HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2013-2014 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-02-2013, 06:24 AM
  #851
Whitesnake
Mediocre Stability
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,576
vCash: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Everybody is entitled to his opinion but that's what I got on the Knights thread
Slowly starting to be in Marc the Habs fan camp....starting to be concerned. Again....worst stats out of the first 2 rounds of the 2013. Adjustment or no....it is a concern. No need to talk too much in advance, as we keep saying, we all saw what his potential could look like in preseason and that was great to see.....But for a guy like that, I mean, as big as he is, points should come by. He should be able to be much better statswise EVEN if he doesn't play well. Now...seems that he doesn't play well AND the stats aren't there......

But let's wait a little.....Grant....you need to intervene here. Pull out a few infos about the kid can you? Any chance we know what the Habs brass are thinking at this time? Is there anybody with the kid talking to him right now like Lapointe? I'd send Mellanby too....big guy, power forward, maybe a few pointers by him would be great.

Whitesnake is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 08:07 AM
  #852
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,934
vCash: 500
I'm as concerned about his ice time as his production. He's getting bottom 6 minutes.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 09:24 AM
  #853
That
Registered User
 
That's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
Watch the game instead of talking out of your ass. He played well.
This.

McCarron played a good game last night, certainly outplayed Crisp. He started multiple rushes and was a good net presence. At one point he ended up going one-on-one with a defender and blew past him with a powerforward-esque move. He got the goalie down and out, but his teammate whiffed on the follow up.

I'm not concerned about his lack of production yet. He's playing injured and in a new league in which he's played a grand total of 13 games. He certainly could be a lot better, but he's still quite raw and has lots of time to improve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'm as concerned about his ice time as his production. He's getting bottom 6 minutes.
I'm not. It's the Knights were talking about. Even strength ice time is usually distributed quite even between the lines. Dale Hunter loves to roll all the lines since he has the depth to do so.

That is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 09:45 AM
  #854
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 66,539
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But let's wait a little.....Grant....you need to intervene here. Pull out a few infos about the kid can you? Any chance we know what the Habs brass are thinking at this time? Is there anybody with the kid talking to him right now like Lapointe? I'd send Mellanby too....big guy, power forward, maybe a few pointers by him would be great.
I'd love info on what they are thinking too. I doubt when Bergevin and Timmins were high fiving at the draft table they were expecting an under 0.5 PPG production in the OHL in his first 13 games...they have to be at least somewhat concerned.

Let's not forget that he played with Bournival in 2 of those pre-season games, considering how both players have played since then, it's pretty easy to conclude Bournival probably helped McCarron stick out...

Marc the Habs Fan is online now  
Old
11-02-2013, 10:10 AM
  #855
Et le But
Registered User
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsoil View Post
Crisp> Mccarron
DLR > collburg and Mccarron
Not saying it wont change but maybe its the underdog in me but i love the DLR and crisp picks so far.
Crisp = Overager who has been in the OHL since 2010 (though he missed a season to injury, he still has over 100 games in the league).

McCarron = Spent the last year playing against weak competition in the USHL that physically couldn't keep up with him. Was until this point on the slower, NCAA development track.

I'm feeling hell of a lot better about the Crisp pick than I was, and he's certainly keeping his possibility of being an NHL-quality grinder alive. But what he's doing really is unexceptional, and this is exactly why context is important. He still won't make the NHL if he skates like this.

I really don't know what people expected from McCarron. I heard the same things here about Tinordi in his first OHL season, and though the situation isn't entirely the same, we knew McCarron was a project, when you draft a 6'5" scorer that late in the draft, you need to know what you are getting.

Et le But is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 10:13 AM
  #856
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,934
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Crisp = Overager who has been in the OHL since 2010 (though he missed a season to injury, he still has over 100 games in the league).

McCarron = Spent the last year playing against weak competition in the USHL that physically couldn't keep up with him. Was until this point on the slower, NCAA development track.

I'm feeling hell of a lot better about the Crisp pick than I was, and he's certainly keeping his possibility of being an NHL-quality grinder alive. But what he's doing really is unexceptional, and this is exactly why context is important. He still won't make the NHL if he skates like this.

I really don't know what people expected from McCarron. I heard the same things here about Tinordi in his first OHL season, and though the situation isn't entirely the same, we knew McCarron was a project, when you draft a 6'5" scorer that late in the draft, you need to know what you are getting.
Crisp is 19 so he isn't an overager.

