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What did people think of Christian Dube when he was 16?

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10-24-2013, 11:38 PM
  #1
Sticks and Pucks
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What did people think of Christian Dube when he was 16?

PPG player in the QMJHL as a 16-year-old. Good size. Why did he eventually fall into the second round?

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10-25-2013, 01:50 AM
  #2
JetsAlternate
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When he was drafted, Christian Dube was actually measured at 5'11'', 170 lbs.
Quote:
Briefly: [FINAL Edition 1]
The Ottawa Citizen [Ottawa, Ont] 20 Sep 1995: C.3.

...

NEW YORK -- The New York Rangers have returned top draft pick Christian Dube to his Canadian junior team, the Sherbrooke Faucons of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League. Dube, a 5-foot-11, 170-pound center, was Sherbrooke's second-leading scorer during the 1994-95 season with 36 goals and 65 assists. The second-round selection didn't appear in the Rangers pre-season opener against the New Jersey Devils on Monday night. He was among 17 players that didn't make the team roster.
He was named the CHL Rookie of the Month for his performance in February 1994:
Quote:
MAJOR JUNIOR: Rivers CHL player of month: [Final Edition]
The Ottawa Citizen [Ottawa, Ont] 09 Mar 1994: F3.

...

Christian Dube of the Sherbrooke Faucons, who had seven goals and eight assists in 10 games in February, was named rookie of the month.

The 16-year-old Quebec City native currently is second in club scoring with 30 goals and 39 assists in 67 games for the Faucons, second in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League's Frank Dilio Division.
In these two articles, he is mentioned last on the list of notable camp invitees to the Canadian World Junior team, both for the 1995 team and the 1996 team. Read what you will into that:
Quote:
Rusedski in form on grass: [FINAL Edition]
The Gazette [Montreal, Que] 16 June 1994: F2.

...

Six players from Quebec are among the 20 players named to Canada's Under-18 hockey team that will compete at the Copa Mexico tournament, which runs from Aug. 2-7 in Mexico City.

Quebec players on the team are goalie Jean-Sebastien Giguere of Blainville, defencemen Jason Doig of Dollard des Ormeaux and Louis- Philippe Sevigny of Trois Rivieres and forwards Daniel Briere of Gatineau, Xavier Delisle of Sillery and Christian Dube of Sherbrooke.
Quote:
10 Quebecers invited to junior camp: [FINAL Edition]
The Gazette [Montreal, Que] 20 June 1995: B.7.

The associations announced the 42-player roster for the team's evaluation camp in Montreal from August 12 to 18. There are 10 Quebec players in the group. The world junior championships are in Boston from Dec. 26 to Jan. 4, 1996.

...

The list, including eight first-round picks from the 1994 NHL entry draft, is made up of 10 players from the QMJHL, 13 from the OHL, 18 from the WHL and one from the Central Collegiate Hockey Association in the United States.

There are eight returning players from the 1995 world championship team, including goalie Dan Cloutier; defencemen Chad Allan, Ed Jovanovski (1st pick 1994, Florida), Nolan Baumgartner (10th, Washington), and Wade Redden; and forwards Jeff O'Neill (5th, Hartford), Ryan Smyth (6th, Edmonton) and Jason Botterill.

The Quebec players include three from the Beauport Harfangs, Martin Biron, Christian Laflamme and Jean-Yves Leroux. Baniel Briere and Denis Gauthier of Drummonville, Daniel Goneau of Granby, Jose Theodore of Hull, Jason Doig of College Francais, and Mathieu Dandenault and Christian Dube of Sherbrooke also received invitations.
In the December 1994 NHL Central Scouting Bureau ranking, Dube was ranked third on their list of top QMJHL skater prospects:
Quote:
NHL Central Scouting Bureau rankings: [SA2 Edition]
Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 17 Dec 1994: D2.

QMJHL

Skaters: 1. Jason Doig (Laval); 2. Christian Laflamme (Beauport); 3. Christian Dube (Sherbrooke); 4. Donald MacLean (Beauport); 5. Marc Chouinard (Beauport); 6. Denis Gauthier Jr. (Drummondville); 7. Philippe Audet (Granby); 8. Georges Laraque (St-Jean); 9. Radoslav Suchy (Sherbrooke); 10. Mathieu Sunderland (Drummondville)

...

