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Old
11-01-2013, 11:34 PM
  #51
4thline4life
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Read what I said again and tell me where I declared Simmonds, Schenn, and Couturier "very good players." I'll even throw Voracek in there to further my point.



Though your first sentence summarizes this perfectly.
You're right, I read your post wrong...my bad.

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Old
11-01-2013, 11:38 PM
  #52
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it's not all about points, Richards and Carter were valuable because they were VERY good defensive forwards as well. there is no forward on this current team that can help defensively at all. we are in so much need of good 2-way forwards it's ridiculous.

two years ago we had a #1 D (Pronger), two snipers (Carter and JVR) and one of the best 2-way forwards in the game (Richards). now? we have nothing. obviously it's not Homer's fault that Pronger got hurt. but losing 2 snipers (which this team desperately needs right now) and a top 2-way forward is a massive loss. and Homer is 100% to blame for that.

i didn't mind the Carter deal cause we had JVR to take over the sniper role, but then Homer went and traded him too. now we have no one that can score.

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11-01-2013, 11:45 PM
  #53
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I am really doubting this fan base will ever move beyond the Richards and Carter trades. We really all just need to move on.

Time to admit we are a horrible hockey team.

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11-01-2013, 11:51 PM
  #54
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I am really doubting this fan base will ever move beyond the Richards and Carter trades. We really all just need to move on.

Time to admit we are a horrible hockey team.
The fanbase will move on when a new era beings. This is, for all intents and purposes, the "post-trade" era. This team is currently defined by those trades because those trades built this team, while also building a SC winner out in LA as well. Those are the kind of pivotal moves that have an effect for a very, very long time, so it's naturally gonna take a while for the fans to move on.

The first step will probably need to be Holmgren stepping down. He is tied to those trades now, so while he's running the show the team will be tied to them.

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Old
11-02-2013, 12:02 AM
  #55
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Holmgren needs to be fired.

I don't necessarily think that berube is an issue, but I think we need the sort of coach that has a lot of experience and another perspective.

Hartnell and Timoen both need to go.

Gustafsson is just not going to be a full time nhl defenseman as much as you all want him to be

Simmonds provides virtually nothing except for garbage goals on the power play. He's a constant turnover machine who can't play defense and a 'power forward' who can't win a board battle.

I'm really starting to worry about both of the Schenns. I'm afraid Brayden won't ever be more than a 3rd line C.

I really don't know what they can do with this team other than completely blowing it up and starting over. Something is just wrong with this team and it's beyond the realm of simply being patient. There's a problem with the mentality these players have.

It's like we have a team of *******s that no one else wanted and now they're all just laughing at us.

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Old
11-02-2013, 12:05 AM
  #56
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They probably would make no difference, honestly. We have problems all over the team, and two 60 point players wouldn't fix them.

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11-02-2013, 04:48 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
I'd personally go back and undo the trades, keep JvR as well and develop Bobrovsky the correct way...

But hindsight is always 20/20.
Bob would of never succeeded here. he is a russian goalie and can not handle such a hockey market. we saw that issue when he was in the city. Not to mention when he left and gave the following:

“Philly is a severe city for the goalies. Bryz was under pressure and I fully understand him. Medias’ and fans’ opinions weigh too much in Philly. Sometimes those are contradictory.”

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11-02-2013, 05:59 PM
  #58
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i could only imagine how much of a ***** richards would have been if only carter was traded ....im pretty sure you had to move richie once the carter move went thru...i was ready for carter to go,but was in shock when richards was sent packing too.....with that said,im still not claiming defeat just yet

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Old
11-02-2013, 07:55 PM
  #59
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you guys made simple and plain the mistake many lower end teams had made before
Edmonton as example.
A goalie not something worthless or nescessary.
You need at least a good goalie to play constant at top level.
The arguments were the same as Edmonton or Islanders or Toronto had for years.
There are plenty of goelies available at UFA, it's enough to offer 5th rounder for top goalies etc...