USHL is not far below the CHL leagues. You make it sound like it's a huge jump and it's not.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 10:15 AM
  #857
Tim Wallach
Registered User
 
Tim Wallach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Crisp = Overager who has been in the OHL since 2010 (though he missed a season to injury, he still has over 100 games in the league).
Once again for clarity, Crisp is NOT an overager. He's a 1994. Overagers are 1993s.

Tim Wallach is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 10:27 AM
  #858
Whitesnake
Mediocre Stability
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,576
vCash: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
McCarron = Spent the last year playing against weak competition in the USHL that physically couldn't keep up with him. Was until this point on the slower, NCAA development track.
JT Compher was also in the USHL...now with Michigan in the NCAA, 0 goals but 5 points in 7 games. Hudson Fasching....8 points in 6 games in the NCAA. Tyler Motte, 4 goals in 7 games etc. Taylor Cammerata, 6 points in 6 games, Jake Guentzel, 5 points in 7 games etc. Out of all the prospects drafted from the USHL last year, he is the one that is struggling the most with John Hayden who though only played 3 games with only 1 point. But all of those are doing in the NCAA...so where would it be tougher? NCAA or CHL? Like I said before, surely trying to figure out the type of player he is and want to become. Still growing in his body is never easy too. Yet, I would have expected a little more.

Whitesnake is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 01:46 PM
  #859
montreal
Moderator
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Kiribati
Posts: 29,212
vCash: 500
Watched some of the Michigan game last night, thought Bennett had a good game, was very mobile as usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I'd love info on what they are thinking too. I doubt when Bergevin and Timmins were high fiving at the draft table they were expecting an under 0.5 PPG production in the OHL in his first 13 games...they have to be at least somewhat concerned..
I'm sure Timmins and Bergevin would be smart enough to know not to expect much just a few weeks into the transition from the USNDTP to the OHL. At this point in the season, best to just sit back and see how things go over the next couple months, it's a long season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
USHL is not far below the CHL leagues. You make it sound like it's a huge jump and it's not.
I would say the opposite, though I haven't watched a USHL game in some time, I'd say it's a very big jump. How many USHL games do you catch a year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I still say he'll be better off converting to RW.
How do you think he's looked so far this year?

montreal is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 04:01 PM
  #860
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
How do you think he's looked so far this year?
How he's looked so far and whether he would be better converting to RW are two different topics... but you may be right in thinking he will develop into a solid NHL defenseman.

HCH is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 04:31 PM
  #861
That
Registered User
 
That's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,993
vCash: 500
Personally, I don't want to see Thrower moved to forward. He's been terrific in my viewings thus far. He was poor, sometimes downright awful, in his own zone last season, but that's not the case anymore. He's been rock solid in his own zone. The difference in his poise with and without the puck has been night and day. He appears to make the safe play most of the time and doesn't run around chasing the puck anymore. All that without sacrificing his offensive flair and gritty game (he still has penalty troubles though).

Unrelated, but Gregoire needs to be mentioned. He currently sits fourth in QMJHL goals with 14, sixth in QMJHL points with 27, and second in QMJHL powerplay goals with 7. Gregoire is riding a 12 game point streak with nine goals and 10 assists over the span. He had 62 points combined in the previous two seasons, he's on pace to destroy that mark in just one season.

Typically, when you see a player produce like Gregoire has, they begin to focus strictly on point production (especially with junior players), which takes away from other aspects of their game. Not Gregoire though, he's been playing his regular very intense, tough as nails brand of hockey. He's been a very pleasant surprise this season.

That is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 05:24 PM
  #862
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,593
vCash: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
How do you think he's looked so far this year?
I'm sure he's been great but my comment is more based on what I feel is likely to translate to the next level. To me, at his size and how he seems to utilize that offensive skill set, RW seems like a more likely route to make the NHL for the Habs. Granted this is mostly based on last season but his position can be pretty bad too.

Maybe it's just the games I saw but he's not quick at getting his shot off on the point nor is it that dangerously heavy/accurate. This gives me doubt of him being a PP presence on the point. Puck moving can be really good and he seems to love to carry the puck. However, I don't think he does either at a high enough level that he'd be doing it well at the Pro level. Fighting skill is undeniable. I don't he'll have any issue being an upper end middle weight in the next level.

I hope I'm wrong as he'd obviously be more valuable as a D if he manages to translate his game to the pro level. However, my amateur scouting opinion would be that the likelihood of him being a NHLer would be much higher if he moved to RW full time. Instead of going through that swap after he reaches the AHL, I think it might accelerate his development if he started it in junior first. I would love to hear more opinions on this though. Though people soured on him last season as a prospect, what I feel makes him unique that a Bozon struggling is that he might be able to have a solid career as a winger.