Goaltenders: 1. Martin Biron (Beauport); 2. Jean-Sebastien Giguere (Halifax); 3. Sebastien Charpientier (Laval); 4. Jean- Sebastien Aubin (Sherbrooke); 5. David Arsenault (St-Hyacinthe).

...

Skaters: 1. Bryan Berard (Detroit); 2. Chad Kilger (Kingston); 3. Jeff Ware (Oshawa); 4. Brian Wesenberg (Guelph); 5. Mike Martin (Windsor); 6. Sean Brown (Belleville); 7. Jeff Ambrosio (Belleville); 8. Chris VanDyk (Windsor); 9. Kevin Bolibruck (Peterborough); 10. Dwayne Hay (Guelph)

...

Goaltenders: 1. Scott Roche (North Bay); 2. Zac Bierk (Peterborough); 3. Kory Cooper (Belleville); 4. Ryan Penney (Niagara Falls); 5. David Belitski (Kitchener).

...

WHL

Skaters: 1. Wade Redden (Brandon); 2. Brad Church (Prince Albert); 3. Steve Kelly (Prince Albert); 4. Daymond Langkow (Tri City); 5. Terry Ryan (Tri-City); 6. Shane Doan (Kamloops); 7. Shane Willis (Prince Albert); 8. Darryl LaPlante (Moose Jaw); 9. Mike McBain (Red Deer); 10. Chad Wilchinski (Regina)

...

Goaltenders: 1. Aaron MacDonald (Swift Current); 2. Doug Bonner (Seattle); 3. Paxton Scafer (Medicine Hat); 4. Tyler Love (Moose Jaw); 5. Scott Tollestrup (Lethbridge).
The final Central Scouting list, however, positioned Dube at #21 overall:
Quote:
Rink of Dreams; A sellout, more than 15,000 people, will view the drama -- dreams fulfilled, dreams dashed; NHL DRAFT DAY AT THE EDMONTON COLISEUM; 1995 NHL ENTRY DRAFT, D-DAY IN EDMONTON: [FINAL Edition]
Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 08 July 1995: G.8.

...

CENTRAL SCOUTING LIST

PLAYER; LEAGUE; JUNIOR TEAM

1. Bryan Berard; OHL; Detroit

2. Wade Redden; WHL; Brandon

3. Chad Kilger; OHL; Kingston

4. Daymond Langdow; WHL; Tri-City

5. Steve Kelly; WHL; Prince Albert

6. Kyle McLaren; WHL; Tacoma

7. Shane Doan; WHL; Kamloops

8. Terry Ryan; WHL; Tri-City

9. Jay McKee; OHL; Niagara Falls

10. Petr Sykora; IHL; Detroit

11. Brad Church; WHL; Prince Albert

12. Marc Chouinard; QMJHL; Beauport

...

14. Denis Gauthier Jr.; QMJHL; Drummondville

15. Christian Laflamme; QMJHL; Beauport

16. Jason Doig; QMJHL; Laval

...

20. Donald MacLean; QMJHL; Beauport

21. Christian Dube; QMJHL; Sherbrooke

...

24. Jarome Iginla; WHL; Kamloops
Of course, he ended up being drafted 39th overall in the 1995 NHL Entry Draft. Upon returning to the QMJHL after being drafted, he had a dominant season in which he was named the CHL's top player:
Quote:
Dube surprise choice Edges out Iginla as Canada's top junior
The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 14 May 1996: C.12.

Dube surprise choice Edges out Iginla as Canada's top junior

Tuesday, May 14, 1996

PETERBOROUGH, Ont. -- Canadian Press PETERBOROUGH, Ont. Christian Dube of the Sherbrooke Faucons was named Canada's junior hockey player of the year yesterday in a surprise selection at the Canadian Hockey League awards.

Dube beat out his more celebrated teammate from Canada's 1995 world junior championship team, Jarome Iginla of the Kamloops Blazers, along with Alyn McCauley of the Ottawa 67s.

Dube, a Sherbrooke native who was the New York Rangers' first pick, 39th overall, in the 1995 NHL entry draft, scored 52 goals and added 93 assists for the Faucons this season.

The 19-year-old was also a key member of Canada's world junior team, which won a fourth consecutive world title in the Boston-area tournament this January.

...

