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Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?

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11-01-2013, 08:19 PM
  #126
TheGoalJudge
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Don't ask me to find logic out of an illogical situation.

And no, it's not just not playing for the last 2 minutes. It's putting him on the bench while placing one of the slowest player in the game, a #7 D instead of him. It's about having guys like Diaz or Bouillon in front of him on the PK. It's about singling him out and criticizing him in the media while others are far worse. It about how he reacts to a simple answer from PK. It's a multitude of things. But if you're going to look at all of this, shrugg your shoulders and say ''he's mistreated because he ain't playing the last 2 minutes?'' then I'll know that I'm wasting my time here..
Subban plays more minutes than Chara.

Claude Julien is racist towards Slovakians.

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11-01-2013, 08:21 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
Correct. And that is a good reason to be proactive about it. The burden of proof is much lower given the context (of being the only black player on the team). Wilde's evidence is speculative, and none of it by itself is conclusive, but taken together, there's something there, something worth addressing before it snowballs, if the goal is keeping PK (and not just doing the right thing in some ethical sense).

The fact Wilde and Bird are raising the questions at all is indicative of something. I don't think it's something you throw out there lightly.
That's exactly the point that some are missing. Molson being the owner of a business worth hundreds of millions does not want something like this to snowball. The last thing he should want is someone in a media scrum to ask the following: "PK, there's been some articles written recently alleging that perhaps you're being singled out by management because of the colour of you skin. Would you care to comment?" That's not fair to PK. Especially if he doesn't dismiss it as anything but ludicrous.

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11-01-2013, 08:21 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
He is not oblivious to racism. No one is denying racism exists. They are just not calling every given case an example of it.
Nobody is calling every given case an example of it.

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11-01-2013, 08:21 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
you call yourself a mod when you have no clue what bergervin and therrien are talking about. character means "the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual." To simplify this, it means you have to have respect for the game and for the players must take responsibility for their actions. Bergervin and Therrien is telling Subban to stay quiet, this is hockey. I remember early in his career Subban and Lapierre was mouthing off and that's not the Montreal Canadiens. Ribeiro did his fake injury crap and that's not the Montreal Canadiens. You win as a team and not as individual, Subban was playing as an individual and running around not playing defensive game. Therrien has slowly fixed that and now Subban is a Norris Winner.
You're out to lunch, Jacques Martin did more for Subban's defensive game in a week.

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11-01-2013, 08:22 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
Subban plays more minutes than Chara.

Claude Julien is racist towards Slovakians.
Chara is also 36

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11-01-2013, 08:22 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
Subban plays more minutes than Chara.

Claude Julien is racist towards Slovakians.
And you are calling habs fans "dumb" ?

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11-01-2013, 08:24 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Nobody is calling every given case an example of it.
OK, so what makes this undeniably a case of racism?

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11-01-2013, 08:24 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
Subban plays more minutes than Chara.

Claude Julien is racist towards Slovakians.
Chara will be 37 by season's end and I don't hear Julien criticize the big man if Marchand gets caught covering for him or put his 7th Dman instead of him at the end of the game or on the PK.

But sure, your post totally made sense.

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11-01-2013, 08:24 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by CaptainIginla View Post
And you are calling habs fans "dumb" ?
Yes. And also, Julien is a racist because Chara isn't in the top 20 in TOI for NHL defencemen.

Isn't that why we're calling Therrien a racist?

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11-01-2013, 08:26 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
People on this board are calling our management racist and this thread remains open.

LOL.
I think your reading comprehension is poor. I haven't seen a single poster suggest that MB or MT are racists, but perception doe become reality. Other coaches, players, grapes, fans from other teas ect, ect have an unhealthy hate for him, much of it is because he's a star on the habs, but not all of it.

With our management, it's mostly incompetence, not racism, to think that it's not possible for people to dislike him simply because he's black, is being naive. There are many.

Our coach, just sucks, I don't think he's racist, but he's terrible.

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11-01-2013, 08:27 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Chara will be 37 by season's end and I don't hear Julien criticize the big man if Marchand gets caught covering for him or put his 7th Dman instead of him at the end of the game or on the PK..
You don't hear a lot of things. You don't know how much Julien criticizes Chara. You don't know how much Therrien criticizes Subban. You don't know anything about their own private interactions. You don't know why Therrien criticizes Subban when he does. In the absence of evidence for any reason, assuming racism is irresponsible.

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11-01-2013, 08:27 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I think your reading comprehension is poor. I haven't seen a single poster suggest that MB or MT are racists, but perception doe become reality. Other coaches, players, grapes, fans from other teas ect, ect have an unhealthy hate for him, much of it is because he's a star on the habs, but not all of it.