Watsatheo is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 05:49 PM
  #863
dackelljuneaubulis02
Registered User
 
dackelljuneaubulis02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Wow, Hudon is on FIRE to start this game and finally gets rewarded with a goal. At least his 4th scoring chance in about 3 shifts.
I was a little worried about him at the beginning of the season. Hope his back is fine and he can have a good showing at the WJCs.

dackelljuneaubulis02 is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 06:06 PM
  #864
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 66,539
vCash: 567
Reway back in the lineup, only missed 1 game with whatever was that injury.

Marc the Habs Fan is online now  
Old
11-02-2013, 07:07 PM
  #865
Habsoil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fort mac
Country: Canada
Posts: 404
vCash: 500
First off i dont think Crisp is an overager.
Secondly i think Crisp will exceed his draft potential by far.
After most predictions had him at best a 4th line grinder.
I think he will reach that potential and more.

Mccarron as a first rounder should have top 6 potential, but hoping at least he can reach the 4th line grinder status.

I ll be the first to admit that i didnt track mccarron or crisp until we drafted them.
But i truely love crisp now, point production aside , hes a great kid.

I believe the best pick of this draft will be Jacob, might not throw up a crapload of points but brings it every game. Love this pick.

Collburg is collburg, was hoping fir more from him but i still have faith he will turn it around. But if he do turn it around i dont think he will be as valuable to us as Jacob!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Crisp = Overager who has been in the OHL since 2010 (though he missed a season to injury, he still has over 100 games in the league).

McCarron = Spent the last year playing against weak competition in the USHL that physically couldn't keep up with him. Was until this point on the slower, NCAA development track.

I'm feeling hell of a lot better about the Crisp pick than I was, and he's certainly keeping his possibility of being an NHL-quality grinder alive. But what he's doing really is unexceptional, and this is exactly why context is important. He still won't make the NHL if he skates like this.

I really don't know what people expected from McCarron. I heard the same things here about Tinordi in his first OHL season, and though the situation isn't entirely the same, we knew McCarron was a project, when you draft a 6'5" scorer that late in the draft, you need to know what you are getting.

Habsoil is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 07:15 PM
  #866
Franck
En enda känsla...
 
Franck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gothenburg
Country: Sweden
Posts: 9,293
vCash: 50
Okay, just to make it 10000% clear, Crisp is not an overager.

Franck is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 07:21 PM
  #867
Grant McCagg
@grantmccagg
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,693
vCash: 500
I have no answers for McCarron's cold streak besides his injury. Obviously it's affected him somewhat. I don't think the parent club is panicking in any regard..it's early, he's injured, and he's in good hands. The Hunters haven't thrown him to the wolves, and I'm fine with that, especially with a shoulder injury. I suspect once he's 100 per cent he'll get time with the big guns, and the points will come.

Grant McCagg is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 07:38 PM
  #868
montreal
Moderator
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Kiribati
Posts: 29,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
How he's looked so far and whether he would be better converting to RW are two different topics... but you may be right in thinking he will develop into a solid NHL defenseman.
But still related, imo if someone has been watching him play this season, they might be less likely to suggest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I'm sure he's been great but my comment is more based on what I feel is likely to translate to the next level. To me, at his size and how he seems to utilize that offensive skill set, RW seems like a more likely route to make the NHL for the Habs. Granted this is mostly based on last season but his position can be pretty bad too.

Maybe it's just the games I saw but he's not quick at getting his shot off on the point nor is it that dangerously heavy/accurate. This gives me doubt of him being a PP presence on the point. Puck moving can be really good and he seems to love to carry the puck. However, I don't think he does either at a high enough level that he'd be doing it well at the Pro level. Fighting skill is undeniable. I don't he'll have any issue being an upper end middle weight in the next level.