Just collecting offensive players is doing absolutely nothing.
You guys just learn the hard way that a hockey rink has 2 ends with a goal.
And of course that is effecting your offensive players.
I always read they are not producing, they are not stepping up.
But it is really difficult to do something when your defense is completely overrun on a daily base.
Ask the Oilers......... they thought they have top end offensive players and simply have to score more than they get.
Problem is that other teams have Doughtys, Webers, Charas who are able to completely shut down these guys.

Your GM made a huge mistake when throwing big bucks at Bryzgalov who is mediocre at best.
If he would have gone after Bernier you still would have some of your former great guys.

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11-02-2013, 08:40 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
you guys made simple and plain the mistake many lower end teams had made before
Edmonton as example.
A goalie not something worthless or nescessary.
You need at least a good goalie to play constant at top level.
The arguments were the same as Edmonton or Islanders or Toronto had for years.
There are plenty of goelies available at UFA, it's enough to offer 5th rounder for top goalies etc...

Just collecting offensive players is doing absolutely nothing.
You guys just learn the hard way that a hockey rink has 2 ends with a goal.
And of course that is effecting your offensive players.
I always read they are not producing, they are not stepping up.
But it is really difficult to do something when your defense is completely overrun on a daily base.
Ask the Oilers......... they thought they have top end offensive players and simply have to score more than they get.
Problem is that other teams have Doughtys, Webers, Charas who are able to completely shut down these guys.

Your GM made a huge mistake when throwing big bucks at Bryzgalov who is mediocre at best.
If he would have gone after Bernier you still would have some of your former great guys.
Doubtful. The team was in a situation where they needed to blow apart a large chunk of the team.

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Old
11-02-2013, 09:15 PM
  #61
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We're still talking about this?

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Old
11-03-2013, 12:11 AM
  #62
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Would you believe that in the last 10 games, we have a better record than 9 different teams!!!

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11-03-2013, 12:37 AM
  #63
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^

... and the Flyers are only 6 points out of a playoff spot.

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11-03-2013, 12:54 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiper the Fox View Post
yes........we definitely lost

Homer's gotta go...........he single handedly destroyed this team
can't believe I spent money on gamecenter this year to watch this pathetic team play
i'll still watch .........in disgust and horror but still watch because they are my team but my god...........

get rid of homer
you can only screw up so much..........and I think so much has just arrived
OMG, this team is brutal
big named talent .... big named salaries...... and a whole lot of losing

If I was guarantee xxx MILLION dollar per year, guess I would work hard anymore either
lol

berube is not the guy to get this team going
wonder what iron mike keenan is doing ? ?
I've seen worse ideas. He would be a better strategist than Berube for one thing.

Here's my take on this: it's not that it's Richards and Carter going away per se that has hurt the Flyers, it's the fact that there's been too many trades and at the end of the day it kills the team chemistry. Look at the Wings: how many trades they have made in the last 5 years? Not a lot. Bottom line, no matter what, they keep their players! They teach them, they grow into that team's culture and they follow the company line. The only UFAs they've gotten are freakin old man Bertuzzi and Stephen Weiss.

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11-03-2013, 01:07 AM
  #65
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The only UFAs they've gotten are freakin old man Bertuzzi and Stephen Weiss.
Don't forget old man Alfredson!

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Old
11-03-2013, 08:37 AM
  #66
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Looking back, it really does seem ridiculous for an organization to blow up the core of their team 1 year after coming with in 2 wins of a cup. It really came down to an over anxious owner listening a little too much to the meat head sports writers of the city.

The biggest miscalculation on Homers part was how much he valued Pronger. They thought they could pass these moves off as hockey moves and not rebuilding because they had so much faith in their D at the time. Problem was, after Pronger went down, those move became rebuilding moves...which we are seeing now.