Defenceman Joe Thornton, 16, of the Soo Greyhounds was named the CHL's top rookie, beating out defenceman Chris Phillips of the Prince Albert Raiders, who ironically was named the top draft prospect in this year's crop of NHL-eligible players.
It's difficult to determine why Dube dropped to 39th overall. He was ranked 21st overall by Central Scouting just prior to the 1995 NHL Entry Draft, so he wasn't exactly seen as one of the best players available; he was projected to be a mid-to-late first round pick, and sometimes players ranked around those positions just drop to the second round unexpectedly. There seemed to be an overall lack of confidence in the QMJHL's talent pool, however.

Considering Jason Doig and Christian Laflamme, the two top QMJHL prospects at the midway point, also dropped, I think it indicates some uncertainty about players from the QMJHL that year as well in comparison with players from the other leagues at the time. The first skater from the QMJHL to be drafted in 1995 was Denis Gauthier at 20th overall. The second-highest QMJHL skater selected in the draft that year was Georges Laraque at 31st overall. Even Marc Chouinard, ranked 12th on the final Central Scouting list, fell to the second round -- 32nd overall.

Here's the final draft list from the 1995 NHL Entry Draft:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1995e.html
Quote:
Works Cited

"10 Quebecers Invited to Junior Camp." The Gazette: 0. Jun 20 1995. ProQuest. Web. 25 Oct. 2013 .

"Briefly." The Ottawa Citizen: 0. Sep 20 1995. ProQuest. Web. 25 Oct. 2013 .

"Dube Surprise Choice Edges Out Iginla as Canada's Top Junior." The Globe and Mail: 0. May 14 1996. ProQuest. Web. 25 Oct. 2013 .

"MAJOR JUNIOR: Rivers CHL Player of Month." The Ottawa Citizen: 0. Mar 09 1994. ProQuest. Web. 25 Oct. 2013 .

"NHL Central Scouting Bureau Rankings." Toronto Star: 0. Dec 17 1994. ProQuest. Web. 25 Oct. 2013 .

"Rink of Dreams; A Sellout, More than 15,000 People, Will View the Drama -- Dreams Fulfilled, Dreams Dashed; NHL DRAFT DAY AT THE EDMONTON COLISEUM; 1995 NHL ENTRY DRAFT, D-DAY IN EDMONTON." Edmonton Journal: 0. Jul 08 1995. ProQuest. Web. 25 Oct. 2013 .

"Rusedski in Form on Grass." The Gazette: 0. Jun 16 1994. ProQuest. Web. 25 Oct. 2013 .


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 10-25-2013 at 02:21 AM.
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10-25-2013, 02:09 AM
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Sticks and Pucks
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Thank you! You posted the exact type of information that I was looking for. Interesting to see he was only 5'11" at the draft. Perhaps that played a role in him falling into the second round?

I must say it's also interesting to see guys like Jason Doig, Christian Laflamme and Brad Church ranked so high in December 1994. Church was even higher than Steve Kelly back then. Also interesting to see Iginla at 24 in CSS Final Rankings, yet he shot up to 11th on draft day.

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10-25-2013, 10:28 AM
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diligent_d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstOverallLine View Post
I must say it's also interesting to see guys like Jason Doig, Christian Laflamme and Brad Church ranked so high in December 1994. Church was even higher than Steve Kelly back then. Also interesting to see Iginla at 24 in CSS Final Rankings, yet he shot up to 11th on draft day.
Yeah, I had to look up Brad Church from that list. Drafted 17th overall and only played two games with his parent club. That always amazes me, when a team selects a player in the first round and the guy plays less than a handful of games in the NHL.

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10-25-2013, 12:04 PM
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Interesting player. His father as well playing pro and a not dissimilar path. Played for his hometown Sherbrooke Castors in Jr, 1970/71 scoring 71G & wracking up 66A's. Went on to play 57 NHL & 148 WHA games over the next decade while also playing in the NAHL (The WHA's top farm system) and AHL where in his last season in North America playing for the Nova Scotia Voyageurs in 79/80 scored 41G's with 61A's before moving to Switzerland where he played for a number of years & where his son was born & grew up playing hockey in his earliest years..... there was also another Dube of Sherbrooke, Gilles Dube, not sure if any relation (fairly common name but still, might be related?) who played briefly for the Canadiens & Red Wings (2 games, winning the Stanley Cup with Detroit) in the late 40's & early 50's. Had a decade long career mostly in the AHL & QHL where he enjoyed several successful seasons. Couple of years ago, Mike Ilitch of Detroit bought all of the still living players from that Red Wings team Stanley Cup Rings as they hadnt been awarded them back in the day, Gilles included despite his very short & brief tenure with the team. Names on the Cup, member of the team, classy move by Ilitch.