With our management, it's mostly incompetence, not racism, to think that it's not possible for people to dislike him simply because he's black, is being naive. There are many.

Our coach, just sucks, I don't think he's racist, but he's terrible.
Wow, no one in this thread makes any sense.

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11-01-2013, 08:28 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You look at the elephant in the eye and then cast your opinion.

In reality, you do not know what Therrien believes about Subban.

It is an assumption on your part.

Which is worse? A racist? Or a person who blames racism on a person who has not been proven to be a racist?
I don't think you understand the nuances of racism. I don't think many people do. To many, racism has to be blatant and in your face. I'm not going to say Bergy and Therrien are racist. Frankly, I don't know. But there is a lot of stuff that goes on in the league about PK that I believe is rooted in some form of racism. This isn't the place for this discussion though. I do think PK gets some unreal negative treatment though and hearing stuff like he has an NBA/NFL type personality makes my ears perk up.

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11-01-2013, 08:29 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
OK, so what makes this undeniably a case of racism?
Did anybody say undeniable?

I dunno, I think I said probable, on the case that Subban has been getting singularly bad treatment for years. It's not any specific case of bad treatment, it's the cumulative total. Last year when there was the contract dispute, some fans were comparing him to Michael Del Zotto, and RDS listed him as the 6th best dman on the team... all of that is just absurd. It would never happen if his name was Peter Smith.

Has there ever been any doubt a reigning Norris winner making the olympic team of his country?

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11-01-2013, 08:29 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
People on this board are calling our management racist and this thread remains open.

LOL.
Why don't you just ignore the thread if you don't like it? No one is forcing you to post in it.

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11-01-2013, 08:30 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
In the absence of evidence for any reason, assuming racism is irresponsible.
Perhaps it is, yet it's out there. An ounce of prevention in this case would go a long way if I'm Geoff Molson

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11-01-2013, 08:30 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Why don't you just ignore the thread if you don't like it? No one is forcing you to post in it.
How about we stop insinuating our management is racist?

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11-01-2013, 08:30 PM
  #143
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11-01-2013, 08:32 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Did anybody say undeniable?

I dunno, I said probable, on the case that Subban has been getting singularly bad treatment for years. .
That's the thing though. I don't think he has really been treated all that badly by the Habs brass at all. The bridge contract looks stupid now. I bet you Bergevin wishes he had taken the longer term deal now, too. But I don't think race was a factor in that decision. More youth, and the principal of making such a deal with a raw young player.

But even if you think management has mistreated him, that still does not make racism probable.

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11-01-2013, 08:33 PM
  #145
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If PK wants more ice time he can always ask for a trade. If it's a battle between management and PK I doubt it's a battle PK can win.

I find it ironic that when Bergevin was sticking it to PK last year most of the posters here were all for it but now it's terrible how they're treating PK.

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11-01-2013, 08:33 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
How about we stop insinuating our management is racist?
How about you read a book, it might help you with comprehension, you say no one else makes sense, perhaps you're the problem.

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11-01-2013, 08:38 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
So, anytime someone raises speculative questions, they should be addressed. If the Habs had to deal this way with the media, they would have no time to do anything else?
I don't think there should be rule regarding when speculative questions are addressed. The Habs have plenty of time for the media and are required to provide access. They're reason for being is for fans.

I'm not following the Subban narrative closely, but everything Wilde said resonated. Same with Bird.

Quote:
And how does the fact that they raise the question make it indicative of something?
It's indicative of a reporter who has close access to the team and who has a relationship with Subban feeling the need to present this story at this time. Same with Bird.

If there was inkling of a chance that race was a factor, and I was Bergevin, I would take it seriously. What is true is that there is nothing concrete to address, other than recent remarks that PK isn't good enough to make Team Canada, so I would address that, make a statement of praise, go to bat for your guy.

It's a touchy issue, so I understand the reluctance to give it credibility unless there's a smoking gun.

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11-01-2013, 08:40 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
How about you read a book, it might help you with comprehension, you say no one else makes sense, perhaps you're the problem.
This is just too good. The friggin article in the OP is saying Subban is being treated differently by management because he's black. And people in this thread are agreeing with the writer.

What does that mean? durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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11-01-2013, 08:41 PM
  #149
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Are MB and MT racists ?... I strongly doubt that.

Are they playing with PK's head ?... It could look like it from the outside.

But PK has still all the minutes he needs to produce and he doesn't anymore.

It's puzzling, but it could only be a slight injury after all.

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11-01-2013, 08:41 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
How about we stop insinuating our management is racist?
Who said they're racist?

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