My thoughts on those trades is the same as it was back then. I love the Carter trade, I hated the Richards trade. The team was lacking natural wingers...and Carter had been pretty inconsistent for them post 09. The return they got was killer, and really helped the team moving forward. Adding Richards on top of it? That was just too much core to give up at one time. Schenn and Simmonds are nice players, but they dont bring what Richards did. I also think Homer has over valued Schenn from the beginning...and unfortunately that may have cost us JVR too.

JVR-Giroux-(Vinny or other FA)
Hartnell-Richards-Vorecek
Read-Couturier-Downie

That top 9 would be so sick right now.

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Old
11-03-2013, 08:57 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mota View Post
Looking back, it really does seem ridiculous for an organization to blow up the core of their team 1 year after coming with in 2 wins of a cup. It really came down to an over anxious owner listening a little too much to the meat head sports writers of the city.

The biggest miscalculation on Homers part was how much he valued Pronger. They thought they could pass these moves off as hockey moves and not rebuilding because they had so much faith in their D at the time. Problem was, after Pronger went down, those move became rebuilding moves...which we are seeing now.

My thoughts on those trades is the same as it was back then. I love the Carter trade, I hated the Richards trade. The team was lacking natural wingers...and Carter had been pretty inconsistent for them post 09. The return they got was killer, and really helped the team moving forward. Adding Richards on top of it? That was just too much core to give up at one time. Schenn and Simmonds are nice players, but they dont bring what Richards did. I also think Homer has over valued Schenn from the beginning...and unfortunately that may have cost us JVR too.

JVR-Giroux-(Vinny or other FA)
Hartnell-Richards-Vorecek
Read-Couturier-Downie

That top 9 would be so sick right now.
Ughhh. And maybe, a la the butterfly effect, if the Richards trade never happened, pronger wouldn't have gotten hurt! Damn you homer, you ruined prongers career!

JVR-Giroux-Lecavalier
Hartnell-Richards-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Downie
Rinaldo-Hall-Raffl

Pronger-Streit
Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Gustafsson

Mason
Emery

#sorrow

It's amazing how different of a team this is with pronger on it. I guarantee These guys wouldn't be playing the unprofessional, uninspired slop of a game if pronger was in that locker room.

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Old
11-03-2013, 09:07 AM
  #68
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Even if those trades didn't go down it seems most on here would find something to ***** and moan about with Richie and Carts here, pick your poison,
Get over it, if the Flyers were sitting atop the division this year, the trades are just background noise
BUT since the Flyers suck right now (and yes most of last year) the Richards and Carter trades keep coming up
I'll admit that the Flyers lost the trade, IF people stop crying about it
I loved Richards on the Flyers, I hated to see him go it sucked, yeah there was a huge hole left here when he left
I think between B.Schenn and Couts we get back a lot of what Richie brought here, and I'm optomistic enough to believe B.Schenn can be just like Richie, but maybe I'm delusional
Richards or Carter are most likely never coming back to Philly to play
It is what it is

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Old
11-03-2013, 10:24 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
The biggest miscalculation on Homers part was how much he valued Pronger. They thought they could pass these moves off as hockey moves and not rebuilding because they had so much faith in their D at the time. Problem was, after Pronger went down, those move became rebuilding moves...which we are seeing now.
How can you possibly blame Homer for not knowing Pronger would be permanently injured?

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11-03-2013, 11:09 AM
  #70
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How can you possibly blame Homer for not knowing Pronger would be permanently injured?
I am not. Even if Pronger was healthy, I dont think the team was going to be as competitive right after the trades as they were before. By overvalue, I simply meant he liked Pronger enough to justify blowing up the core of the team.

Even if Pronger was healthy today, I am sure we would have seen some decline in his game. I just think it was too risky going all in on one player who was in the later stages of his career.

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11-03-2013, 11:21 AM
  #71
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I am not. Even if Pronger was healthy, I dont think the team was going to be as competitive right after the trades as they were before. By overvalue, I simply meant he liked Pronger enough to justify blowing up the core of the team.

