a horrible game on Tuesday, first in a long time).

He is a special talent and if he is left off the Olympic team, I am going to have a very hard time talking myself into any other reason than racism. He should be a lock, he should be the trigger man on the power play and he should find himself getting a regular shift in all situations. I do not remember any defenseman being dominant in so many different situations. His combination of speed, shot, physicality, hockey IQ and determination are off the charts.

It is time for media, referees and fans to just lay the hell off and enjoy watching a generational talent. I fear that Montreal may drive a first ballot hall of famer (I really believe he has this potential) out of town again simply because they don't know how to have nice things.

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11-01-2013, 07:08 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
So when Therrien says something nice about Subban this will all be over?
It should help put an end to the public perceptions. Perception is reality. If enough people are looking at management sideways because of perception then the team must address it.

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11-01-2013, 07:09 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
It should help put an end to the public perceptions. Perception is reality. If enough people are looking at management sideways because of perception then the team must address it.
That's a load of bull. Since fans are delusional, management has to address something that doesn't exist?

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11-01-2013, 07:10 PM
  #93
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PK is a generational talent. If we lose him because of some BS underlying racism, or because someone in management is too dumb not to see the writing on the wall, it will be a tragedy. So frustrating to see incompetence in a team this city cherishes.

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Old
11-01-2013, 07:15 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
That's a load of bull. Since fans are delusional, management has to address something that doesn't exist?
OK now you're confusing me. Are we talking about the same team that must have a French speaking coach? Same team that has had a "darkest day"? Yes. If there is the slightest hint that PK is being treated unfairly based on colour, then the team must nip it right away.

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11-01-2013, 07:19 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
OK now you're confusing me. Are we talking about the same team that must have a French speaking coach? Same team that has had a "darkest day"? Yes. If there is the slightest hint that PK is being treated unfairly based on colour, then the team must nip it right away.
You honestly believe PK is being mistreated? And next, you believe he's being mistreated because he's black?

This stuff is allowed to get posted around here?

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11-01-2013, 07:24 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
That's a load of bull. Since fans are delusional, management has to address something that doesn't exist?
The meaning of this post is somewhat ambiguous but I'll address what I think you meant by it.

Mgmt (MT in particular) have gone out of their way to downplay this guy (not a delusional statement.) Maybe its them trying to tone down a cocky younger player but it's gone a little too far. They should have his back more in the press than they do.

The racism stuff... that's a whole different story and I'm not going there.

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11-01-2013, 07:24 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
You honestly believe PK is being mistreated? And next, you believe he's being mistreated because he's black?

This stuff is allowed to get posted around here?
I believe he is being misused on the ice. I'm not sure why. There are articles being published speculating. Serious speculations. The team does need to address them.

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11-01-2013, 07:28 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Subban is the one player, the only player, the singular player, that Bergevin has singled out to not get a good contract. Every single other player has been paid respectfully. Every single other player has been paid respectfully and even overpaid. It's disgusting.
Eller and Diaz got pretty low/unimpressive contracts.
Max Pacioretty is a pretty good deal as well. Dunno how many times this needs to be brought up. And don't give me "Max took a pay cut". Circular argument.

As for the other issues in this thread: Habs management didn't ask Subban to stop with the low-five stuff, they asked the guys, both of them, to stop it. If you wanna read it as Subban being targeted by this, you're just extrapolating to make a point.

This article is over-the-top dramatic and unnecessary.

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11-01-2013, 07:31 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
I believe he is being misused on the ice. I'm not sure why. There are articles being published speculating. Serious speculations. The team does need to address them.
The team doesn't need to address anything unless it actually exists. This is why we can't have nice things in Montreal because suddenly, you're telling me, Marc Bergevin has to basically go on record and say he's in fact, not a racist.

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11-01-2013, 07:34 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
I believe he is being misused on the ice. I'm not sure why. There are articles being published speculating. Serious speculations. The team does need to address them.
What makes a speculation serious? The evidence supporting it or the seriousness of the allegation. Bergevin doesn't need to address every baseless speculation out there.

I really don't think the Habs brass are out to stick it to Subban.

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