I hope I'm wrong as he'd obviously be more valuable as a D if he manages to translate his game to the pro level. However, my amateur scouting opinion would be that the likelihood of him being a NHLer would be much higher if he moved to RW full time. Instead of going through that swap after he reaches the AHL, I think it might accelerate his development if he started it in junior first. I would love to hear more opinions on this though. Though people soured on him last season as a prospect, what I feel makes him unique that a Bozon struggling is that he might be able to have a solid career as a winger.
I think he's got a good point shot, he knows how to fire it and usually I find he's usually accurate. I would be shocked to see him moved to the wing, but we'll see how it goes for him at the AHL level, personally I think he'll be fine on defense as he still has several years to work on things. Have liked from what I've seen from him this year so I would just wait and see how it continues to go for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Reway back in the lineup, only missed 1 game with whatever was that injury.
He got rocked the other night with a huge open ice hit. He bounced right back up but I wonder if that hit had anything to do with him being out.

montreal is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 07:43 PM
  #869
habsprospects
Irresponsible User
 
habsprospects's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
He got rocked the other night with a huge open ice hit. He bounced right back up but I wonder if that hit had anything to do with him being out.
He went to the hospital because of abdominal pain.

__________________

Habs Prospects website
habsprospects is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 08:14 AM
  #870
montreal
Moderator
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Kiribati
Posts: 29,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsprospects View Post
He went to the hospital because of abdominal pain.
I knew that he returned from the hit but I never ended up finishing watching the rest of the game so I thought maybe the hit did it as he got rocked.

montreal is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 11:00 AM
  #871
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
But still related, imo if someone has been watching him play this season, they might be less likely to suggest.

I think he's got a good point shot, he knows how to fire it and usually I find he's usually accurate. I would be shocked to see him moved to the wing, but we'll see how it goes for him at the AHL level, personally I think he'll be fine on defense as he still has several years to work on things. Have liked from what I've seen from him this year so I would just wait and see how it continues to go for him.
Can't disagree with that assessment.

HCH is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 11:08 AM
  #872
QuebecPride
@Etienne_Pouliot
 
QuebecPride's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MTL/Sherbrooke , Qc
Country: Martinique
Posts: 3,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by That View Post
Personally, I don't want to see Thrower moved to forward. He's been terrific in my viewings thus far. He was poor, sometimes downright awful, in his own zone last season, but that's not the case anymore. He's been rock solid in his own zone. The difference in his poise with and without the puck has been night and day. He appears to make the safe play most of the time and doesn't run around chasing the puck anymore. All that without sacrificing his offensive flair and gritty game (he still has penalty troubles though).

Unrelated, but Gregoire needs to be mentioned. He currently sits fourth in QMJHL goals with 14, sixth in QMJHL points with 27, and second in QMJHL powerplay goals with 7. Gregoire is riding a 12 game point streak with nine goals and 10 assists over the span. He had 62 points combined in the previous two seasons, he's on pace to destroy that mark in just one season.

Typically, when you see a player produce like Gregoire has, they begin to focus strictly on point production (especially with junior players), which takes away from other aspects of their game. Not Gregoire though, he's been playing his regular very intense, tough as nails brand of hockey. He's been a very pleasant surprise this season.
I support this motion, Grégoire is having a great first tier of the year. Veilleux seems to have done wonders to his confidence.

QuebecPride is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 12:48 PM
  #873
reffree
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: ste-justine québec
Posts: 2,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Crisp = Overager who has been in the OHL since 2010 (though he missed a season to injury, he still has over 100 games in the league).

McCarron = Spent the last year playing against weak competition in the USHL that physically couldn't keep up with him. Was until this point on the slower, NCAA development track.

I'm feeling hell of a lot better about the Crisp pick than I was, and he's certainly keeping his possibility of being an NHL-quality grinder alive. But what he's doing really is unexceptional, and this is exactly why context is important. He still won't make the NHL if he skates like this.

I really don't know what people expected from McCarron. I heard the same things here about Tinordi in his first OHL season, and though the situation isn't entirely the same, we knew McCarron was a project, when you draft a 6'5" scorer that late in the draft, you need to know what you are getting.
And he still only had 10 pts in 19 USHL games to show for it ... I'm sure being 11th on the fowards scoring race with London is below expectation, but expectation should not have been higher than a 45-50 pts season at best imho.

reffree is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 01:34 PM
  #874
Et le But
Registered User
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reffree View Post
And he still only had 10 pts in 19 USHL games to show for it ... I'm sure being 11th on the fowards scoring race with London is below expectation, but expectation should not have been higher than a 45-50 pts season at best imho.
He was drafted for his skillset more than anything he has actually shown production wise. There's certain parallels with David Fischer and why drafting for size and other combine results tends to produce plenty of busts...but really, it's too early to say anything about him.

He could be another Fischer (or Jessiman), but let's give him at least a year before we conclude anything about him.

Et le But is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 02:07 PM
  #875
reffree
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: ste-justine québec
Posts: 2,221
vCash: 500
Of course it's way too early to make a judgment and it will still be the case for a few years.

reffree is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.