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10-25-2013, 12:14 PM
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Ohashi_Jouzu
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Kinda funny to see Donald MacLean at #20 on that list, just above Dube at #21. Went to school and played with him back in the day. I think he's coaching somewhere overseas at the moment.

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10-25-2013, 02:46 PM
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You know, I liked him. Loved how he played at the World Juniors. For whatever reason couldn't hack it in the NHL, but has been playing in Switzerland forever. I don't know, it is hard to imagine he wouldn't have been able to crack an NHL roster especially post lockout.

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10-25-2013, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Kinda funny to see Donald MacLean at #20 on that list, just above Dube at #21. Went to school and played with him back in the day. I think he's coaching somewhere overseas at the moment.
I remember him scoring 56 goals with Grand Rapids in the A, years later. He earned a brief call-up with Detroit when half the team was injured, but they didn't give him a serious look. Obvious skills as a trigger man, but the pace of the NHL game was apparently too much for him.

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10-25-2013, 07:20 PM
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Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diligent_d View Post
Yeah, I had to look up Brad Church from that list. Drafted 17th overall and only played two games with his parent club. That always amazes me, when a team selects a player in the first round and the guy plays less than a handful of games in the NHL.
Not sure what you are comparing Church too but the track record for 1st round success was quite a bit less back then than it has become lately.

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10-25-2013, 09:08 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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was he related to yanick dube? another WJC legend, but you knew with his size he'd never make it to the bigs.

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10-25-2013, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
was he related to yanick dube? another WJC legend, but you knew with his size he'd never make it to the bigs.
Not according to the wiki page of "NHL Relations" (yep, exists). Dube a fairly common surname in Quebec.

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10-26-2013, 01:04 AM
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Interesting tidbit, I believe Dube's trade to Hull in 96-97 is now the reason there are no (official) cash deals in the QMJHL.

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10-30-2013, 05:09 AM
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I thought the knock against Dube was that his skating in traffic was bad and he could not read the play to well

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11-01-2013, 02:47 AM
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Domhnall Dubh
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Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
I thought the knock against Dube was that his skating in traffic was bad and he could not read the play to well
I remember the latter, don't remember the former at all. I thought he skated very well in traffic. That Hull team was so good even Andreas Lilja had a point a game. Pavel Rosa was scary good.

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11-02-2013, 09:37 AM
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Dube wasn't a good NHL player. Neil Smith hyped him up but I can't recall one shift that impressed me. At least Daniel Goneau had a nice month before vanishing

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11-02-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Domhnall Dubh View Post
I remember the latter, don't remember the former at all. I thought he skated very well in traffic. That Hull team was so good even Andreas Lilja had a point a game. Pavel Rosa was scary good.
I dont know. Sometimes it takes such offensive talent at a lower level even to become a defensive defenseman in the NHL. You wont be able to get the puck out of the zone if you dont at least have that. Not that i find him on their roster.

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11-03-2013, 08:44 AM
  #17
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The Rangers overemphasized him building up muscle mass to the point where it affected his skating. His development never really recovered from that.

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11-06-2013, 03:17 PM
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Domhnall Dubh
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I dont know. Sometimes it takes such offensive talent at a lower level even to become a defensive defenseman in the NHL. You wont be able to get the puck out of the zone if you dont at least have that. Not that i find him on their roster.
Lol, I meant fake Lilja, Peter Worrell.

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11-08-2013, 12:41 AM
  #19
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I seem to recall Dube having a very impressive camp/pre-season with the Rangers and was being hyped up so damn much as if he was the next Pat LaFontaine. It seemed common for them to overhype their young players though, same thing happened with Vladimir Vorobiev, and they also thought Niklas Sundstrom would be a star. Of course the future top line center they let get away quickly wound up being Marc Savard.

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11-08-2013, 02:54 AM
  #20
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Dube grew up in Switzerland and was viewed as soft and not terribly competitive, and likely to return to Europe for an easy paycheck there. And that take was correct - bailed on the NHL at age 22.

Also had a poor first stride and was a bit of a clunky skater.

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