Even if Pronger was healthy today, I am sure we would have seen some decline in his game. I just think it was too risky going all in on one player who was in the later stages of his career.
He had trouble with his speed in 2010 and 2011! He most definitely wouldn't have been the same defenseman we've seen in the past. Would he still be a good defenseman, who brings a whole new dimension to the team? Absolutely. He's 39 right now, with him healthy, Homer keeps JvR and hopefully doesn't sign Streit (Don't want him, Kimmo and CP20 on the same roster. No youth!)

Hindsight people. Hindsight.

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11-03-2013, 11:23 AM
  #72
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I agree. I don't understand why we had to gut the team after one disappointing season following a SCF loss in the prior season. If we had held onto Carter, Richards, Gagne, JVR, and Bobrovsky, we'd be in a much better position than we are now. It's embarrassing that three of our former forwards won the Stanley Cup and the goalie won the Vezina immediately after we traded them. Meanwhile, we are in the basement of the league, bought out the prized free agent acquisition we signed with the money we freed up from the deals, fired our coach, and forced a young star into the captaincy before he was ready. I hate this team right now.

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Old
11-03-2013, 11:29 AM
  #73
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I agree. I don't understand why we had to gut the team after one disappointing season following a SCF loss in the prior season. If we had held onto Carter, Richards, Gagne, and Bobrovsky, we'd be in a much better position than we are now. It's embarrassing that the three forwards won the Stanley Cup and the goalie won the Vezina immediately after we traded them. Meanwhile, we are in the basement of the league, bought out the prized free agent acquisition we signed with the money we freed up from the deals, fired our coach, and forced a young star into the captaincy before he was ready. I hate this team right now.
I can't think of another team in NHL history that gutted their team after making it 2 wins within a cup and being the best team in the league for 3/4 the next season before getting hit by injuries. That disappointing season was only that because of how utterly dominant they looked the first half of that year.

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11-03-2013, 11:35 AM
  #74
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Ughhh. And maybe, a la the butterfly effect, if the Richards trade never happened, pronger wouldn't have gotten hurt! Damn you homer, you ruined prongers career!

JVR-Giroux-Lecavalier
Hartnell-Richards-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Downie
Rinaldo-Hall-Raffl

Pronger-Streit
Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Gustafsson

Mason
Emery

#sorrow

It's amazing how different of a team this is with pronger on it. I guarantee These guys wouldn't be playing the unprofessional, uninspired slop of a game if pronger was in that locker room.
Can we hire Pronger to literally just sit in the locker room and stare at people? Who's going to play lazy or sloppy when they know they're going to have to go back into the locker room and get mad dogged by Pronger?

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11-03-2013, 11:56 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by RespectTheMajor View Post
Even if those trades didn't go down it seems most on here would find something to ***** and moan about with Richie and Carts here, pick your poison,
Get over it, if the Flyers were sitting atop the division this year, the trades are just background noise
BUT since the Flyers suck right now (and yes most of last year) the Richards and Carter trades keep coming up
I'll admit that the Flyers lost the trade, IF people stop crying about it
I loved Richards on the Flyers, I hated to see him go it sucked, yeah there was a huge hole left here when he left
I think between B.Schenn and Couts we get back a lot of what Richie brought here, and I'm optomistic enough to believe B.Schenn can be just like Richie, but maybe I'm delusional
Richards or Carter are most likely never coming back to Philly to play
It is what it is
Well, yeah. If the trades worked out better and the team was still good, people wouldn't be too disappointed with them. But that's not what happened, so there is discontentment in the fanbase. We can't "get over it" because they're still affecting the franchise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIceman26 View Post
I can't think of another team in NHL history that gutted their team after making it 2 wins within a cup and being the best team in the league for 3/4 the next season before getting hit by injuries. That disappointing season was only that because of how utterly dominant they looked the first half of that year.
That too. It's not like they completely flamed out and missed the playoffs the next year- they won a round. And maybe they would have gotten more if they had a real goalie.

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